Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[mocat]

Personally, I think the only Big 12 school that's a threat to leave to the Big Ten is Missouri. 

When I go all 'conspiracy theory' on this, I think there are two grand plans at work by the Big Ten:

1) Go after schools in major markets to try and get the Big Ten Network on as many basic cable packages as possible ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
2) Dismantle the Big East to finally force Notre Dame's hand into joining the conference

Here's the deal...I'd venture to guess that if Notre Dame agreed to join the Big Ten tomorrow, it's all over.  Expansion talk done.  You now have the biggest national draw in all of college football under your umbrella.  Want to see ND games?  Put the BTN on your basic cable package or watch every Catholic camp out in front of their cable provider like it's an abortion clinic.

If they want to go to 16 teams, sack the Big East, take Rutgers (NJ/NY), Pitt (Pittsburgh), Syracuse (the true state school of NY), and watch the conference fall apart.  Tell ND that if they want to be relevant in any sport, including football, they better join now because it's their last chance.  Then, they'll round out the conference with Missouri and/or NU.  I don't think they'll take both.  And, frankly, given how NU is one of of the ruling parties of the Big 12, they'd probably rather stick around and party in a very weak North division.

Once MU bolts, and if CU bolts to the Pac-10 (which doesn't seem like a slam dunk considering their AD is a perennial mess), go out and get two of the following three (Utah, Memphis, Louisville).

Personally, as we kind of look at all of the scenarios, I don't think we'll be left without a chair...yet.  The domino effect happens if the SEC wants to retaliate, and given that they're more into getting money from a network as opposed to starting their own, we're safe for a few years.  The Big 12 can replace Missouri and Colorado.  It won't be a good replacement, but it can be done.

What NEEDS to happen is for the Big 12 and the Pac-10 to start talking about forming a network of our own.  We don't need to add teams to our conference as much as get a network together.  If the Pac-10 became the Pac-12, and they merged networks with the Big 12, we're talking about 24 schools covering nearly every state west of the Mississippi.  That would be enough content to keep a cable channel afloat and enough interest to probably get as much play as the BTN.  Sure, the payouts would be less, but I'm sure it would be more than all of these schools are capable of getting if they tried playing with the conference mixes.

going on 6 years strong, panj 

[CyberToothCat]

Is there any value to the idea of somehow creating a joint network with the ACC (which has been talking for years about wanting one)? The two conferences would remain separate in every other way, they would just pool all of their leftover Tier 3 content together to create a network that spans the eastern and central time zones with a bunch of valuable properties that people want to see. Tier 3 content for Texas and OU and FSU football, and Duke, KU, UNC basketball, not to mention ND. Plus all the other schools (Lville/Cuse Bball, BU/TCU/VT/Clem football, the Cats, etc).

ESPN already owns everything for the ACC. They own most of Big 12 basketball and all our best football games, plus the LHN. If we went with ESPN, this move would give them everything else and pretty much lock Fox out of the east coast, the south and the midwest. Fox would own portions of the rights for the teams around the Great Lakes and west coast (i.e., who cares).

How strong is the desire for a conf network in the Big 12? In the ACC? Is there any way the two conferences could work together well enough to make this viable? Does this create too much content for one network?

[KITNfury]

There is talk that all conferences join together and bargain together like pro sports. Seems like a good idea to me but I'm not qualified to say for sure.

But I've already stated why i don't think a network works for any conference except the sec and prolly big 10. They work now because you can essentially be forced to subscribe. That will be all but dead within 10 years

[Panjandrum]

There is talk that all conferences join together and bargain together like pro sports. Seems like a good idea to me but I'm not qualified to say for sure.

But I've already stated why i don't think a network works for any conference except the sec and prolly big 10. They work now because you can essentially be forced to subscribe. That will be all but dead within 10 years

That was was the model years and years ago. It may be worth picking back up.

FWIW, I want 12 teams, but I'm not sure who I want outside of Cincy. I don't want a network, but I am playing Devil's advocate.

I like our revenue model. I also liked 12 teams.  I can be talked into UConn because Big 12 basketball is great, and that would make it even better. But it's a net loss everywhere else.

[Panjandrum]

Personally, I think the only Big 12 school that's a threat to leave to the Big Ten is Missouri. 

When I go all 'conspiracy theory' on this, I think there are two grand plans at work by the Big Ten:

1) Go after schools in major markets to try and get the Big Ten Network on as many basic cable packages as possible ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
2) Dismantle the Big East to finally force Notre Dame's hand into joining the conference

Here's the deal...I'd venture to guess that if Notre Dame agreed to join the Big Ten tomorrow, it's all over.  Expansion talk done.  You now have the biggest national draw in all of college football under your umbrella.  Want to see ND games?  Put the BTN on your basic cable package or watch every Catholic camp out in front of their cable provider like it's an abortion clinic.

If they want to go to 16 teams, sack the Big East, take Rutgers (NJ/NY), Pitt (Pittsburgh), Syracuse (the true state school of NY), and watch the conference fall apart.  Tell ND that if they want to be relevant in any sport, including football, they better join now because it's their last chance.  Then, they'll round out the conference with Missouri and/or NU.  I don't think they'll take both.  And, frankly, given how NU is one of of the ruling parties of the Big 12, they'd probably rather stick around and party in a very weak North division.

Once MU bolts, and if CU bolts to the Pac-10 (which doesn't seem like a slam dunk considering their AD is a perennial mess), go out and get two of the following three (Utah, Memphis, Louisville).

Personally, as we kind of look at all of the scenarios, I don't think we'll be left without a chair...yet.  The domino effect happens if the SEC wants to retaliate, and given that they're more into getting money from a network as opposed to starting their own, we're safe for a few years.  The Big 12 can replace Missouri and Colorado.  It won't be a good replacement, but it can be done.

What NEEDS to happen is for the Big 12 and the Pac-10 to start talking about forming a network of our own.  We don't need to add teams to our conference as much as get a network together.  If the Pac-10 became the Pac-12, and they merged networks with the Big 12, we're talking about 24 schools covering nearly every state west of the Mississippi.  That would be enough content to keep a cable channel afloat and enough interest to probably get as much play as the BTN.  Sure, the payouts would be less, but I'm sure it would be more than all of these schools are capable of getting if they tried playing with the conference mixes.

going on 6 years strong, panj 

I was kind of right and kind of wrong. General strategy was in the ballpark.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Personally, I think the only Big 12 school that's a threat to leave to the Big Ten is Missouri. 

When I go all 'conspiracy theory' on this, I think there are two grand plans at work by the Big Ten:

1) Go after schools in major markets to try and get the Big Ten Network on as many basic cable packages as possible ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
2) Dismantle the Big East to finally force Notre Dame's hand into joining the conference

Here's the deal...I'd venture to guess that if Notre Dame agreed to join the Big Ten tomorrow, it's all over.  Expansion talk done.  You now have the biggest national draw in all of college football under your umbrella.  Want to see ND games?  Put the BTN on your basic cable package or watch every Catholic camp out in front of their cable provider like it's an abortion clinic.

If they want to go to 16 teams, sack the Big East, take Rutgers (NJ/NY), Pitt (Pittsburgh), Syracuse (the true state school of NY), and watch the conference fall apart.  Tell ND that if they want to be relevant in any sport, including football, they better join now because it's their last chance.  Then, they'll round out the conference with Missouri and/or NU.  I don't think they'll take both.  And, frankly, given how NU is one of of the ruling parties of the Big 12, they'd probably rather stick around and party in a very weak North division.

Once MU bolts, and if CU bolts to the Pac-10 (which doesn't seem like a slam dunk considering their AD is a perennial mess), go out and get two of the following three (Utah, Memphis, Louisville).

Personally, as we kind of look at all of the scenarios, I don't think we'll be left without a chair...yet.  The domino effect happens if the SEC wants to retaliate, and given that they're more into getting money from a network as opposed to starting their own, we're safe for a few years.  The Big 12 can replace Missouri and Colorado.  It won't be a good replacement, but it can be done.

What NEEDS to happen is for the Big 12 and the Pac-10 to start talking about forming a network of our own.  We don't need to add teams to our conference as much as get a network together.  If the Pac-10 became the Pac-12, and they merged networks with the Big 12, we're talking about 24 schools covering nearly every state west of the Mississippi.  That would be enough content to keep a cable channel afloat and enough interest to probably get as much play as the BTN.  Sure, the payouts would be less, but I'm sure it would be more than all of these schools are capable of getting if they tried playing with the conference mixes.

going on 6 years strong, panj 

I was kind of right and kind of wrong. General strategy was in the ballpark.

ummm, did you not see my mexico suggestions?

[Panjandrum]

ummm, did you not see my mexico suggestions?

Daris. The future called. You're wanted back there before you Marty McFly this all up.

[KITNfury]

Pan, i like 12 too. I just don't like our options.

['taterblast]

http://www.cincinnati.com/wlna/sports/2016/02/03/what-uc-hiding-big-12-conference/79713442/

[sonofdaxjones]

Cinncy doesn't bother me, but the rest of the supposedly hot names do.

[Panjandrum]

Pan, i like 12 too. I just don't like our options.

I like a lot of things about Cincinnati once you dig into it.

But that's always the problem with realignment.  The odd numbered addition is always fairly attractive, but you generally have to hold your nose for the even numbered addition.

Colorado --> Utah
Maryland --> Rutgers
Texas A&M --> Missouri
Cincinnati --> ???

[Panjandrum]

Cinncy doesn't bother me, but the rest of the supposedly hot names do.

I think most people would be happy with Cincy/BYU, but the question of how you make it work really makes things difficult.

[pissclams]

this is so dumb.  cincinnati? 
the term "power 5" is being diluted as is the benefit to being in one of the p5 conferences. 
there's not an unlimited pile of money out there that suddenly becomes distributed to a school when it joins a p5 conference.

allowing schools like cincy into the b12 would hurt "smaller" p5 schools like k-state much more than help them.

[Panjandrum]

this is so dumb.  cincinnati? 
the term "power 5" is being diluted as is the benefit to being in one of the p5 conferences. 
there's not an unlimited pile of money out there that suddenly becomes distributed to a school when it joins a p5 conference.

allowing schools like cincy into the b12 would hurt "smaller" p5 schools like k-state much more than help them.

It depends on what your end game is.

If you think the Big 12 is completely solvent and will never dissolve under the current 10 team configuration, then yes, we should stick with the status quo.

If you don't think the Big 12 will survive the same internal struggles, year over year, and the same negative press, year over year, then we should probably expand if that's what some of the more desirable schools (i.e. Oklahoma) want.

If the Big 12 is 100% guaranteed to be here in 20 years, or you are very confident that we'll find another P5 conference if it falls apart, no, don't expand.  But my confidence in the former wanes in that year over year, and I'm not willing to risk the latter.

And I know there's some sort of revulsion to Cincinnati on this board more than a lot of others i frequent, which is odd to me.  It's not like they haven't had a strong football program and basketball programs capable of competing in the P5.  It's not like they're a regionally ranked commuter school. It's a door into a huge recruiting area for both football and basketball.

Sure, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, etc., I get the dismissal.  But Cincinnati isn't that bad.

[sonofdaxjones]

Online troubledscribe
Katpak'r
***
 
Posts: 1256
View Profile  Personal Message (Online)

Re: Bombshell
« Reply #340 on: Today at 01:13:29 PM »
Quote
Kstate is hearing interest from the SEC about possibly joining the conference for the 2018 season

[MakeItRain]

Pan, i like 12 too. I just don't like our options.

I like a lot of things about Cincinnati once you dig into it.

But that's always the problem with realignment.  The odd numbered addition is always fairly attractive, but you generally have to hold your nose for the even numbered addition.

Colorado --> Utah
Maryland --> Rutgers
Texas A&M --> Missouri
Cincinnati --> ???

In literally every single measurable sense Utah was a significantly better pick up than Colorado, may not have seemed that way at the time but this is heavily lopsided towards Utah.

[CyberToothCat]

To me, the biggest and most obvious reason to dislike the idea of Cincy is fan interest. As in, they don't have it for themselves and they don't generate it for others. They play in a 35,000 sear stadium that they rarely fill.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

According to that link, Cincinnati ranks #52 in the nation in revenue, ahead of Washington St and behind Mississippi St. At $59.1 million, their revenue total doesn't look that bad (KSU $72.9). But then you look at the amount of subsidy they get from the school... $27.1 million!!!! That's 46% of their budget!!!! That's insane. The only reason they are still afloat is because they get massive amounts of money from the university every year. (I assume in the form of student fees?)

Ticket sales $7.2 million
Donations $5.2 million
Media rights $16.1 million
Misc other $3.5 million

That's pathetic. K-State is far from rich or elite, but...
Ticket sales $15.7 million
Donations $18.5 million
Media rights $33.8 million
Misc other $3.7 million

Our fan contributions to the Ath Dept dwarf Cincy's, and we are towards the lower end of the scale in the P5.  Sure, being in a better conference may increase their ticket revenue, but not that much. To put it bluntly, Cincinnati doesn't belong. They don't have a fanbase.

[meow meow]

I don't like Cincy, but comparing donations/ticket sales to a P5 school is pretty lol.

[troubledscribe]

Online troubledscribe
Katpak'r
***
 
Posts: 1256
View Profile  Personal Message (Online)

Re: Bombshell
« Reply #340 on: Today at 01:13:29 PM »
Quote
Kstate is hearing interest from the SEC about possibly joining the conference for the 2018 season

This ^^

[Blackcats]

Cinncy doesn't bother me, but the rest of the supposedly hot names do.

I think most people would be happy with Cincy/BYU, but the question of how you make it work really makes things difficult.

I'd rathe lop off my left testicle than BYU.

[pissclams]

this is so dumb.  cincinnati? 
the term "power 5" is being diluted as is the benefit to being in one of the p5 conferences. 
there's not an unlimited pile of money out there that suddenly becomes distributed to a school when it joins a p5 conference.

allowing schools like cincy into the b12 would hurt "smaller" p5 schools like k-state much more than help them.

It depends on what your end game is.

If you think the Big 12 is completely solvent and will never dissolve under the current 10 team configuration, then yes, we should stick with the status quo.

If you don't think the Big 12 will survive the same internal struggles, year over year, and the same negative press, year over year, then we should probably expand if that's what some of the more desirable schools (i.e. Oklahoma) want.

If the Big 12 is 100% guaranteed to be here in 20 years, or you are very confident that we'll find another P5 conference if it falls apart, no, don't expand.  But my confidence in the former wanes in that year over year, and I'm not willing to risk the latter.

And I know there's some sort of revulsion to Cincinnati on this board more than a lot of others i frequent, which is odd to me.  It's not like they haven't had a strong football program and basketball programs capable of competing in the P5.  It's not like they're a regionally ranked commuter school. It's a door into a huge recruiting area for both football and basketball.

Sure, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, etc., I get the dismissal.  But Cincinnati isn't that bad.

boil it all down and the fewer schools that we let into the p5 club, the better off k-state will be.
i don't know what will happen to the b12 in the future but i do know that we're in it today and associating with n00bs like cincy/commuter schools/etc devalues our conference and the schools in it.  i can't imagine UT entertaining the thought of sharing a conference with some of the suggestions in this thread.  at the end of the day, we should do everything we can to stabilize the apple cart, not support shaking it up.

kirk schulz (former animal) supposedly has pull within the ncaa, now's his chance to flex it.

[CyberToothCat]

I don't like Cincy, but comparing donations/ticket sales to a P5 school is pretty lol.

Translation: I can't discredit anything you said, so I'll make an inane comment and add "lol" in a vain attempt to validate it.

Do you think Cincinnati has a strong fanbase? A P5 caliber fanbase? I don't, which was the point of the post.

[meow meow]

I don't like Cincy, but comparing donations/ticket sales to a P5 school is pretty lol.

Translation: I can't discredit anything you said, so I'll make an inane comment and add "lol" in a vain attempt to validate it.

Do you think Cincinnati has a strong fanbase? A P5 caliber fanbase? I don't, which was the point of the post.

Our donations wouldn't be what they are if we were in cincy's current conference.  Our ticket sales wouldn't be as much as they are now because we wouldn't be able to charge a premium to play teams like cincy and south Florida, etc.  thus your comparison to support your claim is stupid.

[ew2x4]

Even if the SEC was asking us to join, I could totally see us turning them down in order to remain loyal while everyone else jumps ship.

[CyberToothCat]

I don't like Cincy, but comparing donations/ticket sales to a P5 school is pretty lol.

Translation: I can't discredit anything you said, so I'll make an inane comment and add "lol" in a vain attempt to validate it.

Do you think Cincinnati has a strong fanbase? A P5 caliber fanbase? I don't, which was the point of the post.

Our donations wouldn't be what they are if we were in cincy's current conference.  Our ticket sales wouldn't be as much as they are now because we wouldn't be able to charge a premium to play teams like cincy and south Florida, etc.  thus your comparison to support your claim is stupid.

Memphis plays in the same league as Cincy. In four of the last five years, they've had donations >$11 million, and their ticket sales averaged $8.5-$9.0 million. If Cincy is a better option, shouldn't their fanbase at least be able match what the fans of a crappy option like Memphis can do?