Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 5021278 times)

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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26650 on: September 15, 2015, 09:03:49 PM »

The interim AD is a very well respected ex-FB player and is signing a 1 year deal.  Supposedly someone is reporting they aren't expecting to make a hire until June.  I'm interested if ESPN will call the interim AD, the UT Pres, and possibly Boren and/or Fox and say "the LHN thing isn't working.  Let's figure something out now to stabilize it and the conference long term for all parties involved and allow the new AD to start controversy free".

That would be a touching display of compassion for ESPN to show to the Big 12 conference.

And will never happen.

Anyway, would we want to have a conference network if they can't guarantee what we make on kstatehd? Don't we make almost $3MM a year on it? Of have I been drinking too much cider already tonight?

From what I understand, we can all sell our Tier 3 rights on the market, or we can just sell them all back to Fox for $3 million.

I think most estimates have us bringing in somewhere around $4-5 million, including K-StateHD.tv.  A bunch of other stuff is sold to FSN-KC/FSN Midwest.

The tough thing about creating a network with our current configuration is that Fox owns our cable rights and FSN Southwest already has T3 rights for five schools (TCU, Baylor, Tech, OU, and OSU).  If we added Houston, they'd most likely end up on FSN Southwest as well, and that regional network for FSN would essentially become a de facto Big 12 Network for half of the conference.  If KSU stuck with FSN-KC and Cincy worked a deal with FSN Ohio, that would be 8 teams. 

If the LHN converted to a Big 12 Network, it would be very difficult because we'd lack the synergy that the Big Ten and Fox have with their networks.  After CBS, ESPN owns everything the SEC has.  If they want to move a few marquee games to the SECN every week, they can do that.  It's their choice.  They can shave a little off of ESPN/2/U and push it to the SECN because it makes more money to push that whole network vs. keep some of that content on the primary channels.  After ESPN/ABC gets their cut of the Big Ten Tier 1 games, the Big Ten Network has everything.  There is no third network to fill a quota with.  They can push a ton of content on there because they have 14 teams and ESPN can only take so much.  The rest just keeps the BTN stocked with endless content.

If we had a Big 12 Network, it would look a lot like the Pac 12 Network, and it would be ugly.  The Pac 12 Network carries horrible games because ESPN and Fox take all of the good ones and leave them with a crap ton of Colorado, Oregon State, and Wazzu.  Because of that, they can't get carriage, and because they can't get carriage, they can't generate as much money in T3 rights for their schools as we can in our model.

Honestly, we're better off with our pro rata increase and selling our rights regionally to maximize profits.  We can hope that a Big 12 championship game, increased bowl eligible teams, and more corporate sponsorship would help offset the increased two shares.  We probably would see a cut, but it wouldn't be dramatic.  Maybe less than a million a year per team.  Maybe.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26651 on: September 15, 2015, 10:13:01 PM »

What does houston have that cincinatti or memphis do not?

Our next head coach.

Offline kst8cat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26652 on: September 16, 2015, 12:42:42 AM »
Give me New Mexico and Colorado State or give me the Mountain West Conference.

Give me Wichita State or give me death!

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26653 on: September 16, 2015, 06:03:48 AM »

something has gone horribly wrong if we are ever in the same conference as Houston.
Houston and Cincinnati are coming.
I stand by my statement.


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Offline pissclams

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26654 on: September 16, 2015, 07:28:18 AM »
To expand on my Houston comments:

Their new basketball practice facility is worth $20 million.

http://www.uh.edu/plantops/projects/under-construction/basketball-practice-facility/

They are presenting new options for Hofheinz pavillion as well:

http://thedailycougar.com/2015/05/21/hofheinz-renovation-possibilities-presented-to-board-of-regents/

Houston has enough access to talent in all sports and a major market to potentially support them so that they'd be competitive very quickly.  I could see them being a TCU like school by the end of this TV contract if we brought them in around 2017/2018.

And before everyone talks about footprint, if we aren't doing a conference network, that doesn't really mean a whole lot.

Oh my God. I was in Houston's basketball arena yesterday and it is a rough ridin' disaster. Their football stade is great but holy crap am I going to take that hoops arena to the cleaners in the pud stadiums thread. It's unbelievably bad.

They're already looking to renovate.  I'm sure the money would come the second they got an invite a la TCU.

you're talking "shake out the couch cushions" type money


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Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26655 on: September 16, 2015, 07:44:10 AM »
If the Big12 adds Houston, I say we take Oklahoma with us to the Big 10 and be done with it.
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Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26656 on: September 16, 2015, 08:11:22 AM »

If the Big12 adds Houston, I say we take Oklahoma with us to the Big 10 and be done with it.

But won't we be forced to try to take our anchor little brother with us?


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Offline Yard Dog

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26657 on: September 16, 2015, 09:12:34 AM »
Maybe total tier 3 rights, but theres no way we make that much on K-StateHD subscriptions.

It's from all the people who sign up for monthly subscriptions to catch the first football game then forget to cancel it.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26658 on: September 16, 2015, 09:32:01 AM »
Pan, I like you, but stop trying to sell me on Houston. UH is a garbage school with an uglier campus than A&M and a fanbase that's far from Big 12 worthy. Colorado State, Memphis, Cincy are all better options. Hell, I'd take New Mexico over them.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26659 on: September 16, 2015, 09:53:00 AM »
Pan, I like you, but stop trying to sell me on Houston. UH is a garbage school with an uglier campus than A&M and a fanbase that's far from Big 12 worthy. Colorado State, Memphis, Cincy are all better options. Hell, I'd take New Mexico over them.

I'm not trying to sell them. I'm not sure that I have a preference outside of Cincy for #11 if we do expand.

If Gee is on the expansion committee, he's going to push Cincy. So, who is #12?

If we go "east", it's pretty clear to me that we will go with Houston, Memphis, or UCF. Memphis makes the most sense for a lot of reasons, but the politics of it all, and the fact that Memphis lags academically, means that the door might be open for Houston.

I'm just laying out the case that UH is trying to become a viable candidate. And they have a shot due to what I've stated already. I'm just a big believer in politics as a driver, and that's their primary play right now.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26660 on: September 16, 2015, 09:56:50 AM »

Maybe total tier 3 rights, but theres no way we make that much on K-StateHD subscriptions.

It's from all the people who sign up for monthly subscriptions to catch the first football game then forget to cancel it.

Even just the first game really can be a significant chunk of change. I have no idea as to how many folks tune in, but 100k to 200k doesn't seem like an unrealistic number (given the average tv ratings of other KSU games) and at $10 each there is an instant $1 to $2 million. Another business savvy move by Currie.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26661 on: September 16, 2015, 10:29:18 AM »

Maybe total tier 3 rights, but theres no way we make that much on K-StateHD subscriptions.

It's from all the people who sign up for monthly subscriptions to catch the first football game then forget to cancel it.

Even just the first game really can be a significant chunk of change. I have no idea as to how many folks tune in, but 100k to 200k doesn't seem like an unrealistic number (given the average tv ratings of other KSU games) and at $10 each there is an instant $1 to $2 million. Another business savvy move by Currie.

John Currie tweeted "#KStateHDTV pro @BrianSmoller checking in on the 10K-plus viewers Sat. on the nation's most watched digital network."  So that means it was in the 10k-15k range of subscribers. 
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Offline Unruly

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26662 on: September 16, 2015, 10:30:47 AM »
Adding any florida school that is not FSU is  :'bye cruel world: :'bye cruel world:
:dance:


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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26663 on: September 16, 2015, 10:35:53 AM »
Let's do Colorado state and Utah state
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline WildcatNkilt

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26664 on: September 16, 2015, 10:51:56 AM »
Hey losers, we're not going to add teams that will stretch our conference across three time zones. 
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Offline Belvis Noland

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26665 on: September 16, 2015, 10:53:22 AM »
Let's do Colorado state and Utah state

Utah State is likely the worst of the schools being tossed around.  Colorado State wouldn't be bad, tho. 

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26666 on: September 16, 2015, 10:53:55 AM »
Then also drop WVU for those two+ new Mexico. The east coast is terrible
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26667 on: September 16, 2015, 10:54:38 AM »
Utah state is fun. They do that I believe chant I think
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Offline TownieCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26668 on: September 16, 2015, 10:54:42 AM »

Maybe total tier 3 rights, but theres no way we make that much on K-StateHD subscriptions.

It's from all the people who sign up for monthly subscriptions to catch the first football game then forget to cancel it.

Even just the first game really can be a significant chunk of change. I have no idea as to how many folks tune in, but 100k to 200k doesn't seem like an unrealistic number (given the average tv ratings of other KSU games) and at $10 each there is an instant $1 to $2 million. Another business savvy move by Currie.

John Currie tweeted "#KStateHDTV pro @BrianSmoller checking in on the 10K-plus viewers Sat. on the nation's most watched digital network."  So that means it was in the 10k-15k range of subscribers.
Currie inflates numbers on the reg. Has there ever been official data released on how many subscriptions KStateHD has? I haven't seen them in 4+ years...

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26669 on: September 16, 2015, 11:29:05 AM »
Let's do Colorado state and Utah state

Utah State is likely the worst of the schools being tossed around.  Colorado State wouldn't be bad, tho.

Colorado State is an interesting candidate, but they screw up the potential divisions and balance.

In the 12 team model, everyone wants competitive balance.  But you have to make sure a few things happen:

1) You can't break rivalry games
2) Texas and OU don't want to play certain teams twice.  OU and UT only want the RRR, OU only wants Bedlam once.
3) You most likely need a format where all of the Texas schools play each other, for the most part

If we went to the 12 team model, my guess is that we'd do the Pac-12 zipper where we split the Texas schools in half and then play nine conference games with two protected cross-division.  That means the following.  Let's just say we take Memphis instead of Houston...

West:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State

East:
Baylor
TCU
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Memphis
Iowa State

From a competitive standpoint, these would be "balanced" divisions.  Baylor, TCU, and WVU will keep this division competitive while Cincy and Memphis could potentially provide depth.  You split Kansas and ISU so you have one bottom feeder on each side.  In the west, OU/UT provide the marquee names while KSU/OSU/Tech provide the competitive middle.  That sets up potential Texas/OU games with WVU or TCU/Baylor in the title game.

If you employ the zipper, you can have Texas/Tech play Baylor/TCU every year.  OU can play WVU every year, ISU can get Kansas and Kansas State, and KU/KSU can both get ISU.  Essentially, for the power teams like UT and OU, through the protected scheduling of seven games in this model, can potentially have the same schedule we do now if we expand.  The last two games would flex every year based on matchups that the conference and schools can decide upon.  If we want to match up good teams that may produce higher ratings, we can do that. If we want better teams to have an easier path to an undefeated season (i.e. what the SEC does), we can do that, too.

Now, Colorado State kind of screws that up because you have to put them in the West.  So, does that mean KU or KSU goes East?  The same question could be asked of BYU.  No matter what, we won't go back to North/South divisions.  There will be no Texoma division again.  TV partners won't want it, half of the conference won't want it, etc.

Also, by taking two eastern teams, and extending the GOR out past 2025, there is a chance you can outlast the ACC GOR, and if FSU gets jumpy, you have options.  You can put them in the East with another ACC team that may want to leave (i.e. Louisville), and move Iowa State back to the West, or you can get FSU, lump them in the East, and then go extend an invitation to BYU, Colorado State, Houston, etc. and put them in the West.  Or you can move Iowa State back to the West and pull in UCF or something with FSU in the East to give them a closer, regional travel partner, and we could have two schools in Florida.

Going East first gives the Big 12 options going forward.  Whatever we do, we need to do it with the potential thought/option of easily pulling in and integrating Florida State at some point, because they are really the only school of value that has a realistic chance of jumping to a new conference.  As we extend out over the next decade, the financial divide between what they have and what all of the regionally located SEC schools have will be significant, and they're already struggling, financially.  Unless some major windfall happens there, they may have no choice but to entertain options about ten years from now.  And they definitely have enough of a following that they could get a really, really nice T3 deal via Fox Sports Florida. 

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26670 on: September 16, 2015, 11:32:08 AM »
I stand corrected. So call it about$120k the first month. Assume half to 1/3 stay on the other months either because they care about the other stuff or just forget to cancel and it looks like the network makes about $780k to $560k per year. Not bad, but KU will probably start making that per non conference pretty soon.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26671 on: September 16, 2015, 11:37:20 AM »
I stand corrected. So call it about$120k the first month. Assume half to 1/3 stay on the other months either because they care about the other stuff or just forget to cancel and it looks like the network makes about $780k to $560k per year. Not bad, but KU will probably start making that per non conference pretty soon.

What we've basically done is hedge our bets that if/when we get cord cutters, our T3 rights will easily transition to that established model, and we're also not limited by geography.  There are some games, aside from football, that are simulcast on FSN-KC from KStateHD.  That means, if you live in this area, you can watch some of the baseball, volleyball, etc. on FSN.  However, if you live in Texas, Oklahoma, or anywhere else for that matter, you can just do K-StateHD.

KU has this same model, but they do Time Warner in KC, and the rest of their stuff, outside of the region, is simulcast on ESPN3.  This is more problematic for them because people in the greater Kansas region (Wichita, Topeka, etc.), can watch that stuff on Cox 22.  However, in KC, you can't watch it unless you have Time Warner Cable and Metro Sports.  For example, I couldn't watch the KU/Memphis game because I have UVerse.  It was blacked out here on ESPN3 as well.  So, here in ground zero, Time Warner is trying to entice KU fans to subscribe to their service by hoarding one football game and a number of non-conference basketball games.  It's a point of contention with several KU fans that I know.

Offline CatsNShocks

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26672 on: September 16, 2015, 11:45:04 AM »
 I say we add ND and FSU. Call it a day.
Somebody make that happen.
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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26673 on: September 16, 2015, 11:49:34 AM »
I say we add ND and FSU. Call it a day.
Somebody make that happen.

Notre Dame is claiming that they're drawing a line in the sand on paying players, and they'll potentially drop football if necessary.  I doubt it, but whatever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/sports/ncaafootball/notre-dame-president-stands-firm-amid-shifts-in-college-athletics.html

Offline Blackcats

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #26674 on: September 16, 2015, 11:50:10 AM »
Whoa, whoa, whoa...

Honestly, we're better off with our pro rata increase and selling our rights regionally to maximize profits.  We can hope that a Big 12 championship game, increased bowl eligible teams, and more corporate sponsorship would help offset the increased two shares.  We probably would see a cut, but it wouldn't be dramatic.  Maybe less than a million a year per team.  Maybe.

The contract that we are currently under says if we add two teams, there is no splitting of the pot, at all. If we add two, we get two additional shares as a conference and through what you listed more money as a team as well. If we add four, then we start splitting shares and the way it was packaged with the CCG and SEC/Sugar Bowl tie-in (those 2 were estimated $80MM) plus additional bowls we would be even most years unless we didn't fill our bowl allotment AND missed a team in the playoff (like last year, yay!).

I remember this distinctly when it happened during grant of rights and bringing in WVU and TCU...there was great discussion about Louie but the ? was who was the 4th so we stopped at 2 thinking we could add Louie and 3 from the ACC...which is why the ACC scrambled and signed GOR.
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