Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[Panjandrum]

I'm completely rough ridin' opposed to adding anyone not currently in a power conference. I'd rather stay at ten than do that. If dumb crap Boren wants Houston, he needs to retire or get fired.

This attitude is just pervading all conferences right now; not just us.  Everyone feels like they need to play Florida State, Alabama, USC, and Notre Dame every weekend. 

TCU took a few years to grow into what they are now, and this past year, they were our only representative in the CWS and probably our only real CFP contender last year.  This year, they're really the one great hope to re-establish some respectability to this league and change some perceptions.

Houston and Cincy can have Top 25 programs quickly.  They won't hurt us from a basketball perspective, and Houston can raise our baseball profile. 

I mean, if the goal is to be a helmet school league, where all that matters is the name, then we can sit at ten and see if FSU ever gets jumpy.  If the goal is to get to twelve teams, have a champ game, and try to potentially gain stability, then we can do just fine with Houston and Cincy.

[KITNfury]

I don't see how 12 is inherently more stable than 10. The only exception is if you do as helmet sold. Then if Ou left, you still have names.

If I could see the future and knew this group of ten never broke up, I'd lean towards not adding any team for any reason.

[catastrophe]

Perception is a big part of it. If the Big 12 wants to be viewed as one of the big boys (which, financially, it clearly is) then it should make a move for established names rather than up and coming ones. The Big 12 doesn't want to look like a stepping stone conference.

If there are no good candidates for that (which seems to be the case at the moment) then it is better off staying rich at 10.

[Panjandrum]

I don't see how 12 is inherently more stable than 10. The only exception is if you do as helmet sold. Then if Ou left, you still have names.

If I could see the future and knew this group of ten never broke up, I'd lean towards not adding any team for any reason.

There are some teams, like OU, that want to go back to 12 so we can get back to 8 conference games so they can beef up their OOC a little bit to schedule more Notre Dame's and the like.

That's a part of this.

[Panjandrum]

Perception is a big part of it. If the Big 12 wants to be viewed as one of the big boys (which, financially, it clearly is) then it should make a move for established names rather than up and coming ones. The Big 12 doesn't want to look like a stepping stone conference.

No one is leaving the Pac-12, and the only team(s) that probably would consider leaving the ACC at some point are Louisville and FSU. 

However, no one is moving for another nine years, and our TV contract will be up for renewal before FSU would be available to us.  We have to have a reason for ESPN/Fox to reconfigure the deal prior to our next look in and potentially expand the GOR out beyond what the ACC currently has.

Look at it this way...

If we took Houston and Cincy now, got to 12, built them over the next nine years, extended the GOR by 2-3 years, we could potentially outlast the ACC.  If, by that time, the money disparity is so great that FSU and/or Louisville feel compelled to leave, we have the following:

The ability to still expand to 14 teams like the Big Ten and SEC

Louisville would have travel partners in Cincy and WVU that would help rebuild some rivalries that were started in the Big East.

Florida State could potentially anchor an East Division that could include: FSU, WVU, Louisville, Cincy, TCU, Baylor, and Houston.

All four additions would be Tier 1 research institutions (which we are currently not).  All have endowments over $600 million (which we do not have).  All would be solid additions in basketball and baseball.

I think it would be best if we could stay at ten and potentially cherry pick ACC teams, but the problem there is that we have to re-up our deals before the ACC.  If the Big 12 and the ACC are ripe for being ripped apart, being the second one to have your GOR expire is a good thing.

I can't imagine FSU fans hating a potential schedule of TCU, Baylor, Louisville, Cincy, Houston, WVU, and some combination of UT/OU/Tech/OSU/KSU/etc.  more than the trash schedule that they currently have.

We're not going to be in a realistic position to pull Clemson, GT, Miami, etc.  The pull of east coast academics is too strong.  FSU and Louisville seem to be more inclined to follow the athletic budgets because they're more recent additions in the history of the conference, and they have no real tie to Tobacco Road.  We may get two, at best.

[meow meow]

nobody geeks out about expansion quite like panj does.  the divisions, the pods, all of it, he eats this up.  if he were steve dave, this would be his credit card thread.

[catastrophe]

These are solid points, but what makes you think the Big 12 would have any problem renewing their contract for a sweet deal? Didn't they land the current one with conference prestige at an all time low?

That said, I would not be surprised if the big wigs were considering a scenario much like what you describe in the event the conference fails to secure a national title in the next couple of years.

[Houstoncat93]

I live in Houston and have for the last 20 years.  No one gives a rat's ass about U of H here, even their own alumni base.  I see almost no UH shirts or license plates for U of H.  UT and ATM dominate the market with probably LSU third.  The recent success of Baylor and TCU has boosted their profile here but not sure how that will go if either program falls off.

In short, U of H should be a non-starter in any expansion discussion for the Big 12.

[Gooch]

I live in Houston and have for the last 20 years.  No one gives a rat's ass about U of H here, even their own alumni base.  I see almost no UH shirts or license plates for U of H.  UT and ATM dominate the market with probably LSU third.  The recent success of Baylor and TCU has boosted their profile here but not sure how that will go if either program falls off.

In short, U of H should be a non-starter in any expansion discussion for the Big 12.

:micdrop:

[Panjandrum]

I live in Houston and have for the last 20 years.  No one gives a rat's ass about U of H here, even their own alumni base.  I see almost no UH shirts or license plates for U of H.  UT and ATM dominate the market with probably LSU third.  The recent success of Baylor and TCU has boosted their profile here but not sure how that will go if either program falls off.

In short, U of H should be a non-starter in any expansion discussion for the Big 12.

One could argue the same thing about TCU in Dallas, but they have a much, much lower enrollment.

I'm not saying that Houston is ever going to usurp some of the more major powers, but Houston is a huge pie, and if Houston can plant a Top 25 program there, can we get a big enough chunk to make their athletic resume match the academic pros they bring to the conference.

Our conference, going forward, is going to be sold on competitiveness, top to bottom, like it is now.  Houston and Cincy can be competitive.

[KITNfury]

I live in Houston and have for the last 20 years.  No one gives a rat's ass about U of H here, even their own alumni base.  I see almost no UH shirts or license plates for U of H.  UT and ATM dominate the market with probably LSU third.  The recent success of Baylor and TCU has boosted their profile here but not sure how that will go if either program falls off.

In short, U of H should be a non-starter in any expansion discussion for the Big 12.

One could argue the same thing about TCU in Dallas, but they have a much, much lower enrollment.

I'm not saying that Houston is ever going to usurp some of the more major powers, but Houston is a huge pie, and if Houston can plant a Top 25 program there, can we get a big enough chunk to make their athletic resume match the academic pros they bring to the conference.

Our conference, going forward, is going to be sold on competitiveness, top to bottom, like it is now.  Houston and Cincy can be competitive.

Already have good competition. Next!

[Panjandrum]

These are solid points, but what makes you think the Big 12 would have any problem renewing their contract for a sweet deal? Didn't they land the current one with conference prestige at an all time low?

That said, I would not be surprised if the big wigs were considering a scenario much like what you describe in the event the conference fails to secure a national title in the next couple of years.

Bringing in new teams would require reworking the deal with ESPN/Fox.  If we're going to get that pro rata increase, and we're going to get a conference championship game back, which would possibly bring everyone an extra million, the decreased slice will be a lot less.  It's not like we're really distributing a ton of bowl money, and honestly, we're leaving some on the table because we can't even fill all of our spots half of the time.  And we're going to miss out big money if we can't get a team in the playoffs every year.  If a lack of a title game, or poor perception is hurting us from doing that, we're being financially penalized for staying at ten.

Also, we have to remember that for the first few years, we would stair step the new members to a full share.  It would be a 50/75/100, or it could be 50/60/70/80/90/100, etc.  And Cincy/Houston would walk across broken glass to even get that.

[Belvis Noland]

would you idiots shut up - Houston and Cincy are dog crap.  like, the SEC, ACC, Pac12, big 10 would never touch those losers.  nor should we. 

[Panjandrum]

I live in Houston and have for the last 20 years.  No one gives a rat's ass about U of H here, even their own alumni base.  I see almost no UH shirts or license plates for U of H.  UT and ATM dominate the market with probably LSU third.  The recent success of Baylor and TCU has boosted their profile here but not sure how that will go if either program falls off.

In short, U of H should be a non-starter in any expansion discussion for the Big 12.

One could argue the same thing about TCU in Dallas, but they have a much, much lower enrollment.

I'm not saying that Houston is ever going to usurp some of the more major powers, but Houston is a huge pie, and if Houston can plant a Top 25 program there, can we get a big enough chunk to make their athletic resume match the academic pros they bring to the conference.

Our conference, going forward, is going to be sold on competitiveness, top to bottom, like it is now.  Houston and Cincy can be competitive.

Already have good competition. Next!

But we're penalized for the lack of the 13th game. 

The Pac-12 and Big Ten (2016) are doing 9 game conference schedules.  The ACC is thinking about it.  The SEC doesn't need it. 

Once that happens, our claim of nine game schedules will be null and void against the Pac and Big Ten because they'll have the title game.

We assume that an eight game playoff will happen, and I think it ultimately will, but that may not happen until they re-up the CFP.

[Panjandrum]

would you idiots shut up - Houston and Cincy are dog crap.  like, the SEC, ACC, Pac12, big 10 would never touch those losers.  nor should we.

Well, we're not in a great spot right now if more powerful members of the conference are pushing for expansion.

[Belvis Noland]

would you idiots shut up - Houston and Cincy are dog crap.  like, the SEC, ACC, Pac12, big 10 would never touch those losers.  nor should we.

Well, we're not in a great spot right now if more powerful members of the conference are pushing for expansion.

Well then that's too bad for us.  because we're never adding crap bags like Houston and cincy. 

[deputy dawg]

Does our limp-wristed conference leadership set us up for more poaching by other conferences if we expand, or are our limp-wristed conference leaders going to let it happen without expansion.

[wetwillie]

Does our limp-wristed conference leadership set us up for more poaching by other conferences if we expand, or are our limp-wristed conference leaders going to let it happen without expansion.

Limp wristed.  BECAUSE GAY

[MakeItRain]

Miami is small timey AF

[SdK]

It doesn't matter who is in our conference. It just matters that we beat them.

[Yard Dog]

After the way our two "title contender" teams played last night I am worried 

[sonofdaxjones]

I read nothing into how TCU or OK State played last night.  Opening night, Thursday night, on the road.   Minn isn't bad and Kill knows Patterson very well.    Both games were purely survive and advance games.   

[HerrSonntag]

I read nothing into how TCU or OK State played last night.  Opening night, Thursday night, on the road.   Minn isn't bad and Kill knows Patterson very well.    Both games were purely survive and advance games.

They kept saying how humid it was there when Boykin was cramping up... is there anyway we can indian sweat lodge up the stadium when TCU comes to town.  We can all detox and reestablish ourselves as the one true purple.

[sonofdaxjones]

I read nothing into how TCU or OK State played last night.  Opening night, Thursday night, on the road.   Minn isn't bad and Kill knows Patterson very well.    Both games were purely survive and advance games.

They kept saying how humid it was there when Boykin was cramping up... is there anyway we can indian sweat lodge up the stadium when TCU comes to town.  We can all detox and reestablish ourselves as the one true purple.

Sounds good 

[KITNfury]

Surround the field with hot tubs