2014-15 college basketball

[j rake]

College basketball would not be anything close to "unwatchable" with a 24 second clock.

i definitely agree that a 24-second clock would make the game more exciting in cases where two semi equal teams take the floor. aside from that, i think we're using different definitions of 'unwatchable.' as a viewer, i don't care about pace. i am more likely to watch games that are close, and fewer possessions via a longer shot clock can often help lesser teams hang around longer. if you've got two same/similar teams, then the pace is unlikely to matter. the game will hopefully be exciting regardless.

i know lots of people prefer tempo in college football as well. i personally hate it. margin of victory is higher than it's ever been, particularly in non-con games involving super-fast teams, and i just don't find 75-10, 64-7, 80-14 to be very fun.

[MakeItRain]

What prompted coaches like Jerry Tarkanian, Nolan Richardson, Billy Tubbs, etc. to go to a more uptempo style than teams play today? How can we get it back?

tarkanian was told by boosters upon his hiring at UNLV that they wanted a fast, up-tempo, exciting team. he was more than happy to oblige. paul westhead, the fastest coach ever, played at his furious tempo in part to increase his chances of landing on TV (i think i read that once, but maybe i'm misremembering).

nowadays, almost every game involving big conference teams are on TV. if you want to differentiate yourself and get noticed, paint your court to look like a rainforest or have your overaggressive fanbase rush the court after big victories.

Very interesting, but that can't be the main reason. These coaches wanted to play fast, because of a tactical advantage? What has changed that causes fewer coaches to want to employ an uptempo style? That's what we have to figure out.

Everyone keeps talking about the shot clock, but the game was faster when it was still 45. I can't back this up, but I feel there were a lot of uptempo teams even before there was any shot clock, though I'm sure average pace was weighed down by some teams really taking the air out of the ball.

Playing fast back then wasn't a tactical advantage, plenty of teams did it. It isn't a tactical advantage now because no team has seemed to be able to accumulate enough talent to play fast but guard well. Kentucky exempted of course.

It can be a tactical advantage. I don't think you need unique skill sets or elite talent to take advantage of playing at a faster pace, and I don't think your defense needs to suffer, either.

I don't think you need a unique set of skills to play fast either although having multiple players on the floor that are comfortable with the ball in their hand certainly helps to be effective. In college basketball playing fast absolutely hurts you defensively because teams with scholarship limits can't find the proper depth to play fast and have enough players that can guard. There are very few teams in the history of college basketball that play fast but really have the ability to guard. History is littered with teams that play fast and turnover the opponent a lot but still give up a ton of points, but the college game just isn't set up for teams to be deep enough to play good tough defense while playing at an accelerated pace.

[michigancat]

I don't think you need a unique set of skills to play fast either although having multiple players on the floor that are comfortable with the ball in their hand certainly helps to be effective. In college basketball playing fast absolutely hurts you defensively because teams with scholarship limits can't find the proper depth to play fast and have enough players that can guard. There are very few teams in the history of college basketball that play fast but really have the ability to guard. History is littered with teams that play fast and turnover the opponent a lot but still give up a ton of points, but the college game just isn't set up for teams to be deep enough to play good tough defense while playing at an accelerated pace.

Plenty of teams with above average tempos have above average defensive efficiency. A great example is OU - in Big 12 games they have the league's best defensive efficiency but play at the second fastest pace on offense.

[nicname]

I like what j rake has been saying regarding tempo vs efficiency. Also agree with MIR said about teams who push tempo having trouble guarding, and the evidence shows that is the case. When more teams played at a higher tempo, there were more offenses with a higher efficiency.

What would be great is is we (actually, they) could find a sweet spot where teams of all varieties style and tempo would have an opportunity to flourish. Perhaps those opportunities are there now, but it's just en vogue for coaches to slow things down and micromanage the games more than previously.

Ideally, I guess I'd like more continuity, good efficiency, and while I'm a fan of a higher pace, having a variety of styles able to find success would be ideal.

As _Fan's graph showed points per possession hasn't fluctuated much in the last 12 years, but style of play definitely has gone through major changes.



That's why I'm not sold on lowering the shot-clock. It would likely render certain play-styles obsolete.

I find a more uptempo, transition-based game more fun to watch. Especially when guys are trying to force turnovers and crashing Orebs, but that's obviously because my favorite teams employed that style. FWIW, 2009-10 K-State was No. 47 in the country at 70.3 possessions per game. They'd be No. 10 this season behind only Arkansas (70.7), LSU (70.6), and Iowa State (70.6) among power 5 schools.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I don't think you need a unique set of skills to play fast either although having multiple players on the floor that are comfortable with the ball in their hand certainly helps to be effective. In college basketball playing fast absolutely hurts you defensively because teams with scholarship limits can't find the proper depth to play fast and have enough players that can guard. There are very few teams in the history of college basketball that play fast but really have the ability to guard. History is littered with teams that play fast and turnover the opponent a lot but still give up a ton of points, but the college game just isn't set up for teams to be deep enough to play good tough defense while playing at an accelerated pace.

Plenty of teams with above average tempos have above average defensive efficiency. A great example is OU - in Big 12 games they have the league's best defensive efficiency but play at the second fastest pace on offense.

They also have terrible depth.

[nicname]

I don't think you need a unique set of skills to play fast either although having multiple players on the floor that are comfortable with the ball in their hand certainly helps to be effective. In college basketball playing fast absolutely hurts you defensively because teams with scholarship limits can't find the proper depth to play fast and have enough players that can guard. There are very few teams in the history of college basketball that play fast but really have the ability to guard. History is littered with teams that play fast and turnover the opponent a lot but still give up a ton of points, but the college game just isn't set up for teams to be deep enough to play good tough defense while playing at an accelerated pace.

Plenty of teams with above average tempos have above average defensive efficiency. A great example is OU - in Big 12 games they have the league's best defensive efficiency but play at the second fastest pace on offense.

It makes sense that a team would often have to sacrifice guarding for disruption and causing turnovers and vice versa. But the variety, based on preference and personnel, is what is/ can be great about college basketball. Obviously, some truly great teams (as MIR mentioned Kentucky) would be able to do both, but having different avenues to a similar end result is cool.

[j rake]

an easy way to speed up the game without touching the shot clock is reducing the time teams have to get the ball across midcourt from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. you would definitely see teams press more, and in turn, offenses would have to be more decisive and aggressive attacking it.

you rarely see teams get called for 10-second violations against pressing, trapping teams; and when they are in danger, they simply call timeout. the 10-second rule has become almost irrelevant, yet allows teams to walk...the...ball..up...the...court...ever...so...slowly.

i'd also like to see the ncaa adopt the six-foul rule the NBA uses. too many of the best players are being forced to the bench because they pick up two quick fouls. the game isn't fun to watch when the best players are on the bench, and it goes without saying that scoring will go down when backups are chewing up minutes.

[Skipper44]

I like the 8 second rule and wish it was in effect now. 

On the 6 fouls, the Big East did that in the late 90s.  I am pretty there was an increase in total fouls and length of games, much gnashing of teeth about its effect on Big Monday in a pre WatchESPN world

[Cire]

Seems like slower pace makes threes more valuable

[j rake]

On the 6 fouls, the Big East did that in the early 90s.  I am pretty there was an increase in total fouls and length of games, much gnashing of teeth about its effect on Big Monday in a pre WatchESPN world

yeah, that's a valid concern. but does it feel like it's a problem in the NBA?

as far as game length is concerned, i could think of at least a half dozen ways to shorten games without disrupting them in any noticeable way.

[Skipper44]

I'll be damned if my old balls memory was right the first time, they had 6 fouls 90-92

[sys]

the eight second thing is the best bball idea i've ever heard.

[star seed 7]

an easy way to speed up the game without touching the shot clock is reducing the time teams have to get the ball across midcourt from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. you would definitely see teams press more, and in turn, offenses would have to be more decisive and aggressive attacking it.

you rarely see teams get called for 10-second violations against pressing, trapping teams; and when they are in danger, they simply call timeout. the 10-second rule has become almost irrelevant, yet allows teams to walk...the...ball..up...the...court...ever...so...slowly.

i'd also like to see the ncaa adopt the six-foul rule the NBA uses. too many of the best players are being forced to the bench because they pick up two quick fouls. the game isn't fun to watch when the best players are on the bench, and it goes without saying that scoring will go down when backups are chewing up minutes.

i'd rather they just call fouls less

[wetwillie]

UK vs Georgia

[star seed 7]

UK vs Georgia

would be ku's most celebrated win of the year

[Trim]

On the 6 fouls, the Big East did that in the early 90s.  I am pretty there was an increase in total fouls and length of games, much gnashing of teeth about its effect on Big Monday in a pre WatchESPN world

yeah, that's a valid concern. but does it feel like it's a problem in the NBA?

It's 1 foul per 8 minutes in a game. 

[nicname]

an easy way to speed up the game without touching the shot clock is reducing the time teams have to get the ball across midcourt from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. you would definitely see teams press more, and in turn, offenses would have to be more decisive and aggressive attacking it.

you rarely see teams get called for 10-second violations against pressing, trapping teams; and when they are in danger, they simply call timeout. the 10-second rule has become almost irrelevant, yet allows teams to walk...the...ball..up...the...court...ever...so...slowly.

i'd also like to see the ncaa adopt the six-foul rule the NBA uses. too many of the best players are being forced to the bench because they pick up two quick fouls. the game isn't fun to watch when the best players are on the bench, and it goes without saying that scoring will go down when backups are chewing up minutes.

An eight or nine-second half-court clock would open up a lot of interesting possibilities.

[j rake]

well, it took us a few days, but looks like we've fixed college basketball.

someone please fwd this to the ncaa. 

[mocat]

Great thread guys

[nicname]

 

[Kat Kid]

https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/573341524173451264

[HerrSonntag]

https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/573341524173451264

What could he possibly have been trying to say?
 

[michigancat]

I wish Bill Walton called every game. He's the very best.

[bones129]

I wish Bill Walton called every game. He's the very best.

Bilas could learn a lot from Bill. But he never will.

[nicname]

I wish Bill Walton called every game. He's the very best.

Walton on NBA on NBC. Yes, please! Doug Collins was great too.