StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

You're reaching now, MIR, really reaching. Stick to the shooting. That's the more questionable act at this point.

I'm reaching by staying the truth lies in the middle of a story told by a police department that hasn't been forthright with anything that happened that day and a story told by a witness who just committed a crime that put these events in motion? Okay, sure

See bold. That's where you're reaching. Again, stick to the shooting from 35 feet away.

[MakeItRain]

By the way, was Brown stealing and assaulting the worker at the same QT that was torched? Would make the ensuing looting/torching more than a little ironic.

It didn't happen at QT, you illiterate.

[CNS]

Maybe I read the CNNs wrong, but I thought I read a witness account that had the first shot being fired when Brown was something like 20' away and running?

[EMAWmeister]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

You're reaching now, MIR, really reaching. Stick to the shooting. That's the more questionable act at this point.

I'm reaching by staying the truth lies in the middle of a story told by a police department that hasn't been forthright with anything that happened that day and a story told by a witness who just committed a crime that put these events in motion? Okay, sure

See bold. That's where you're reaching. Again, stick to the shooting from 35 feet away.

Are you not reaching by believing the other side of that story?


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[steve dave]

By the way, was Brown stealing and assaulting the worker at the same QT that was torched? Would make the ensuing looting/torching more than a little ironic.

ok alanis

[kitten_mittons]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

square that circle a little more for me.  Why do you think its more credible than the cops?  After all, isn't it alleged now that these two used physical intimidation to steal?  Why can't we make the jump that they used the same physical intimidation to threaten a cop and once the confrontation escalated it went to gun grabbing.

Square what circle, did you stop reading before I said the truth is likely in the middle? How in the hell could anyone take a gun from a cop in a car? Either it is in a holster or it was being pointed at Brown. If it was holstered that cop would have to be dead for Brown to reach into the car and get to his hip while seated. If it were pointed at Brown the cop certainly would have squeezed off a round before any struggle for the gun happened.

I thought they were out of the car and there the confrontation continued.  Supposedly Brown was moving away and shot, while the cop maintains the confrontation continued, gun grab, shots etc.  Or am I wrong on the narratives?

I'm not completely sure we know. The eyewitness accounts have the first shot being fired from the car so that would mean the supposed struggle happened there as well.

The police side of the story is that they were out of the car, one of the suspects shoved the police back into the car,  struggle ensued, gun went off, suspects fleed, gunshots, dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[MakeItRain]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

You're reaching now, MIR, really reaching. Stick to the shooting. That's the more questionable act at this point.

I'm reaching by staying the truth lies in the middle of a story told by a police department that hasn't been forthright with anything that happened that day and a story told by a witness who just committed a crime that put these events in motion? Okay, sure

See bold. That's where you're reaching. Again, stick to the shooting from 35 feet away.

The takeaway line was one you chose not to bold to argue a completely irrelevant point.

[ednksu]

I see your point MiR
And I wont change just for you 



I do wonder how dramatically things would have changed with this info being released immediately.  Its a shame that we can't have an honest discussion about race without a murky story like this as a pretext. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

By the way, was Brown stealing and assaulting the worker at the same QT that was torched? Would make the ensuing looting/torching more than a little ironic.

It didn't happen at QT, you illiterate.

MIR got very prickly all of a sudden. I haven't read the police report yet, just the news story, which didn't ID the convenience store.

[MakeItRain]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

square that circle a little more for me.  Why do you think its more credible than the cops?  After all, isn't it alleged now that these two used physical intimidation to steal?  Why can't we make the jump that they used the same physical intimidation to threaten a cop and once the confrontation escalated it went to gun grabbing.

Square what circle, did you stop reading before I said the truth is likely in the middle? How in the hell could anyone take a gun from a cop in a car? Either it is in a holster or it was being pointed at Brown. If it was holstered that cop would have to be dead for Brown to reach into the car and get to his hip while seated. If it were pointed at Brown the cop certainly would have squeezed off a round before any struggle for the gun happened.

I thought they were out of the car and there the confrontation continued.  Supposedly Brown was moving away and shot, while the cop maintains the confrontation continued, gun grab, shots etc.  Or am I wrong on the narratives?

I'm not completely sure we know. The eyewitness accounts have the first shot being fired from the car so that would mean the supposed struggle happened there as well.

The police side of the story is that they were out of the car, one of the suspects shoved the police back into the car,  struggle ensued, gun went off, suspects fleed, gunshots, dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So if it happened this way and there was more than one shot fired then the cop has to be charged with murder, right?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Maybe I read the CNNs wrong, but I thought I read a witness account that had the first shot being fired when Brown was something like 20' away and running?

I read that the first shot was from within the car. I think the 18 year old probably shoved the cop into the car thinking he was going to try to get away, seeing as how he just robbed a gas station. The cop fired at him from within the car at close range (justified) and then shot him multiple times when he was trying to run away (not justified).

[Rage Against the McKee]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

square that circle a little more for me.  Why do you think its more credible than the cops?  After all, isn't it alleged now that these two used physical intimidation to steal?  Why can't we make the jump that they used the same physical intimidation to threaten a cop and once the confrontation escalated it went to gun grabbing.

Square what circle, did you stop reading before I said the truth is likely in the middle? How in the hell could anyone take a gun from a cop in a car? Either it is in a holster or it was being pointed at Brown. If it was holstered that cop would have to be dead for Brown to reach into the car and get to his hip while seated. If it were pointed at Brown the cop certainly would have squeezed off a round before any struggle for the gun happened.

I thought they were out of the car and there the confrontation continued.  Supposedly Brown was moving away and shot, while the cop maintains the confrontation continued, gun grab, shots etc.  Or am I wrong on the narratives?

I'm not completely sure we know. The eyewitness accounts have the first shot being fired from the car so that would mean the supposed struggle happened there as well.

The police side of the story is that they were out of the car, one of the suspects shoved the police back into the car,  struggle ensued, gun went off, suspects fleed, gunshots, dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So if it happened this way and there was more than one shot fired then the cop has to be charged with murder, right?

If I'm on the jury, I convict him of second degree murder.

[Trim]

By the way, was Brown stealing and assaulting the worker at the same QT that was torched? Would make the ensuing looting/torching more than a little ironic.

ok alanis

With the renewed popularity of Weird Al, I want K-S-U to do a parody of her song but with all the topical ironic events of today in the lyrics.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

You're reaching now, MIR, really reaching. Stick to the shooting. That's the more questionable act at this point.

I'm reaching by staying the truth lies in the middle of a story told by a police department that hasn't been forthright with anything that happened that day and a story told by a witness who just committed a crime that put these events in motion? Okay, sure

See bold. That's where you're reaching. Again, stick to the shooting from 35 feet away.

The takeaway line was one you chose not to bold to argue a completely irrelevant point.

Ok, so we're at least moving away from the "the cop started it" bullshit? You're giving up on at least that part of the narrative, right? If so, I'm happy to move on to the "he went for my gun" part of the story.

[MakeItRain]

I see your point MiR
And I wont change just for you   

I was quoting fanning's spelling error there

By the way, was Brown stealing and assaulting the worker at the same QT that was torched? Would make the ensuing looting/torching more than a little ironic.

It didn't happen at QT, you illiterate.

MIR got very prickly all of a sudden. I haven't read the police report yet, just the news story, which didn't ID the convenience store.

I had the word thug there but deleted it.

[CNS]

Maybe I read the CNNs wrong, but I thought I read a witness account that had the first shot being fired when Brown was something like 20' away and running?

I read that the first shot was from within the car. I think the 18 year old probably shoved the cop into the car thinking he was going to try to get away, seeing as how he just robbed a gas station. The cop fired at him from within the car at close range (justified) and then shot him multiple times when he was trying to run away (not justified).

FYI, being shoved by someone who them immediately runs doesn't meet the standard for deadly force.

[kitten_mittons]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

square that circle a little more for me.  Why do you think its more credible than the cops?  After all, isn't it alleged now that these two used physical intimidation to steal?  Why can't we make the jump that they used the same physical intimidation to threaten a cop and once the confrontation escalated it went to gun grabbing.

Square what circle, did you stop reading before I said the truth is likely in the middle? How in the hell could anyone take a gun from a cop in a car? Either it is in a holster or it was being pointed at Brown. If it was holstered that cop would have to be dead for Brown to reach into the car and get to his hip while seated. If it were pointed at Brown the cop certainly would have squeezed off a round before any struggle for the gun happened.

I thought they were out of the car and there the confrontation continued.  Supposedly Brown was moving away and shot, while the cop maintains the confrontation continued, gun grab, shots etc.  Or am I wrong on the narratives?

I'm not completely sure we know. The eyewitness accounts have the first shot being fired from the car so that would mean the supposed struggle happened there as well.

The police side of the story is that they were out of the car, one of the suspects shoved the police back into the car,  struggle ensued, gun went off, suspects fleed, gunshots, dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So if it happened this way and there was more than one shot fired then the cop has to be charged with murder, right?

Best case scenario is the he gets the least harsh of any manslaughter charge (if that is the case.)  Probably nothing will happen to him, though.

[Trim]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

square that circle a little more for me.  Why do you think its more credible than the cops?  After all, isn't it alleged now that these two used physical intimidation to steal?  Why can't we make the jump that they used the same physical intimidation to threaten a cop and once the confrontation escalated it went to gun grabbing.

Square what circle, did you stop reading before I said the truth is likely in the middle? How in the hell could anyone take a gun from a cop in a car? Either it is in a holster or it was being pointed at Brown. If it was holstered that cop would have to be dead for Brown to reach into the car and get to his hip while seated. If it were pointed at Brown the cop certainly would have squeezed off a round before any struggle for the gun happened.

I thought they were out of the car and there the confrontation continued.  Supposedly Brown was moving away and shot, while the cop maintains the confrontation continued, gun grab, shots etc.  Or am I wrong on the narratives?

I'm not completely sure we know. The eyewitness accounts have the first shot being fired from the car so that would mean the supposed struggle happened there as well.

The police side of the story is that they were out of the car, one of the suspects shoved the police back into the car,  struggle ensued, gun went off, suspects fleed, gunshots, dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So if it happened this way and there was more than one shot fired then the cop has to be charged with murder, right?

If I'm on the jury, I convict him of second degree murder.

You'd have people on the jury with you along with copies of the statutes which would explain to you why it's 1st.

[mocat]

i think Trick Daddy would call a strong arm robbery of swisher sweets pretty "thug"-y 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Maybe I read the CNNs wrong, but I thought I read a witness account that had the first shot being fired when Brown was something like 20' away and running?

I read that the first shot was from within the car. I think the 18 year old probably shoved the cop into the car thinking he was going to try to get away, seeing as how he just robbed a gas station. The cop fired at him from within the car at close range (justified) and then shot him multiple times when he was trying to run away (not justified).

FYI, being shoved by someone who them immediately runs doesn't meet the standard for deadly force.

The first shot was inside the police car. He didn't run until after the shot was fired. Based upon what the police are saying, I think the first shot was justified, and if he had killed the kid with that shot, it's self defense. It's getting out of the car and shooting him while he's running away that constitutes murder.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Anybody else feel bad for the poor clerk?



Also, does a box of Swisher Sweets really cost $50?

[MakeItRain]

Amazing how quickly the story can change as facts come to light. So anyone still believe the friend's "the cop initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing Brown from a seated position in his patrol vehicle" bullshit story?

The only thing this changes is that Dorian Johnson isn't credible but he wasn't the only witness. The cop initiating physical confrontation from inside the vehicle is much more believable than the story that cops told, that Johnson tried to take the cop's gun who was inside of the vehicle. The truth is likely in the middle.

You're reaching now, MIR, really reaching. Stick to the shooting. That's the more questionable act at this point.

I'm reaching by staying the truth lies in the middle of a story told by a police department that hasn't been forthright with anything that happened that day and a story told by a witness who just committed a crime that put these events in motion? Okay, sure

See bold. That's where you're reaching. Again, stick to the shooting from 35 feet away.

The takeaway line was one you chose not to bold to argue a completely irrelevant point.

Ok, so we're at least moving away from the "the cop started it" bullshit? You're giving up on at least that part of the narrative, right? If so, I'm happy to move on to the "he went for my gun" part of the story.

I don't think I was ever on "the cop started it bullshit." This is a trained police officer whose actions took the life of a person, this isn't a sandbox in 3rd grade, who started it isn't important and it never has been. You have latched onto it because that's really the only ground you have to stand on, you have your basis to call the dead kid a thug, congrats. For the rest of us we are much more interested in how it finished. If Brown pushed the cop it still doesn't justify putting multiple slugs in his back. Protesters don't justify turning an American city into a war zone.

[MakeItRain]

Anybody else feel bad for the poor clerk?



Also, does a box of Swisher Sweets really cost $50?

Pretty shitty that the thug wrinkled that man's shirt.  But since we're in blame the victim mode, he should have kept his ass behind the counter, why confront two dudes over a pack of cheap cigars?

[mocat]

Also, does a box of Swisher Sweets really cost $50?

i assume it was a box of packs, maybe 10 @ $5 each

[mocat]

if the clerk was Judge'n none of this would have happened