Waters

[Rage Against the McKee]

Maybe Waters is the starter because he can come from behind when we are down multiple scores. I mean just look at how well Waters managed that 2 minute drill at the end of the game. If Sams were back there running the ball, we probably would have used 7, maybe 8 more seconds on that drive.

[Panjandrum]

Honest question I've been asking myself...

What was more painful to watch?  Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?

I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.

But, either way, they're both horrible.

[kso_FAN]

Honest question I've been asking myself...

What was more painful to watch?  Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?

I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.

But, either way, they're both horrible.

c) Waters running speed option.

We actually had some nice plays off of zone read vs UT and I can't complain about that too much, but Waters is terrible on speed option.

[steve dave]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

[EMAWmeister]

Honest question I've been asking myself...

What was more painful to watch?  Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?

I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.

But, either way, they're both horrible.

The fact that it's even called baffles me.  I get it, we want to make Waters less one dimensional. But we would be 1000x more successful if we put Sams back there and said "you know it's coming, now TRY and stop him, [redacted]".

c) Waters running speed option.

We actually had some nice plays off of zone read vs UT and I can't complain about that too much, but Waters is terrible on speed option.

[eastcat]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.

[OregonSmock]

2004 Webb/Meier redux = confirmed

[steve dave]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

his stud receiver had 1,626 receiving yards and 25 TDs in his one juco season. he was the #1 ranked juco recruit in the country by Rivals.

[steve dave]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.

frank's playing him out of position too

[CNS]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.

He has enough time to make at least one check down.  The o line sucking is overplayed, imo. 

[catzacker]

here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.

He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.

frank's playing him out of position too

 

[Spaces]

Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? 

[KanSt43]

Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? 

3-1 for sure. I don't think Waters is THAT bad. He made some great throws. (Not saying Sams couldn't have made them). But he's also the absolute WORST sometimes. Can't turn the ball over and can't run the ball timidly/like a pussy.

[Spaces]

Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? 

3-1 for sure. I don't think Waters is THAT bad. He made some great throws. (Not saying Sams couldn't have made them). But he's also the absolute WORST sometimes. Can't turn the ball over and can't run the ball timidly/like a pussy.

Both QBs are set up for failure in this little crap system we're doing now. Pick the better one (Sams) and ride or die. Go cats.

[ArchE_Cat]

We all know either QB is capable if the correct play calling is there. Waters just isn't ready/comfortable with the option yet. If they want to run option, it has to be Sams, but they have to let Sams throw. They can't continue to be this predictable. I think Waters does fine with the zone read, but he simply isn't ready to run speed option to the boundary side, so stop doing it. Also, they did nothing nothing with the zone to set up play action or a run pass option.

Snyder and staff are head over heels for Jake's efficiency as a thrower and for good reason. But, the play calling and tempo of the offense has to change to match our personnel. The OL is better and more physical when they're allowed to be aggressive. Taking forever to huddle up and call passing plays where they are in drop back protection just kills them. Also, Waters is much better when he can get the ball out in a 3 or 5 step drop or faster. They have to stop calling the slow developing pass plays they ran with Klein. Sams and Waters both have quicker releases.

Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).

It's ridiculous that the offensive staff can't match up the correct portion of that giant playbook with our current personnel. Stop calling plays for Klein, he is gone. Stop under utilizing your FB and TE, they're capable of more than just blocking. Stop castrating your OL with unaggressive/non-physical play calling. I'm not sure they have the vertical passing game figured out either, I think Lockett is just a beast and is bailing them out.

[kstatefan11]

Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? 

Probably. The difference in mentality, confidence, etc., whatever label you want to give those intangibles, gets it done the first three and most likely against UT. And if all Texas had prepped for was Sams and the run game became a liability, insert Waters who likely has a better chance for success against an unprepared D with a new DC. The bigger problem has been play calling with the two of them, but starting Sams from the get-go probably eliminates a lot of those issue, too.

[steve dave]

I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.

[CNS]

If we go with waters, we honestly need to forget all about QB runs with only extremely rare exceptions.  Change the entire plan and man the positions accordingly.

[Panjandrum]

Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).

If the coaches insist on playing Waters, it's mind-boggling that we don't actually run plays that he could, I don't know, actually be successful with.

[Harry Dunne]

what in the hell is going on.

[CNS]

Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).

If the coaches insist on playing Waters, it's mind-boggling that we don't actually run plays that he could, I don't know, actually be successful with.

Yeah, it amazes me that we haven't thrown out a bunch of short tight end stuff. 

[Panjandrum]

If we go with waters, we honestly need to forget all about QB runs with only extremely rare exceptions.  Change the entire plan and man the positions accordingly.

I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.

It makes perfect sense to play a guy that can't run the offense you won 21 games and a conference title in two years, and if you do play him, you need to change a lot of the fundamental pieces of said offense to something the team isn't built to run.

I'm going to end up having a stroke this year.  Which is ironic because all of our coaches are so old that they should have higher risk for it.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.

[EMAWmeister]

The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.

If waters plays the majority of the snaps @ ku, we seriously might lose.

[ArchE_Cat]

The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.

His interceptions are a product of poor passing game play calling and Waters trying to force the ball because he can't/won't tuck it and run. Also, he isn't comfortable with 75% or more of our QB run game. Ultimately it falls on the coaching staff to see this and correct it. If they've coached him not to force the ball, because they won't improve they're play calling, then he should have been pulled in favor of Sams (who will run instead of forcing, therefore bailing out the poor play calling).