Not about the Quarterback play.

[ksupamplemousse]

Don't make this about Sams/Waters. Can we be more sophisticated as fans? QB play was plenty good to win.

and then the thread becomes all about Sams vs Waters...cool 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Daniel, I mean, that's poor coaching on our part that Daniel, I mean, we put him in one play and he's in the endzone, uh, so, you know that, uh, that falls back on us, not utilizing him more.

. . .

[Rage Against the McKee]

Well I guess even Snyder thinks playing Waters so much was stupid, guys.

[Pett]

My list of concerns:

Offensive line. I'll have to go back and look, but I remember several instances where we were beat on a single block that blew up otherwise well executed plays.

Defense. Inability to step up in crucial situations. NDSU was something like 11-18 on third down. We miss a lot of guys, but honestly about a dozen plays I thought "Arthur would've made that tackle". So yeah, stars matter, even if you only have a few high star guys.

Playmaker at RB. Hubert isn't awful, but clearly he needs to be the secondary guy. With an offense led by waters and no dominant offensive line he may not get 500 yards this year.

Very early returns are showing I could be wrong on not thinking this is Ell vs Dunn 2.

Major concern: NDSU's 6'2" second string RB out running our safety (Barnett)

[MakeItRain]

Just seems strange to fault Waters for not being a better runner when he wouldn't have had to be if so many other aspects of our game tonight weren't terrible.

The playcalling at 21-7 required him to be a better runner.

[MakeItRain]

I think I've seen every one of Sams gametime throws, and no, he could not have thrown some of the lasers that Waters heaved tonight. He is a better runner, no doubt, but thats not the whole story. Snyder is just going to have to decide what's the better solution to paper over this shitty line.

Waters appeared to get tired or something because his accuracy got noticeably worse as the game progressed. Even on completed passes the receivers were in no position to get any yards after catch because they were diving at underthrown balls. I also don't know this for sure but he seemed to get locked of WRs running outs or flag routes. There were wide outs open up the seams all night and he never found them.

I'm going to keep posting this until _FAN or someone else who rewatches this game tells me I'm right or wrong.

[GoodForAnother]

Big concern: NDSU's 6'2" second string RB out running our safety (Barnett)

it's not just the front 7 that sucks, the secondary is pretty bad too.  really the whole defense is pretty bad, just overall.  I think, with good coaching, they might eventually be only sort of bad.  the offense probably has the potential to be good.  if bill wants to use waters go for it.  I don't care.  but if you want to roll with waters then call the right plays for him.

The playcalling at 21-7 required him to be a better runner.

bill played a huge factor with some horrific playcalling.  troubling as the only other time I can really remember questioning bill's overall playcalling for a game was 04-05.  normally he makes significantly more good calls than bad during the course of a game but tonight that was reversed, which is rare, and troubling.  bill is supposed to be good at calling plays for the players he has, and he didn't do that tonight.

[Holdin Manutz]

It was pretty obvious at halftime that jake could throw the ball, but ran into the defense everytime he took off. Snyder needs a quarterback that can break one whenever called upon and jake is not that guy. Sams would have won the game no question.  K-State doesn't win by passing.

[DOD Take 2]

My list of concerns:

Offensive line. I'll have to go back and look, but I remember several instances where we were beat on a single block that blew up otherwise well executed plays.

Defense. Inability to step up in crucial situations. NDSU was something like 11-18 on third down. We miss a lot of guys, but honestly about a dozen plays I thought "Arthur would've made that tackle". So yeah, stars matter, even if you only have a few high star guys.

Playmaker at RB. Hubert isn't awful, but clearly he needs to be the secondary guy. With an offense led by waters and no dominant offensive line he may not get 500 yards this year.

Very early returns are showing I could be wrong on not thinking this is Ell vs Dunn 2.

It looked to me like right guard play specifically was poor. A few missed blocks that ruined plays.

I also don't understand our defensive play calling. We give up tons of passes over the middle, and we do nothing different to stop it. We continue to run a cover 2 with 7 yard cushion on the wideouts. That slant becomes automatic in man cover 2 unless you bring the corners up to chuck the receiver and force the QB to throw into a tighter window.

We are asking Hubert to do things he can't do. He's not an explosive back, and with Waters at QB we are asking him to run from spread formations. He doesn't have the speed to do that, and Waters has no running threat to force the defense to respect him and open lanes for Hubert. It isn't a good sign that Rose or Robinson didn't get a chance. They must be fairly far behind Hubert, and Hubert is an above average back at best. Snyder either has to move to an air attack offense with Waters, or change QBs. He can't make Waters a runner.

[Stevesie60]

I just feel bad that we convinced Waters to come here when he could have gone to Texas or Penn State and actually fit into a good system for him.

[GoodForAnother]

another reason we lost was because when I was walking into the stadium this lady holding a huge sign started yelling at me about how I need to accept jesus into my life, and that he was the only way and stuff, and I blew her off and didn't like, even talk to jesus or give him a shot or anything, and then jesus made us lose, and it's my fault, my bad, and I won't do it again

[wabash909]

Reasons we lost:

2. D-Line/LB

This.  The crux of the problem is not the offense.

We have terrible D-Tackles and linebackers.. And are slow and unathletic across the board on defense.

We lost this game after pinning them deep on the three yard line with the punt, had all the momentum in the game, and proceded to let them break off a 70 yard run.

In the game winning drive, a FBS running back literally ran the ball right through the interior of the D-Line the extent of an 8 minute drive and we couldn't do a effing thing about it.

It's completely unacceptable that we're goddamn Conference Champions and yet again completely unable to capitalize on this success by addressing key positions of need on defense in this past recruiting class.  This identical scenario played out post 2003 and it's likely to yield the same result.

This is the problem and it has nothing to do with the goddamn QB play.

[HELLHAMMER]

another reason we lost was because when I was walking into the stadium this lady holding a huge sign started yelling at me about how I need to accept jesus into my life, and that he was the only way and stuff, and I blew her off and didn't like, even talk to jesus or give him a shot or anything, and then jesus made us lose, and it's my fault, my bad, and I won't do it again

You did the right thing.  It's not your fault that the team turned into dog crap.  I blame religion.

[kim carnes]

The defense and offensive line aren't changing but a QB who can run can make it not so obvious that they suck.  But by all means keep discussing how the defense and offensive line lost the game. 

[Mr Bread]

I just feel bad that we convinced Waters to come here when he could have gone to Texas or Penn State and actually fit into a good system for him.

Really wonder what they told him they were going to run.  If they were upfront about all the running then he deserves what he got for not being honest with himself that he can't do it or being a dumbass thinking he could.  He needs a Chase Daniel offense.       

[chum1]

I guess the bottom line for me is that the people who think Sams would have made much of a difference necessarily fail to acknowledge that the rest of the team played like dogshit.  That's incomprehensible to me.

[eastcat]

We wouldn't have scored 21 points with Sams. The only time we moved the ball more than 4 yards was with Waters passing.

[PIPE]

Kim Carnes, if you don't shut up I am going to punch you in your nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My take:

Whoever thinks Sams can throw the rock like Waters is a tard. And I am not talking about a beautiful spiral, I am talking about reading plays and actually hitting the receiver in the hands.  Waters' passing last night blows Klein's out of the water. Obviously, Waters is not much of a runner.  So what does everyone want? Sams may have been like 6-22 w/ 82 yards passing, but maybe 150 yards rushing.  Is that what you want?  Maybe, that would have kept our shitty defense off the field longer, but maybe we would of had a lot more 3 and outs, which guess what, puts your defense out there more and we lose by 20 instead of 3.

Our line was godawful....not disputable. Even when Waters dropped back to pass, most of the time he had time to blink and he was in scramble mode.  Lucas got beat. Rooker got beat.  Interior line got blown up. No question this was my biggest negative from the game.

Our d line and LB's are godawful.....not disputable.  Are you telling me that we don't have one single LB on our roster that is faster than Walker, Slaughter, and Truman?  If so, our recruiting continues on it's normal trend, which has always been shitty......I agree A. Brown would have steamrolled a lot of the plays that Walker was chasing.  Man, he is sssslllllloooooooowwwww! Our front four will rush the same way every play and it always formed a nice pocked for their QB to sit there and drink coffee and take a crap and then still make a pass.  I can remember just a few blitzes in the 2nd half, which falls on coaching......next

Our coaching was shitty.......remember when we had it 4th and 3 and went for it and Waters did a draw and got one yard?  I remember b4 that play telling my son they should be Sams in and just toss sweep it and have him sprint to the marker...too fast not to get it....Remember when, for pretty much the whole game they had a 3rd and long, and we just rushed 4 players, and he had all day to throw?  T. Newman could not have covered his guy for that long.  I kept saying to myself, "bring the heat and get to this guy, cause you sure as hell are not w/ just four guys"  They never did in the 2nd half.....unbelievable!!!!  What was NDSU doing? They were blitzing the crap out of our shitty OL and our QB and no time to itch his butt!!!!  I also loved the call with Hubert in the Wildcat dancing around...that was all 

2nd, and the one time I will agree w this Kim Carnes dude, is that we need speed in the backfield behind whoever plays QB....Hubert has no speed at all.  I think him and Walker have been training together at dunkin and donuts....

Hell Zimmerman had a shitty game too, took bad angles, missed tackles.......This is one game but man there are ALOT of glaring issues to take notice of.  I would love to see some gifs of our OL protection though, that was a riot.

[kitten_mittons]

I'm curious why everyone on team waters thinks sams sucks at passing. Is it his 75% completion percentage?

[kim carnes]

I'm curious why everyone on team waters thinks sams sucks at passing. Is it his 75% completion percentage?

racism

[steve dave]

Sams may have been like 6-22 w/ 82 yards passing, but maybe 150 yards rushing.  Is that what you want?  Maybe, that would have kept our shitty defense off the field longer, but maybe we would of had a lot more 3 and outs, which guess what, puts your defense out there more and we lose by 20 instead of 3.

fantastic use of made up stats and hypothetical post game analysis to back up your argument here. what a rough ridin' dumbass.

[steve dave]

I guess the bottom line for me is that the people who think Sams would have made much of a difference necessarily fail to acknowledge that the rest of the team played like dogshit.  That's incomprehensible to me.

agree

[Pett]

I would love to see some gifs of our OL protection though, that was a riot.

This still shocks me. Seems like NDSU took Baylor's defensive game plan vs. us last season and blitzed constantly

[Ira Hayes]

Reasons we lost:

2. D-Line/LB

This.  The crux of the problem is not the offense.

We have terrible D-Tackles and linebackers.. And are slow and unathletic across the board on defense.

We lost this game after pinning them deep on the three yard line with the punt, had all the momentum in the game, and proceded to let them break off a 70 yard run.

In the game winning drive, a FBS running back literally ran the ball right through the interior of the D-Line the extent of an 8 minute drive and we couldn't do a effing thing about it.

It's completely unacceptable that we're goddamn Conference Champions and yet again completely unable to capitalize on this success by addressing key positions of need on defense in this past recruiting class.  This identical scenario played out post 2003 and it's likely to yield the same result.

This is the problem and it has nothing to do with the goddamn QB play.

This.

If NDSU were as good as Fresno State was back in 2004 last night would have been a rout.

The offense will get fixed. I don't think the defense can be salvaged with the players we have.

[Rage Against the McKee]

We wouldn't have scored 21 points with Sams. The only time we moved the ball more than 4 yards was with Waters passing.

Well, there was that time that Sams had his 20 yard TD run.