Not about the Quarterback play.

[nicname]

How did Hubert do with the Oline?

Poorly, because he sucks.  OLine is getting blamed because of a lack of skill at skill positions.

I agree, but Sams would have made Hubert look good, too. Just like Klein did.

I didn't have a great viewing angle, and couldn't figure out if it was Hubert or the line that was not getting the job done.  My assumption was Hubert just because the line seemed so solid last year and returned basically everyone.  Obv.  some of you have voiced different opinions on what transpired during the game.  I don't disagree, but the conclusion that I'm kind of drawing is that Hubert just isn't the type of runner who can carry the load without a legitimate threat back there with him at QB. 

I should put this next part in another post, but I'm lazy.

It looked like Water threw the ball well for a lot of the game.  The two deep balls were beautiful and the scrambling play where he hit a receiver down the sideline was probably his best play all night.  I also liked his throw on what looked like a 15 yd out.  He seems to be able to make all the throws. 

But what about the sacks?  Not getting rid of the ball quick enough, or inadequate protection from the o-line?  I hope not both. 

I like Sams.  I'm a Sams fan, and would have liked to have seen him used more, maybe given his own couple of series.  I'm not going to BID about Waters though. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

QB play was much better than our O-line, RB, entire D, and special teams. That's not saying much, but hanging this loss on QB play? Please.

get the eff out of here.  just b/c a bunch of other players sucked doesn't excuse the QB play.  some of you are really rough ridin' dumb.

Not sure we're actually in disagreement. Of course we could have eked this out with better QB play, it's just mumped Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to say that that was even close to the main reason we lost.

the QB is the only thing we could actually change u rough ridin' idiot.  of course our defense sucks, but thats not going to change.

Ok, so you're blaming Snyder then. Gotcha.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

packers line sucks pretty hard, fyi.  can't we just all be sad together without fighting too? 

[Rage Against the McKee]

How did Hubert do with the Oline?

Poorly, because he sucks.  OLine is getting blamed because of a lack of skill at skill positions.

I agree, but Sams would have made Hubert look good, too. Just like Klein did.

I didn't have a great viewing angle, and couldn't figure out if it was Hubert or the line that was not getting the job done.  My assumption was Hubert just because the line seemed so solid last year and returned basically everyone.  Obv.  some of you have voiced different opinions on what transpired during the game.  I don't disagree, but the conclusion that I'm kind of drawing is that Hubert just isn't the type of runner who can carry the load without a legitimate threat back there with him at QB. 

I should put this next part in another post, but I'm lazy.

It looked like Water threw the ball well for a lot of the game.  The two deep balls were beautiful and the scrambling play where he hit a receiver down the sideline was probably his best play all night.  I also liked his throw on what looked like a 15 yd out.  He seems to be able to make all the throws. 

But what about the sacks?  Not getting rid of the ball quick enough, or inadequate protection from the o-line?  I hope not both. 

I like Sams.  I'm a Sams fan, and would have liked to have seen him used more, maybe given his own couple of series.  I'm not going to BID about Waters though.

Waters was given an entire game to make plays and made 3. Sams was given 2 plays to make plays and made 1.

[Acceleration Man]

think of all the other beautiful zone dashes we could have saw.  instead we got waters getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage.  we can't open up the run by passing because teams will (just as NDSt did) just say "eff it" and blitz the rough ridin' crap out of us and watch jakey fall down.

Seemed like we either 1.) didn't have a good safety valve for Waters to check to on these plays or 2.) he didn't look for it. Just watching the game, it seemed more the former, which would really nullify the all-on blitz. However, would need to go back to those plays and look at the routes more closely. _Fan???

[Legit Elite]

We lost for three reasons...

We did not establish the run
Our front 7 blows
NDS owned the t.o.p. against said front 7 that blows

[nicname]

How did Hubert do with the Oline?

Poorly, because he sucks.  OLine is getting blamed because of a lack of skill at skill positions.

I agree, but Sams would have made Hubert look good, too. Just like Klein did.

I didn't have a great viewing angle, and couldn't figure out if it was Hubert or the line that was not getting the job done.  My assumption was Hubert just because the line seemed so solid last year and returned basically everyone.  Obv.  some of you have voiced different opinions on what transpired during the game.  I don't disagree, but the conclusion that I'm kind of drawing is that Hubert just isn't the type of runner who can carry the load without a legitimate threat back there with him at QB. 

I should put this next part in another post, but I'm lazy.

It looked like Water threw the ball well for a lot of the game.  The two deep balls were beautiful and the scrambling play where he hit a receiver down the sideline was probably his best play all night.  I also liked his throw on what looked like a 15 yd out.  He seems to be able to make all the throws. 

But what about the sacks?  Not getting rid of the ball quick enough, or inadequate protection from the o-line?  I hope not both. 

I like Sams.  I'm a Sams fan, and would have liked to have seen him used more, maybe given his own couple of series.  I'm not going to BID about Waters though.

Waters was given an entire game to make plays and made 3. Sams was given 2 plays to make plays and made 1.

The only thing that worries me is that it could mean that Sams is a one-trick-pony.  I really don't want that to be true.  If he isn't though, something tells me he would be out there?  I dunno. 

[chum1]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

[Rage Against the McKee]

How did Hubert do with the Oline?

Poorly, because he sucks.  OLine is getting blamed because of a lack of skill at skill positions.

I agree, but Sams would have made Hubert look good, too. Just like Klein did.

I didn't have a great viewing angle, and couldn't figure out if it was Hubert or the line that was not getting the job done.  My assumption was Hubert just because the line seemed so solid last year and returned basically everyone.  Obv.  some of you have voiced different opinions on what transpired during the game.  I don't disagree, but the conclusion that I'm kind of drawing is that Hubert just isn't the type of runner who can carry the load without a legitimate threat back there with him at QB. 

I should put this next part in another post, but I'm lazy.

It looked like Water threw the ball well for a lot of the game.  The two deep balls were beautiful and the scrambling play where he hit a receiver down the sideline was probably his best play all night.  I also liked his throw on what looked like a 15 yd out.  He seems to be able to make all the throws. 

But what about the sacks?  Not getting rid of the ball quick enough, or inadequate protection from the o-line?  I hope not both. 

I like Sams.  I'm a Sams fan, and would have liked to have seen him used more, maybe given his own couple of series.  I'm not going to BID about Waters though.

Waters was given an entire game to make plays and made 3. Sams was given 2 plays to make plays and made 1.

The only thing that worries me is that it could mean that Sams is a one-trick-pony.  I really don't want that to be true.  If he isn't though, something tells me he would be out there?  I dunno.

Sams throws a nice ball. I really think Bill planned on starting him for the Texas game and just didn't think that Waters would be this shitty.

[Cartierfor3]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

This. Its like 33 and KC assume that Sams would have Waters 21-29 for 280 and add 17 for 175 on the ground. Probably would've ran for more, passed for less, and still lost because our lines suck.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Just seems strange to fault Waters for not being a better runner when he wouldn't have had to be if so many other aspects of our game tonight weren't terrible.

I think it's safe to say that Sams wouldn't have had nearly the passing yards tonight. Would he have bettered that with his superior running ability, especially in short yardage conversion situations? That's really tough to say. I'll probably just leave that one up to guy with his name on he stadium. Sorry for the tuckage.

[PandaXpanda]

Jake is not the one. He can be, possibly, but not at the pace he played tonight. He has a quick release but is smaller and slower than he thinks he is.

[Acceleration Man]

It's his first game.

Remember 10-7 EKU? That wasn't pretty either.

[nicname]

Waters throws a pretty ball too, but obviously if Sams has the ability to make the reads and the throws then his other skills make him the better choice.  The fact that whenever he is in we run the same play gives me pause in believing that.  I want to though. 

What I really want is a workhorse back and a FB that will blow people up and establish a ground game.  It looks as thought the only way we will ever establish that this year is going to Sams, which could be great.  Though embarrassing, this game really means nothing.  Waters or Sams, there is still hope.

The D is concerning as well.  All game I was lambasting them in my mind for giving up those passes over the middle and short dump-offs with all the extra cushion.  On the way home though, I thought to myself, "We really gave up a ton of those passing plays last year and the year before as well."  What we didn't do previously was get pushed around up front as much and were really able to make big plays, especially near and in the red zone.

[catzacker]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

yes.. sams = more running = more TOP = less time on the field for our shitty defense

[Rage Against the McKee]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

This. Its like 33 and KC assume that Sams would have Waters 21-29 for 280 and add 17 for 175 on the ground. Probably would've ran for more, passed for less, and still lost because our lines suck.

JFC. Sams would have thrown for less, run for about 200 more, and opened up the field for Hubert to run for about 50 more. We would have won by 10 at minimum

[kim carnes]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

This. Its like 33 and KC assume that Sams would have Waters 21-29 for 280 and add 17 for 175 on the ground. Probably would've ran for more, passed for less, and still lost because our lines suck.

JFC. Sams would have thrown for less, run for about 200 more, and opened up the field for Hubert to run for about 50 more. We would have won by 10 at minimum

there is no point in arguing with the blind.

[Rage Against the McKee]

It's his first game.

Remember 10-7 EKU? That wasn't pretty either.

That game wasn't pretty because we had nobody on the field with big play ability. The Missouri State game last year would have been similar if we didn't have Sams to run it up for us.

[wetwillie]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

yes.. sams = more running = more TOP = less time on the field for our shitty defense

I think a QB change is inevitable for this very reason.

[kim carnes]

It's his first game.

Remember 10-7 EKU? That wasn't pretty either.

Our running game isn't going to get better, so the fact that its his first game is irrelevant.  We have to be able to run the ball, we have to start Sams.

[Frankenklein]

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Maybe team Sams is right and he's this magical dual threat wonder. I hope they're right, because unless he can maintain a decent passing game to keep the D honest, we're gonna get our crap kicked in with this line, Sams of no.

[puniraptor]

i couldnt bear reading up on this thread, but we definitely need to talk crap on the defense too

[_33]

The QB is the only thing that could have been different.  What do you rough ridin' idiots not understand?

I think what is being called into question is the suggestion that Sams makes all of the other problems go away.

This. Its like 33 and KC assume that Sams would have Waters 21-29 for 280 and add 17 for 175 on the ground. Probably would've ran for more, passed for less, and still lost because our lines suck.

Face it, you fell it love with the idea that Waters was an elite passer with the ability to run.  We all did.  But he isn't.  Sams could make all the throws waters made and create on the ground, which would have won us the game.

[Acceleration Man]

Face it, you fell it love with the idea that Waters was an elite passer with the ability to run.  We all did.  But he isn't.  Sams could make all the throws waters made and create on the ground, which would have won us the game.

If this is true, then explain why he didn't get the playing time.