Buy American

[Rage Against the McKee]

there's nothing unsustainable about a 19k/year pension.

right

There might be if you become eligible for that pension at, say, age 55. People don't typically retire at age 55 in the real world.

They probably get more than 19k/year if they retire at 65. What a bunch of assholes. They should just find a job that makes them work until they die. It's not fair to the taxpayers.

[sys]

the latest plan has pension cuts coming and bondholders getting paid first.

should prolly be oldest first, in both pensions and bonds.

[sys]

Evidently, it is unsustainable. The city has approximately $3 billion in unfunded pension obligations. And this ignores completely "other post-employment benefits" for city employees - namely healthcare - which currently has a $6.4 billion shortfall. This is not necessarily unusual, by the way. Many others cities, large and small, have similar deficits.

it's unsustainable in a failing city.  in the almost every other city in the country that'd be fine.  in the cities that have significant unfunded liabilities in ca, the mean pensions are far, far higher than 19k.  a number of ca cities may have spending problems, it looks like detroit has a revenue problem.

[OregonSmock]

When a quarter of a million people leave a city within five years, there are going to be consequences.  But yeah, let's blame it all on the unions and poor people.

[sonofdaxjones]

Keep using the "they're blaming the poor people" meme Beems.

 

[p1k3]

Union Thug negotiated public pensions are Ponzi schemes.

[Kat Kid]

Union Thug negotiated public pensions are Ponzi schemes.

two meaningless tropes in one sentence is a pretty solid effort.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Union Thug negotiated public pensions are Ponzi schemes.

two meaningless tropes in one sentence is a pretty solid effort.

Meaningless?! The proof is in California.

http://www.ai-cio.com/channel/NEWSMAKERS/Californian_Unfunded_Liabilities__Double_What_We_Thought.html

[Kat Kid]

Union Thug negotiated public pensions are Ponzi schemes.

two meaningless tropes in one sentence is a pretty solid effort.

Meaningless?! The proof is in California.

http://www.ai-cio.com/channel/NEWSMAKERS/Californian_Unfunded_Liabilities__Double_What_We_Thought.html

command-f

"union thugs" "Ponzi scheme" 

nope, no hits.

[sys]

Meaningless?! The proof is in California.

http://www.ai-cio.com/channel/NEWSMAKERS/Californian_Unfunded_Liabilities__Double_What_We_Thought.html

jfc.  i mean, i think i've posted a number of times lolling at how stupid ca cities have been/still are, but the above article is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

"omg, if you arbitrarily lower the discount rate, then suddenly these pensions look even more underfunded!"

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

How do you arbitrarily lower an arbitrary discount rate?

This thread has derailed.  Back to laughing at Detroit and the failed leftist economic model.  Elect leaders, award yourself limitless entitlements, bankrupt business, bankrupt taxpayers, bankrupt the city, demand full benefits, claim nobody couldhave seen it coming and/or something "unfair" happened.  Isn't this the theme of Atlas Shrugged???

The most pathetic thing here is the "sympathetic high ground" katkid is taking for da poh work in' manperson.  These people exhausted the cities coffers at the expense of the health, safety and welfare of the citizens it was supposed to serve.  What other purpose does a municipal government serve?  Pathetic.

[sys]

How do you arbitrarily lower an arbitrary discount rate?

if it's an arbitrary rate, how do you lower or raise it non-arbitrarily?

[sys]

award yourself limitless entitlements

personally, i'd have awarded myself more than 19k/year, if i'd have broken free of all limits.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

there's nothing unsustainable about a 19k/year pension.

Average probably includes the guy hired 3 days before they filed BK.

The bonds they floated just to fund the pension a couple years back were rediculous.  Bondholders only deserve 20 cents on the dollar on that crap.

Well the latest plan has pension cuts coming and bondholders getting paid first.

Pretty sure this is false, its a reorganization so all creditors would have to agree, but if were talking about the bond issue to pay the pension benefits the pension should have subordinated (and probably did).

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

How do you arbitrarily lower an arbitrary discount rate?

if it's an arbitrary rate, how do you lower or raise it non-arbitrarily?

Just pointing out how disingenuous your point was.

Also I'm not taking the 19000 as fact, since it likely includes people less than 1 year on the job who'd be fully vested at around $100 a year in retirement benefits.

[p1k3]

Elect leaders, award yourself limitless entitlements, bankrupt business, bankrupt taxpayers, bankrupt the city, demand full benefits, claim nobody couldhave seen it coming and/or something "unfair" happened.  Isn't this the theme of Atlas Shrugged???

this is exactly what happened. lol at Union Thug Bosses and the way they promised their "highly skilled" workers they would have pensions forever

[Kat Kid]

Elect leaders, award yourself limitless entitlements, bankrupt business, bankrupt taxpayers, bankrupt the city, demand full benefits, claim nobody couldhave seen it coming and/or something "unfair" happened.  Isn't this the theme of Atlas Shrugged???

this is exactly what happened. lol at Union Thug Bosses and the way they promised their "highly skilled" workers they would have pensions forever

"lol"ing at the very small number of people that may have been corrupt or lazy or whatever that you believe screwed over tens of thousands of other people directly and over a million people indirectly is morally bankrupt.  What is wrong with you?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

KatKid sympathizes for everyone at Enron not named ken lay.

[Kat Kid]

KatKid sympathizes for everyone at Enron not named ken lay.

No, but I absolutely feel bad for pensioners or retirees whose fund managers or brokers had them in Enron.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

KatKid sympathizes for everyone at Enron not named ken lay.

No, but I absolutely feel bad for pensioners or retirees whose fund managers or brokers had them in Enron.

Just not the thousands of people at Enron who had nothing to do with the fraud.  Good to know your sympathies began and end with union trolls.

[Kat Kid]

KatKid sympathizes for everyone at Enron not named ken lay.

No, but I absolutely feel bad for pensioners or retirees whose fund managers or brokers had them in Enron.

Just not the thousands of people at Enron who had nothing to do with the fraud.  Good to know your sympathies began and end with union trolls.

I didn't make a full list of all people I feel bad for, I just made the point that there were plenty of people impacted by the Enron collapse that had nothing to do with Enron.  Just like there are plenty of entrepreneurs in Detroit that have never sniffed a pension and have never voted for a crook that have suffered.

[michigancat]

Meant to post this last week: http://mobile.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/24/detroit_immigration_more_people_can_save_a_city.html

[ben ji]

While the average pension is $30,000 for public safety and $19,000 for other municipal workers, these figures are skewed by workers who retire early with reduced benefits or on disability. A quarter of retired officers receive disability pensions, which pay two-thirds of salary. Fifty-four retirees are under the age of 20 and earn pensions that average $23,300, according to a 2011 actuarial report.

WTF

Also

The actuaries mention as a footnote that the retirement tables "may include records with defective birth dates." Detroit's pension funds, like most of its municipal agencies, keep sloppy records. About 70% of the city's financial journal entries are booked manually.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324783204578624161224137252.html

[puniraptor]

manual book keeping CREATES JOBS

[Kat Kid]

While the average pension is $30,000 for public safety and $19,000 for other municipal workers, these figures are skewed by workers who retire early with reduced benefits or on disability. A quarter of retired officers receive disability pensions, which pay two-thirds of salary. Fifty-four retirees are under the age of 20 and earn pensions that average $23,300, according to a 2011 actuarial report.

WTF

Also

The actuaries mention as a footnote that the retirement tables "may include records with defective birth dates." Detroit's pension funds, like most of its municipal agencies, keep sloppy records. About 70% of the city's financial journal entries are booked manually.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324783204578624161224137252.html