Buy American

[CNS]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/18/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy/index.html

[Stupid Fitz]

Should prob bail them out.

[EMAWican]

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2009/1118/new-tale-of-detroits-woe-silverdome-sold-for-583000

They had two offers for $12 and $18 million previously, and went to auction instead.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2009/1118/new-tale-of-detroits-woe-silverdome-sold-for-583000

They had two offers for $12 and $18 million previously, and went to auction instead.   

The house flipper who bought that is going to make a fortune.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

[sonofdaxjones]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Agreed.  Apples and Oranges between lower wage civil servants expecting a reasonable retirement after years of service and retired union workers from say the auto industry.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

I wonder if they had opportunities to renegotiate and save the city. Union bosses don't usually even consider such requests.

[steve dave]

you guys all seem to have shitloads of experience dealing with unions. meanwhile, I have none. I will just lurk here.

[sonofdaxjones]

Is this a bad time to bring up the 50 years of Democratic Political Domination of the City of Detroit?

[EMAWmeister]

Mitt Romney is such an bad person. "Let Detroit go bankrupt?" Easy for you to say, Mr. Grey Poupon.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

you guys all seem to have shitloads of experience dealing with unions. meanwhile, I have none. I will just lurk here.

Tom the Bug should have something about this soon, so you'll be able to join in the convo. I know that rich creepy ass dog will be crushing the poor union dudes.

[bubbles4ksu]

Those American workers should have been happy with the wages and benefits paid to the Chinese. They're getting what they deserve for putting their greasy hands in those laudable capitalists pockets.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

[Tobias]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

in my little experience (4 years city, 2 private), the gap seems larger for skilled positions and less so for relatively unskilled.  i enjoyed my experience and felt it positive but just couldn't justify the pay.

[p1k3]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

That's the Union's fault for promising money that wouldn't be there in the future. Unions lure workers in with all these promises and many of them end up being unsustainable.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Those American workers should have been happy with the wages and benefits paid to the Chinese. They're getting what they deserve for putting their greasy hands in those laudable capitalists pockets.

I assume you're talking about private industry, which is unrelated to Detroit's bankruptcy. But yeah, union greed contributed to the auto industry woes too. And we bailed them out.

[Headinjun]

Those American workers should have been happy with the wages and benefits paid to the Chinese. They're getting what they deserve for putting their greasy hands in those laudable capitalists pockets.

I assume you're talking about private industry, which is unrelated to Detroit's bankruptcy. But yeah, union greed contributed to the auto industry woes too. And we bailed them out.

Private industry didn't take advantage of the trade policies they lobbied for?

If auto workers get their jobs shipped to Mexico, then the city loses the sales tax revenue from their consumption spending. 

You're smart bro, so tap into your macroeconomic side and think about it a little more.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Photo Essay: Detroit's Beautiful, Horrible Decline

Here's an idea, have Detroit shrink its boundaries by about 2/3rds and turn the rest into a movie lot for post-apocalyptic and disaster films.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

Usually they have a lower base salary, but the benefits make their compensation competitive and often better than the private sector. I'm not really sure why that matters, though. Do you turn down a job because the pay is better than the average in your field?

[Kat Kid]

Before I get started here: In every collective bargaining arrangement ever, there are two sides that come to an agreement.  Why are management's shitty negotiating skills never blamed?  How could you possibly blame stud union negotiators for getting themselves a good deal? 

As far as the pensions go: It is completely outrageous that pensioners with their pensions guaranteed by the state constitution are having their livelihoods threatened by an unelected administrator so that the city can pay off their bondholders.  Hopefully that gets resolved.

As far as the city goes, KSU has it about right.  The city is way too big physically.  They need to empower neighborhoods to become independent wards with their own budgeting under a city umbrella or unincorporate most of the city and just let them figure it out. 

As for the political leadership: GTFO.  The administration of Kwame Kilpatrick and co. was unbelievably corrupt and disastrous for Detroit.  To claim that dude was some sort of liberal technocrat or ideologue is wrong.  He was a corrupt fool that bilked the city for millions.  Read the wikipedia article.  It is insane.  He is less likable, more corrupt and more ruthless than the Baltimore mayor depicted in the Wire, except it all actually happened.

I get disgusted by the gleeful finger wagging and high minded lectures from people watching a great American city get dismantled brick from brick.  The people of Detroit were not the architects of their own destruction.  There is plenty of blame to go around, but I have no time for the kind of bad person that puts it on a rough ridin' assembly line worker.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

Usually they have a lower base salary, but the benefits make their compensation competitive and often better than the private sector. I'm not really sure why that matters, though. Do you turn down a job because the pay is better than the average in your field?

Not necessarily, but by the same token, nobody forced them to join the ranks of the groaning bureaucracy, and one might have thought twice before taking a job paid for with tax dollars where a good chunk of the compensation is in the form of future payments from a ponzi-scheme pension fund. (I think this is the high-minded finger wagging to which KK refers. )

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Before I get started here: In every collective bargaining arrangement ever, there are two sides that come to an agreement.  Why are management's shitty negotiating skills never blamed?  How could you possibly blame stud union negotiators for getting themselves a good deal? 

That's not true with regard to the state. And that's a huge part of the problem with public-sector unions. Those government officials are elected by the same people they are supposedly negotiating with.

[Kat Kid]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

Usually they have a lower base salary, but the benefits make their compensation competitive and often better than the private sector. I'm not really sure why that matters, though. Do you turn down a job because the pay is better than the average in your field?

Not necessarily, but by the same token, nobody forced them to join the ranks of the groaning bureaucracy, and one might have thought twice before taking a job paid for with tax dollars where a good chunk of the compensation is in the form of future payments from a ponzi-scheme pension fund. (I think this is the high-minded finger wagging to which KK refers. )

Right.  Also, no one forces any of the legislatures to actually fund what they promise.  You know who always funds what is legally required of them?  The workers.  Because it is withheld from their paychecks.  So I'd just like to see an America where contracts were held up by both sides.

[Shacks]

I like how the unions are all super concerned about how their extravagant benefits, which helped bankrupt the city, may now be in jeopardy because the city is... bankrupt. Don't worry boys, someway, somehow, the taxpayers will bail you out in the end.

I would be super concerned about losing the benefits if I were retirement age and I had been spending the past 30-40 years working a low wage job with the understanding that a pension was part of the deal.

Do city employees make less than similarly educated private employees? I know they work a hell of a lot less hours.

Usually they have a lower base salary, but the benefits make their compensation competitive and often better than the private sector. I'm not really sure why that matters, though. Do you turn down a job because the pay is better than the average in your field?

Not necessarily, but by the same token, nobody forced them to join the ranks of the groaning bureaucracy, and one might have thought twice before taking a job paid for with tax dollars where a good chunk of the compensation is in the form of future payments from a ponzi-scheme pension fund. (I think this is the high-minded finger wagging to which KK refers. )

Right.  Also, no one forces any of the legislatures to actually fund what they promise.  You know who always funds what is legally required of them?  The workers.  Because it is withheld from their paychecks.  So I'd just like to see an America where contracts were held up by both sides.

It really is amazing how much Americans criticize the labor side in disputes like this and how little they demand of the capital/management side