2013 QB Competition: Sams vs. Waters

[yoga-like_abana]

Is DSams just a change of pace quarterback or can he put together long drives and effectively run an offense. who rough ridin' knows.. but I'd like to see it some point in the season

[MakeItRain]

Josh Freeman was fantastic.

Yup! He also excelled at throwing INT's too. Just like Jake!!! http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-freeman-1.html

If Jake can finish out the season with a 3:1 TD:INT to match Josh I will praise the crap out of him

Josh also had 400 rushing yards his junior year.  Not a chance Jake comes within 500 yards of that.

Josh haters also have him no credit for his feet, again likely the same ones saying Jake can run.

[DQ12]

In chat, we were talking about how Waters is like a girl that checks all the boxes, but in the end, you just know she's meant for some one else.

[Cartierfor3]

I don't really remember anyone wishing sunshine would start over Josh Freeman.

[Mr Bread]

In chat, we were talking about how Waters is like a girl that checks all the boxes, but in the end, you just know she's meant for some one else.

Maybe you should put him in touch with Beckman.  He might like that zany Cubit offense.  I mean who won't they throw it to!?  Right?  Yeah.       

[Skipper44]

Josh Freeman was fantastic.

Yup! He also excelled at throwing INT's too. Just like Jake!!! http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-freeman-1.html

If Jake can finish out the season with a fizz:1 TD:INT to match Josh I will praise the crap out of him

Josh also had 400 rushing yards his junior year.  Not a chance Jake comes within 500 yards of that.

Josh haters also have him no credit for his feet, again likely the same ones saying Jake can run.

Freeman has the big arm that makes teams defend the whole field - Waters may be more accurate but he has yet to make a throw that makes me think he has above average Big 12 arm strength.

This team will not run the football in conference play with him at QB - we are currently averaging 3.2 ypc (2.2 if you take out Sams carries ), lowest since 2005 

[Skipper44]

In chat, we were talking about how Waters is like a girl that checks all the boxes, but in the end, you just know she's meant for some one else.

Maybe you should put him in touch with Beckman.  He might like that zany Cubit offense.  I mean who won't they throw it to!?  Right?  Yeah.       

We would trade him straight up for a LB that can run

[MakeItRain]

Tucks were furious, talking about how he was wronged,  RP sabotoged sunshine because he promised his golden boy he would be the starter and that's why he decommitted. Some even said it was because Josh was black, great bbsing season on GPC.

[MakeItRain]

Josh Freeman was fantastic.

Yup! He also excelled at throwing INT's too. Just like Jake!!! http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-freeman-1.html

If Jake can finish out the season with a fizz:1 TD:INT to match Josh I will praise the crap out of him

Josh also had 400 rushing yards his junior year.  Not a chance Jake comes within 500 yards of that.

Josh haters also have him no credit for his feet, again likely the same ones saying Jake can run.

Freeman has the big arm that makes teams defend the whole field - Waters may be more accurate but he has yet to make a throw that makes me think he has above average Big 12 arm strength.

This team will not run the football in conference play with him at QB - we are currently averaging 3.2 ypc (2.2 if you take out Sams carries ), lowest since 2005 

Jake hasn't gotten the chance to show off his arm, we're running eomething that resembles the WCO.

[DQ12]

The only thing I was pissed about re. Freeman's first year is that we waited so long to burn the redshirt (which wasn't until the Baylor game IIRC).  Either go with him earlier or redshirt the entire way, I thought.

[EMAWmeister]

I'm not even necessarily advocating that we start Sams. I just think he needs a more defined role in the gameplan.  He has been subbed in these past few weeks with seemingly no rhyme or reason, just kind of a random "switch em up".  FWIW, I think the coaches do have a real plan for him, but are too afraid to show a damn thing in the OOC games.

[ChiComCat]

The only thing I was pissed about re. Freeman's first year is that we waited so long to burn the redshirt (which wasn't until the Baylor game IIRC).  Either go with him earlier or redshirt the entire way, I thought.

We played Freeman in the non-con against crappy teams that year.  He didn't start, but the RS was burned early

[DQ12]

The only thing I was pissed about re. Freeman's first year is that we waited so long to burn the redshirt (which wasn't until the Baylor game IIRC).  Either go with him earlier or redshirt the entire way, I thought.

We played Freeman in the non-con against crappy teams that year.  He didn't start, but the RS was burned early

You're right.  I stand corrected.

He threw four incomplete passes and an INT against FAU in the second game of the season.

[GoodForAnother]

Is DSams just a change of pace quarterback or can he put together long drives and effectively run an offense. who rough ridin' knows.. but I'd like to see it some point in the season

hi y-l_a,

I agree with your post

your bud,
gfa

[Gooch]

I'm not even necessarily advocating that we start Sams. I just think he needs a more defined role in the gameplan.  He has been subbed in these past few weeks with seemingly no rhyme or reason, just kind of a random "switch em up".  FWIW, I think the coaches do have a real plan for him, but are too afraid to show a damn thing in the OOC games.

People give this talking point way to much run. It's ok to say Bill is rough ridin' up. In no way do i believe he has this super secret plan.

[Skipper44]

The only thing I was pissed about re. Freeman's first year is that we waited so long to burn the redshirt (which wasn't until the Baylor game IIRC).  Either go with him earlier or redshirt the entire way, I thought.

We played Freeman in the non-con against crappy teams that year.  He didn't start, but the RS was burned early

You're right.  I stand corrected.

He threw four incomplete passes and an INT against FAU in the second game of the season.

The Baylor game was really the only one a case can be made that we would of won if JF would have played more

[Panjandrum]

Jake hasn't gotten the chance to show off his arm, we're running eomething that resembles the WCO.

Yeah, the possession passiing game seems really odd.  If we're trying to keep the chains moving and run clock, just use a QB run offense.

Also, I think this is why Jake will struggle in the red zone.  Our smallish receivers just aren't going to get the kind of separation in the red zone that will make use of this kind of offensive philosophy.

[Panjandrum]

At the very least, I'd like to see Sams in the following situations:

1) Red Zone possessions
2) If we have a lead in the 3rd quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession
3) If we have a lead in the 4th quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession

This way we can use the west coast passing attack when Waters has open field to get the ball to his receivers, and when we get into a short field, we switch over to Sams and use him Belldozer style so we can score more TDs since his threat to run the ball will force the defense to move some safeties and LBs into rush defense and maybe open up the TE, RB or FB a little more for use in the red zone passing game.

[Gooch]

I want to see Sams start, play the entire game, and dance in the endzone right in the haterz fat faces.

[420seriouscat69]

I want to see Sams start, play the entire game, and dance in the endzone right in the haterz fat faces.

Who are the haterz?

[Rage Against the McKee]

At the very least, I'd like to see Sams in the following situations:

1) Red Zone possessions
2) If we have a lead in the 3rd quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession
3) If we have a lead in the 4th quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession

This way we can use the west coast passing attack when Waters has open field to get the ball to his receivers, and when we get into a short field, we switch over to Sams and use him Belldozer style so we can score more TDs since his threat to run the ball will force the defense to move some safeties and LBs into rush defense and maybe open up the TE, RB or FB a little more for use in the red zone passing game.

I just worry that playing that much Waters puts us at a high risk of getting blown out by good teams.

[Skipper44]

At the very least, I'd like to see Sams in the following situations:

1) Red Zone possessions
2) If we have a lead in the 3rd quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession
fizz) If we have a lead in the 4th quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession

This way we can use the west coast passing attack when Waters has open field to get the ball to his receivers, and when we get into a short field, we switch over to Sams and use him Belldozer style so we can score more TDs since his threat to run the ball will force the defense to move some safeties and LBs into rush defense and maybe open up the TE, RB or FB a little more for use in the red zone passing game.

I just worry that playing that much Waters puts us at a high risk of getting blown out by good teams.

against quality competition I want to start Sams.  If we have to throw every down to catch up I would rather do it after the opponent's D has been playing on it's heels to keep from Sams from getting the big play. 

Letting Waters wallow around out there while Big fizz teams run blitz the hell out of us on O and scorch our slow D then switching to Sams is a plan for failure.

[Panjandrum]

At the very least, I'd like to see Sams in the following situations:

1) Red Zone possessions
2) If we have a lead in the 3rd quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession
3) If we have a lead in the 4th quarter, a Sams series to hopefully eat clock with a run oriented possession

This way we can use the west coast passing attack when Waters has open field to get the ball to his receivers, and when we get into a short field, we switch over to Sams and use him Belldozer style so we can score more TDs since his threat to run the ball will force the defense to move some safeties and LBs into rush defense and maybe open up the TE, RB or FB a little more for use in the red zone passing game.

I just worry that playing that much Waters puts us at a high risk of getting blown out by good teams.

I'm not a proponent of the two QB system, and I think this team is better fit, personnel wise, for Sams.

What I posted was a best case scenario, IMO, if the coaches feel like Waters is their guy 80% of the time.

[Rams]

His passing ability is very overrated as it relates to how our fans talk about him. He had 2 very good passes that a good hs quarterback wouldn't complete on Saturday, both when he was on the move. He can complete basic passes and his throwing motion looks good, we haven't had a pocket passer that can do this since 1995 so everyone thinks this guy is Peyton Manning.

Maybe he just looks so good because we've been watching Collin/Queso/Gregory the last 4 years?

or maybe it's because he's completed 72% of his passes for 558 yards in 2 games with a 9.3 yds/attempt. 

You excluded three very important QB stats though. Also why, in the case of the offense that Waters is being asked to run,are people making a big deal about yds/attempt? Seemingly 95% of his attempts are within 5 yards of the LOS with receivers racking up YAC.

so he doesn't get credit for recievers' yac but he has to take the entire td/int stat line even though he would be 3/3 if not for 2 clear receiver derps?  jesus christ, MIR.

why is it so rough ridin' hard to admit that the evidence so far is that he's a pretty good pocket passing qb that has a good release, is accurate and can scramble effectively when the pocket breaks down...AND...Sams is still the better qb for our system?

Um I was just pointing out that your little stat pack told half of the story. I do think he's a good passer, nothing more. I think his biggest issue isn't his accuracy, his receivers,  his running back, or his o line; its his coaches insistence on him running someone else's offense.

why do I get the feeling that we've all been arguing for about 12 pages now and we all essentially agree on virtually everything?

[GoodForAnother]

why do I get the feeling that we've all been arguing for about 12 pages now and we all essentially agree on virtually everything?

yeah this thing is really dragging on.  I don't think anyone on here disagrees that Sams should at the very least get the ball more.