we had _____ and gave it away

[0.42]

If ADJC had indications that Frank was gone in January, then this hire is even more unforgivable. If you have months to put out feelers and you whiff so hard that all you can come up with is an Illinois retread then you're utterly incompetent at conducting a coaching search. If Currie was blindsided by Frank leaving, then that's not good either because it's been insinuated that Frank was gone no matter what and that means ADJC did a poor job of monitoring the situation.

And ultimately, this is what really matters:

I mean even if you want to give Currie a pass for having nothing to do with Frank, he still went out and hired a loser.  There are no excuses for that.

[captaincrap]

I think CC is confusing Currie and the JamSam receipt situation.  When CC hears us saying it's Currie's fault he thinks we mean the JamSam receipt situation that we blame Currie for, but really we are saying it's just Currie's fault in general.  That would explain why CC thinks that if Frank wanted to leave in January it must have nothing to do with Currie.

Decision was made by then. JamSam was unfortunate all the way around, but it had little impact on whether frank was coaching here this year or not

[chum1]

Frank bielemaed us.  That's my new theory.

[captaincrap]

If ADJC he had indications that Frank was gone in January, then this hire is even more unforgivable. If you have months to put out feelers and you whiff so hard that all you can come up with is an Illinois retread then you're utterly incompetent at conducting a coaching search. If Currie was blindsided by Frank leaving, then that's not good either because it's been insinuated that Frank was gone no matter what and that means he did a poor job of monitoring the situation.

And ultimately, this is what really matters:

I mean even if you want to give Currie a pass for having nothing to do with Frank, he still went out and hired a loser.  There are no excuses for that.

I don't think ADJC knew in January. He was telling his staff that at that time. Reached ADJC later on.

I've never defended who was hired. Always said I hope for the best and will support K-State.

[0.42]

If ADJC he had indications that Frank was gone in January, then this hire is even more unforgivable. If you have months to put out feelers and you whiff so hard that all you can come up with is an Illinois retread then you're utterly incompetent at conducting a coaching search. If Currie was blindsided by Frank leaving, then that's not good either because it's been insinuated that Frank was gone no matter what and that means he did a poor job of monitoring the situation.

And ultimately, this is what really matters:

I mean even if you want to give Currie a pass for having nothing to do with Frank, he still went out and hired a loser.  There are no excuses for that.

I don't think ADJC knew in January. He was telling his staff that at that time. Reached ADJC later on.

I've never defended who was hired. Always said I hope for the best and will support K-State.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info.

[michigancat]

What did Currie do to try to change Frank's (and the players') minds?

[8manpick]

That will be a better comparison. Obv it will matter if the team is winning, but actual butts in seats will be interesting to see in meat of conf play. Thing to remember is that tickets sold is roughly where it was last year for all remaining games. If this year goes poorly and next year's home noncon slate is this bad, I think you'll start to see a real noticeable drop in season tickets. That hasn't happened this year.

CC, What do you make of things like the student section being 2/3 empty for many of the games?  There were admittedly times over the last few years where it was not great, but it was never as bad as this year.  I'm fully aware that number of tickets scanned might be similar because lots of students come and scan their ticket, then immediately leave?  The butts in seats part seems much more important than this years ticket sales in the long term, and seems to give weight to the argument that more people are not as excited about this year as they expected when they bought season tickets.  Are there any walkup / single game tickets being bought?

[CNS]

What did Currie do to try to change Frank's (and the players') minds?

This is a good start to things that would need to be known to prove currie couldn't do anything one way or the other.  I mean, Currie's job is to handle A personalities under stressful situations.  So, given that the issue existed for so long, why didn't he manage those personalities. 

Also, if this comes down to Nino, Sprads, etc big timing the AD, then that is a huge failing on the AD.  Everyone not burning oscar down right now is following the mantra that KSU is bigger than frank martin.  If this thought process is to be believed, than follow that to the point that KSU is so much bigger than Will freaking Spradling that it isn't even something that should be mentioned.

Frank left and took everyone with him to what you state is the absolute first job that would open up an take him.  You don't take such a shitty opening/situation because of the perceived issues you may gain by running Will Spradling off because will can't handle the pressure.  You take such a situation because your current situation couldn't be worse.  Your boss has much more to do with that than a group of players.  Especially those rumored to be involved.  They weren't exactly Beaz, Walker, Jake, Denis, and Jamar.

What would Zenger do if the three KU starters that aren't Whithey or McLemore approached him and said that they had enough?  He would do his best to not laugh at them and then tell them he is sorry they feel that way.

I mean, this is insultingly crazy.

[Dr Rick Daris]

the whole thing is ridiculous though. depending on what side you believe, frank was either absolutely forced out and not allowed to stay at kstate -or- he knew back in january that he would take the first offer that he would get and was not willing to stay and half the team was leaving if he did, but again it was absolutely his choice to leave. because both sides/stories are absolutely out there.

then you have reports that oscar and keady were both in contact with kstate way before frank took the south carolina job. i mean i don't even know what to make of that. then currie in a dallas hotel room. him hiring an old buddy of his as a consultant. then the timeline of when oscar was actually hired and the odd rushing of him to manhattan (when he thought he'd be in new orleans for a few more days) to give the now famous cotton fitzpatrick speech.

[Dr Rick Daris]

also, here's the deal with the oscar weber hire... at some point in time, almost every kstate fan is going to want him fired. it is what it is. the difference will be at what point in time did they come to that decision. for some of us it took two seconds after learning he was the new coach. for others it might be at the end of this season. for even others, maybe three or five years from now. most of us will get there though and i don't think the people that decided after two seconds are any worse fans than those that chose to give him a chance before deciding or that the people that decided after one year are worse fans than those that took three or four to reach their conclusions.

[CNS]

the whole thing is ridiculous though. depending on what side you believe, frank was either absolutely forced out and not allowed to stay at kstate -or- he knew back in january that he would take the first offer that he would get and was not willing to stay and half the team was leaving if he did, but again it was absolutely his choice to leave. because both sides/stories are absolutely out there.

Currie is the common denominator in both of those "sides".  How could a situation be so bad that it was beyond action in January unless Currie was behind the push?  How could a guy that had turned down better jobs in the past openly state that he was on the first train out no matter how shitty unless all cards were stacked against him?

If it was franks decision, the decision was actually made for him way before that.

[ChiComCat]

lol @ team #burnitdown.  Currie already did

[CNS]

lol @ team #burnitdown.  Currie already did

Just trying to take his control burn, fan it a little, and see if we can get this thing to forest fire up.

[captaincrap]

depending on what side you believe, frank was either absolutely forced out and not allowed to stay at kstate -or- he knew back in january that he would take the first offer that he would get and was not willing to stay and half the team was leaving if he did, but again it was absolutely his choice to leave. because both sides/stories are absolutely out there.

Pretty much any player considered to be a good player for us was intending to transfer. It would have been a very significant story nationally, would make Frank look terrible, and would make it very difficult to recruit -- every coach in America would be pointing to a mass exodus at K-State as a huge red flag, and they would be right.

As for Currie, I'm sure he was in a tough spot -- he's hearing two sides of the story, and each side blames the other. Players and parents vs coaches. I'm sure he tried to get both sides to work together, to address their problems. But I'm also sure that at some point, it was clear that it was beyond salvaging.

I'm sure from Frank's point of view that would feel like he's being backed into a corner by outside forces and "forcing" him to look elsewhere when available. So someone from his camp might easily say with great conviction "he was forced out". But, you could also say that it was Frank's treatment of players that created the issue in the first place. So someone else might easily say with great conviction that Frank put himself in a position to not coach here.

All depends on who you talk to.

then you have reports that oscar and keady were both in contact with kstate way before frank took the south carolina job. i mean i don't even know what to make of that. then currie in a dallas hotel room. him hiring an old buddy of his as a consultant. then the timeline of when oscar was actually hired and the odd rushing of him to manhattan (when he thought he'd be in new orleans for a few more days) to give the now famous cotton fitzpatrick speech.

I know the players asked ADJC very pointedly that they be told first who the coach was. It was a promise he made them, and I think that affected the entire process because almost to a fault he went out of his way to do it very quietly. I think once he knew he had his guy, he wanted to get him in front of the team as quickly as possible before it leaked out.

[Teddy_Westside]

That will be a better comparison. Obv it will matter if the team is winning, but actual butts in seats will be interesting to see in meat of conf play. Thing to remember is that tickets sold is roughly where it was last year for all remaining games. If this year goes poorly and next year's home noncon slate is this bad, I think you'll start to see a real noticeable drop in season tickets. That hasn't happened this year.

CC, What do you make of things like the student section being 2/3 empty for many of the games?  There were admittedly times over the last few years where it was not great, but it was never as bad as this year.  I'm fully aware that number of tickets scanned might be similar because lots of students come and scan their ticket, then immediately leave?  The butts in seats part seems much more important than this years ticket sales in the long term, and seems to give weight to the argument that more people are not as excited about this year as they expected when they bought season tickets.  Are there any walkup / single game tickets being bought?

I've done this at atleast 3 games this year and am doing this at a much higher rate than I have the last 2 years.  And this isn't just me, I have friends that do the same and are doing it much more than the last 2 years.  We don't care to schedule around the games nearly as much to go watch oscar coach against a shitty team, but we still need the points for the KU game.

[EllToPay]

Morbid curiosity, if you had to choose just one of these two choices, which is the biggest reason why these things listed in this thread are gone: because Frank is gone, or because oscar is here?

You haven't heard much of people pining for Frank. It's more because of the loser, squeaky-voiced head coach that was hired, which makes us long for the days of last year.

We could have maintained with Underwood, just like we maintained with no name Frank Martin.

[TheHamburglar]

I still find it hard to believe Frank knew he was leaving in January because he knew all his players were transfering, but Currie did not know this.  The players then followed up on already deciding to quit for Frank by continuing to play hard for him the remainder of the Big12 season.  This is then followed by them getting a new "nice" coach and they immediatly start playing with 1/3 the tenacity they had before, even less than they played with for a coach they'd already given up on.

Sorry CC, I appreciate your insight, but this passes the smell test about as much as the story that a reciept was found by an anonymous person in a Dillons trash, then it somehow managed to find its way across town and just end up in the compliance office. 

[CNS]

depending on what side you believe, frank was either absolutely forced out and not allowed to stay at kstate -or- he knew back in january that he would take the first offer that he would get and was not willing to stay and half the team was leaving if he did, but again it was absolutely his choice to leave. because both sides/stories are absolutely out there.

Pretty much any player considered to be a good player for us was intending to transfer. It would have been a very significant story nationally, would make Frank look terrible, and would make it very difficult to recruit -- every coach in America would be pointing to a mass exodus at K-State as a huge red flag, and they would be right.

As for Currie, I'm sure he was in a tough spot -- he's hearing two sides of the story, and each side blames the other. Players and parents vs coaches. I'm sure he tried to get both sides to work together, to address their problems. But I'm also sure that at some point, it was clear that it was beyond salvaging.

I'm sure from Frank's point of view that would feel like he's being backed into a corner by outside forces and "forcing" him to look elsewhere when available. So someone from his camp might easily say with great conviction "he was forced out". But, you could also say that it was Frank's treatment of players that created the issue in the first place. So someone else might easily say with great conviction that Frank put himself in a position to not coach here.

All depends on who you talk to.

then you have reports that oscar and keady were both in contact with kstate way before frank took the south carolina job. i mean i don't even know what to make of that. then currie in a dallas hotel room. him hiring an old buddy of his as a consultant. then the timeline of when oscar was actually hired and the odd rushing of him to manhattan (when he thought he'd be in new orleans for a few more days) to give the now famous cotton fitzpatrick speech.

I know the players asked ADJC very pointedly that they be told first who the coach was. It was a promise he made them, and I think that affected the entire process because almost to a fault he went out of his way to do it very quietly. I think once he knew he had his guy, he wanted to get him in front of the team as quickly as possible before it leaked out.

Is this part common during coaching replacements?  I mean, it sounds like asking the players for permission to hire a guy is a bad idea, but I am not involved in this stuff.

I just can't get over the idea that not only did our players drive the bus on Frank going, but also on who was eventually hired?  Seems insane to me.

This just makes it sound like Currie is in over his head in his responsibilities.

[puniraptor]

I can get over frank. It seemed like he wanted to solicit other jobs every year he was here. I loved having him but knew one day he would be gone.

I can't forgive currie for hiring a loser.

CC, does the ath dept notice any feelings that kstate bball is being destroyed? And it's not even just a goEMAW thing. Does the fact that only 3 people called into the oscar Radio show raise any red flags in the AD?

[ben ji]

I still find it hard to believe Frank knew he was leaving in January because he knew all his players were transfering, but Currie did not know this. The players then followed up on already deciding to quit for Frank by continuing to play hard for him the remainder of the Big12 season.  This is then followed by them getting a new "nice" coach and they immediatly start playing with 1/3 the tenacity they had before, even less than they played with for a coach they'd already given up on.

Sorry CC, I appreciate your insight, but this passes the smell test about as much as the story that a reciept was found by an anonymous person in a Dillons trash, then it somehow managed to find its way across town and just end up in the compliance office.

Agree....If "All the good players" were planning on transferring you would think they wouldnt play hard and the whole thing would come crashing down in a splendid death spiral....Instead the team went out and won back to back road games against top 10 teams in Frankuary.

[CNS]

CC, does the ath dept notice any feelings that kstate bball is being destroyed? And it's not even just a goEMAW thing. Does the fact that only 3 people called into the oscar Radio show raise any red flags in the AD?

Would love to know this as well.

Also, on the players playing hard after Jan, well if it was true, they needed to give other teams reason to want their transferring asses.

[catzacker]

Can I get some clarification in the Will's Ark theory: did all the alleged players go directly to Currie with their transfer ransom?  Or was it a few who then indicated others would be comimg along too?  And when we say "parents" let's just say will's dad.  If we're calling Nino a projected starter under Frank then LOL.  Losing will, nino, and gip are not losses.  Kids want to leave until the reality of transferring hits them in the face harder than a profanity laced verbal barrage from frank.

Everyone wanted to leave so bad that after starting 4-5 in conference, they finished 6-3 with two top 15 rpi road wins.

[0.42]

You haven't heard much of people pining for Frank.

Yes we have. Especially on here. But the outcry against oscar is much more loud and unified. And as RD said, even the tuckiest of tucks will be on board by year 3 or 4 unless the current trend we're on drastically changes.

[ChiComCat]

I think he meant that they wanted to know who was hired before anybody else.  Not that they were necessarily involved in the hiring process.

[CNS]

upper level mediocrity

LOL at upper level.  Not if JO keeps doing what he has been doing and our shooting keeps sucking ass.  Just those two things will put us the bottom half of the conf.

As for the players wanting to know who was hired but not being part of the process, don't think that this statement by them to Currie wasn't taken as a veiled threat to continue the thought of transferring if the new guy wasn't to their liking.  I mean, that is exactly what they were asking for.  Tell me who the new guy is so I can know if we are still going or not.  That puts pressure on Currie to hire a guy that is approved of by players or lose your winning coach AND the team that pushed him out the door.