"Obamacare"

[Dr Rick Daris]

Socialist has become socialized and the insanity brought about by Daris has denigrated into semantical and stubborn "Nuh uh" arguments. So stupid.

From wiki:

In the United States, Medicare is a single-payer, national social insurance program administered by the US federal government since 1976

From merriam:

Insolvent adj.
1
a :  unable to pay debts as they fall due in the usual course of business
b :  having liabilities in excess of a reasonable market value of assets held
2
:  insufficient to pay all debts an insolvent estate
insolvent noun

I think we're done here.

Did FSD just win?

Yep

no. he didn't win because he is wrong. neither of those programs are socialized medicine because they aren't socialized medicine and it's as simple as that. much in the same way that water is not iced tea or a plane isn't also a train or my foot isn't my ear. I honest to god cannot even believe that I'm having to have this conversation.

socialized medicine would be where the government pays for AND PROVIDES the healthcare. that is not what happens in the United States except for within the VA system where providers are employed by the federal government as GS level employees. it also happens (to a large degree) within the army, navy etc where you have a mix of civilian (DOD) and active duty providers. medicare and Medicaid providers are not government employed. they are private practice providers that can choose to take or not take either or both. that by definition makes medicare and Medicaid not socialized healthcare.

this isn't semantics or fancy word play. this is basic. this is 2+2. this is a common thing that has to be agreed on before any actual discussion on anything else can happen.

[SdK]

I'll never get over the fact that I lived in my car for months while I waited to get into Valeo but others get to just show up to a hospital pregnant because they can't figure out a condom and get treated. How someone can want to be responsible and get turned away.

[Dr Rick Daris]

in regards to the solvent debate. literally just google "is medicare insolvent". I mean this is also 2+2 and the fact that someone is arguing otherwise is beyond stupid.

[kim carnes]

Chart time








We pay more or less, the proof is in the facts.

Look at that obesity rate. 

[kim carnes]

All those heart attacks start to take a toll on life expectancy

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

in regards to the solvent debate. literally just google "is medicare insolvent". I mean this is also 2+2 and the fact that someone is arguing otherwise is beyond stupid.

The adminstrator literally testifies before congress on an annual basis to report the estimated date when the program will no longer be able to meet its obligations. It's a certainty that it is insolvent, unless and until benefits are cut and/or taxes raised.

It's not illiquid, if that's what you mean.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Socialist has become socialized and the insanity brought about by Daris has denigrated into semantical and stubborn "Nuh uh" arguments. So stupid.

From wiki:

In the United States, Medicare is a single-payer, national social insurance program administered by the US federal government since 1976

From merriam:

Insolvent adj.
1
a :  unable to pay debts as they fall due in the usual course of business
b :  having liabilities in excess of a reasonable market value of assets held
2
:  insufficient to pay all debts an insolvent estate
insolvent noun

I think we're done here.

Did FSD just win?

Yep

no. he didn't win because he is wrong. neither of those programs are socialized medicine because they aren't socialized medicine and it's as simple as that. much in the same way that water is not iced tea or a plane isn't also a train or my foot isn't my ear. I honest to god cannot even believe that I'm having to have this conversation.

socialized medicine would be where the government pays for AND PROVIDES the healthcare. that is not what happens in the United States except for within the VA system where providers are employed by the federal government as GS level employees. it also happens (to a large degree) within the army, navy etc where you have a mix of civilian (DOD) and active duty providers. medicare and Medicaid providers are not government employed. they are private practice providers that can choose to take or not take either or both. that by definition makes medicare and Medicaid not socialized healthcare.

this isn't semantics or fancy word play. this is basic. this is 2+2. this is a common thing that has to be agreed on before any actual discussion on anything else can happen.

You lost like 25 posts ago. You're now just trying to rearrange and redefine your argumemt, and it's pathetic.

[Dr Rick Daris]

in regards to the solvent debate. literally just google "is medicare insolvent". I mean this is also 2+2 and the fact that someone is arguing otherwise is beyond stupid.

The adminstrator literally testifies before congress on an annual basis to report the estimated date when the program will no longer be able to meet its obligations. It's a certainty that it is insolvent, unless and until benefits are cut and/or taxes raised.

It's not illiquid, if that's what you mean.

the projected date for when it might become insolvent is over ten years away. it's not currently insolvent. you were/are wrong.

[SdK]

Take that post back Rick. You were doing well

[Dr Rick Daris]

there's nothing to take back. he said it's insolvent. it's not. he was wrong. again. sad.

[SdK]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Single Payer healthcare is such a bizarre hill for libtards to die on. Not quite as bizarre as the "obamacare is great and everyone on it loves it" hill the establishment is choosing to die on, but still bizarre.

Make your moral church going humanity arguments and stop. You will lose every time you argue its cheaper or better care. That's simply not true and the overwhelming majority of people are intelligent enough to recognize that. If we were starting from a place where everyone had crap obamacare, you might win. But something like 85% of non-olds people already have the best healthcare in the world nearly entirely paid for by their insurance company. Your not going to convince them that they'd be better off with the government in the driver's seat, they've all seen how that story ends.

[chum1]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

I think the semantics are pretty instructive. They show the underlying assumption at work, which is that everything that is public/not private is all exactly the same and is all bad. This is obviously absurd and not the basis of a legitimate argument.

[renocat]

The healthcare system prior to Obamacare took many years to develop.  It developed in the marketplace.  Then Obama took healthcare out of the marketplace, and into government.  People like government goodies.  This new version seems convoluted.  Trying to be marketplace and government; like breeding a Chihuahua to a St. Bernard or maybe even a dog to a chicken.  I have no confidence that Republicans are capable of creating anything better.

[SdK]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

I think the semantics are pretty instructive. They show the underlying assumption at work, which is that everything that is public/not private is all exactly the same and is all bad. This is obviously absurd and not the basis of a legitimate argument.

I feel like daris was arguing about something being one thing then later admitted it was on the horizon

[cfbandyman]

Facts keep being offered and FSD has nothing but words and rhetoric and no facts. We pay more for less. We have a shitty system that he insists on trying to make worse in the guise of freedom. Everyone with a country worth anything does it better than us, and we keep trying to drag it backwards.

[SdK]

For the record I am team universal. Money shouldn't decide our health.

[chum1]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

I think the semantics are pretty instructive. They show the underlying assumption at work, which is that everything that is public/not private is all exactly the same and is all bad. This is obviously absurd and not the basis of a legitimate argument.

I feel like daris was arguing about something being one thing then later admitted it was on the horizon

Was FSD merely arguing that the current iteration of Medicare will need to be tweaked sometime within the next 10 years? Or was he suggesting something more sinister like that the inherent nature of any non-privatized healthcare system is necessarily to be doomed to failure?

I'd guess the latter because it's way more absurd.

[SdK]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

I think the semantics are pretty instructive. They show the underlying assumption at work, which is that everything that is public/not private is all exactly the same and is all bad. This is obviously absurd and not the basis of a legitimate argument.

I feel like daris was arguing about something being one thing then later admitted it was on the horizon

Was FSD merely arguing that the current iteration of Medicare will need to be tweaked sometime within the next 10 years? Or was he suggesting something more sinister like that the inherent nature of any non-privatized healthcare system is necessarily to be doomed to failure?

I'd guess the latter because it's way more absurd.

I assumed there was a general assumption about fsd that we all operated under. I never knew anyone actually took him at his word.

[SdK]

Yes I know I said assume and assumption in the same sentence

[SdK]

Not proud of it

[Gooch]

Facts keep being offered and FSD has nothing but words and rhetoric and no facts. We pay more for less. We have a shitty system that he insists on trying to make worse in the guise of freedom. Everyone with a country worth anything does it better than us, and we keep trying to drag it backwards.

It's like talking with a flat earther. It's just not worth it and should actually be avoided at all costs.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Yes, it's my fault you people are stupid. I'm sure socialized intelligence can solve that.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

Semantics is where you go after you've lost, and that's where they are. MIR does it all the time after taking incredible positions.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Yes, it's my fault you people are stupid. I'm sure socialized intelligence can solve that.

Give me more medical hot takes. I'd love to hear them.