"Obamacare"

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It all seems like semantics now. Like a lie passed off as a truth because of the tense of a word.

I think the semantics are pretty instructive. They show the underlying assumption at work, which is that everything that is public/not private is all exactly the same and is all bad. This is obviously absurd and not the basis of a legitimate argument.

I feel like daris was arguing about something being one thing then later admitted it was on the horizon

Was FSD merely arguing that the current iteration of Medicare will need to be tweaked sometime within the next 10 years? Or was he suggesting something more sinister like that the inherent nature of any non-privatized healthcare system is necessarily to be doomed to failure?

I'd guess the latter because it's way more absurd.

You can try to reframe and redfine it any way you want, the problem is it's all pasted into the internet directly above.

[Kat Kid]

I'll never get over the fact that I lived in my car for months while I waited to get into Valeo but others get to just show up to a hospital pregnant because they can't figure out a condom and get treated. How someone can want to be responsible and get turned away.

Why are you angry at the other people desperately in need of care and not the people denying them sufficient care?

It isn't some crazy coincidence we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of any rich country in the world.

[cfbandyman]

Facts keep being offered and FSD has nothing but words and rhetoric and no facts. We pay more for less. We have a shitty system that he insists on trying to make worse in the guise of freedom. Everyone with a country worth anything does it better than us, and we keep trying to drag it backwards.

It's like talking with a flat earther. It's just not worth it and should actually be avoided at all costs.

[kim carnes]

I want everyone to have health insurance, just not single payer.

[Mrs. Gooch]

water is not iced tea

Well iced tea is like 99% water, so not sure if you are right on this one.

[Gooch]

water is not iced tea

Well iced tea is like 99% water, so not sure if you are right on this one.

If you asked for an Iced Tea and they brought you a water would you only be 1% pissed?*









* I already know the answer from IRL.

[SdK]

I'll never get over the fact that I lived in my car for months while I waited to get into Valeo but others get to just show up to a hospital pregnant because they can't figure out a condom and get treated. How someone can want to be responsible and get turned away.

Why are you angry at the other people desperately in need of care and not the people denying them sufficient care?

It isn't some crazy coincidence we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of any rich country in the world.

I wanted help and was taking steps to get that help. I wasn't someone who had a one night stand or someone who didn't wear a condom I was a sick person in need of help and I had to wait. Not everyone should be able to reproduce. There is a reason I am not a father. But yet my friends have no choice but to treat. People that want help don't get it and people that make shitty choices get treated daily. eff all of that. My friends fight and fight and dont have that option get to walk in and get treated. They usually end up killing themselves.

It pisses me off to hear stories about mom's and dad's who can afford to drive nice cars, paid for their whole body to be tattooed, and not be able to pay for their care. To hear about doctors writing things off because they know they won't be paid. To hear about people asking for a free car seat for their BMW

Yes kk, some people deserve more than others. Yes I feel those that are asking for help deserve help more than irresponsible people.

Yes I don't want to pay for another wife from Ft. Riley to have her baby daddy's kid. Knowing full well that soldier is on the hook for life

[Kat Kid]

I'll never get over the fact that I lived in my car for months while I waited to get into Valeo but others get to just show up to a hospital pregnant because they can't figure out a condom and get treated. How someone can want to be responsible and get turned away.

Why are you angry at the other people desperately in need of care and not the people denying them sufficient care?

It isn't some crazy coincidence we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of any rich country in the world.

I wanted help and was taking steps to get that help. I wasn't someone who had a one night stand or someone who didn't wear a condom I was a sick person in need of help and I had to wait. Not everyone should be able to reproduce. There is a reason I am not a father. But yet my friends have no choice but to treat. People that want help don't get it and people that make shitty choices get treated daily. eff all of that. My friends fight and fight and dont have that option get to walk in and get treated. They usually end up killing themselves.

It pisses me off to hear stories about mom's and dad's who can afford to drive nice cars, paid for their whole body to be tattooed, and not be able to pay for their care. To hear about doctors writing things off because they know they won't be paid. To hear about people asking for a free car seat for their BMW

Yes kk, some people deserve more than others. Yes I feel those that are asking for help deserve help more than irresponsible people.

Yes I don't want to pay for another wife from Ft. Riley to have her baby daddy's kid. Knowing full well that soldier is on the hook for life

I think your anger is really misplaced. driving a "nice" car is one of the worst ways to predict someone's net worth, but one of the best ways to project net worth. Used luxury cars aren't even that expensive a lot of the time.

ER care doesn't really help deliver healthy babies as that mother might not be taking pre-natals or getting wellness checks because that all costs money. You also can't get chemo at the ER. So while you are right, substance abuse (or mental health) isn't something we treat well (especially for the poor) that is not a reason to get mad at people that are having kids and are poor. The issues are not related. The predicament you were in was a result of a lot of choices that others made, but it wasn't people with a '02 Caddy with 180K miles and some nice rims that left you in your own car struggling.

[SdK]

My sources are ob nurses and doctors. I'm not talking out of my ass

[sys]

It isn't some crazy coincidence we have one of the highest infant mortality rates of any rich country in the world.

it's because of how big the country is.  and how diverse.  not to mention the fattness of us all.  we'll never solve this one, i'm afraid.

[kim carnes]

What is the infant mortality rate for rich people?

[star seed 7]

Just wondering, but why do 'servatives always mention that eurocare is all white people as a reason it won't work in the US?

[kim carnes]

How does infant mortality reporting work exactly?

[kim carnes]

Just wondering, but why do 'servatives always mention that eurocare is all white people as a reason it won't work in the US?

Hopefully no one mentions this.  White people are incredibly unhealthy, even more so in red states.

[star seed 7]

They usually disguise it as "homogeneous" and "less diverse"

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How does infant mortality reporting work exactly?

It varies from country to country. Which is why the "ZOMG the US has a really high infant mortality rate" argument in favor of socialized medicine is utter bullshit. So it's not surprising KK would trot this nonsense out.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nationalreview.com/article/276952/infant-mortality-deceptive-statistic-scott-w-atlas

The United States strictly adheres to the WHO definition of live birth (any infant “irrespective of the duration of the pregnancy, which . . . breathes or shows any other evidence of life . . . whether or not the umbilical cord has been cut or the placenta is attached”) and uses a strictly implemented linked birth and infant-death data set. On the contrary, many other nations, including highly developed countries in Western Europe, use far less strict definitions, all of which underreport the live births of more fragile infants who soon die. As a consequence, they falsely report more favorable neonatal- and infant-mortality rates.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

If you're hanging your hat on a Michael Moore anecdote and don't know you've already lost, you might be a libtard.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/physiciansfoundation/2016/04/12/infant-mortality-not-a-true-measure-of-a-successful-health-care-system/amp/

• Unlike in the U.S., low birth weight infants are not counted against the “live birth” statistics for many countries reporting low infant mortality rates.

• According to the way statistics are calculated in Canada, Germany and Austria, a premature baby weighing less than 500 grams is not considered a living child.

• In the U.S., very low birth weight babies are considered live births. The mortality rate of such infants – considered “unsalvageable” outside of the U.S. and therefore never alive – is extraordinarily high; up to 869 per 1,000 in the first month of life alone. This skews U.S. IM statistics.

• Since 2000, 42 of the world’s 52 surviving babies weighing less than 400 grams (0.9 lbs) were born in the U.S.

• Some of the countries reporting infant mortality rates lower than the U.S. classify babies as “stillborn” if they survive less than 24 hours whether or not such babies breathe, move, or have a beating heart at birth. But in the U.S., all infants who show signs of life at birth (take a breath, move voluntarily, have a heartbeat) are considered alive and are reflected in our IM statistics.

• If a child in Hong Kong or Japan is born alive but dies within the first 24 hours of birth, he or she is reported as a “miscarriage” and it does not affect the country’s reported IM rates.

• In Switzerland and other parts of Europe, a baby born less than 30 centimeters long is not counted as a live birth. Therefore, unlike in the U.S., such high-risk infants cannot affect Swiss IM rates.

It bears repeating that KK and other liberals fall for these bullshit comparisons all the time in favor of socialized medicine. So maybe approach their fantasyland ravings with skepticism.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

No serious person would actually argue the healthcare system in the U.S. is worse than another country.

If that perverted, heavily footnoted chart of healthcare per capita were based on socislist healthcare they'd be touting it as an achievement, and proof their system is the best. They are trained chimps.

[catastrophe]

Don't have any dictionary or Wikipedia definitions to share, but some of the most qualified people I have heard opine on this topic say that there is really nothing exceptional about US healthcare except our ability to keep the elderly living longer.

And I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but lol to anyone who thinks we actually have a true free market system right now.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Life expectancy is a poor metric. Michael Moore made a movie saying cuba has a better system, and that's monumental.

[kim carnes]

The US has the most advanced medical technology and many of the best doctors and hospitals in the world.  So knowing that, I take issue w/ the assertion that all those countries have better healthcare bc of extremely broad metrics.  Healthcare isn't that simple.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Let us not detract from the rich irony that is the libtard using infant mortality rates in support of anything, at all, ever.

Amaze

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Let us not detract from the rich irony that is the libtard using infant mortality rates in support of anything, at all, ever.

Amaze

Wow. Mind blown.

[gatoveintisiete]

Let us not detract from the rich irony that is the libtard using infant mortality rates in support of anything, at all, ever.

Amaze