Author Topic: "Obamacare"  (Read 150829 times)

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Offline steve dave

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"Obamacare"
« on: September 20, 2012, 06:48:59 PM »
what is the problem? looking for a pros and cons type list here. tia.


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Offline p1k3

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 06:52:11 PM »
Taxes. They should just get rid of the FDA and all regulations to allow for more competition. Legalize weed too. Then everyone could afford it!

/RadicalLibertarianRant

Offline 'taterblast

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »
con: i don't think anybody knows what is ALL included in it

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 06:59:31 PM »
Pro: They can't turn away kids born with conditions by calling it a "preexisting condition".

Offline 'taterblast

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 07:01:15 PM »
Pro: They can't turn away kids born with conditions by calling it a "preexisting condition".

you're talking about insurance companies, right?

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 07:11:06 PM »
Pro: They can't turn away kids born with conditions by calling it a "preexisting condition".

you're talking about insurance companies, right?

Right.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 07:53:43 PM »
Pro: Everyone will be able to get insurance.

Con: This is not going to do anything to lower the cost of healthcare.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 08:21:44 PM »
pros- more humans will have access to healthcare. it will make our country healthier as a whole (more emphasis on preventive med). kids will be able to stay on their parents insurance longer. can't be denied for pre existing conditions or dropped from your insurance. insurance companies are absolutely rough ridin' evil, so sticking it to them in small ways will be fun.

cons- if you make a crap ton of money and are in great health, you'll probably have to pay more and pay for things you don't want/need. the government is getting involved in things that could (should?) be choices left up to individuals.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 08:58:58 PM »
con: i don't think anybody knows what is ALL included in it

I had a chance to go to a lecture where a guy from a public policy think tank (I can't remember which one) discussed the Affordable Care Act.  Basically, he said that this was every idea, short of a single payor program, thrown together over the past 25 years or so.

He said it was good because something was bound to work.  He said it was bad because we really have no idea what actually did work because there were so many moving parts.

Offline Rams

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 09:06:28 PM »
They should just get rid of the FDA


this is a joke, right?
"Son. This is why we are wildcats. Hard work, pride, the heart of this country. And if that's not enough for you, you can just move to California with your punk friends."

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 09:11:09 PM »
con: i don't think anybody knows what is ALL included in it

I had a chance to go to a lecture where a guy from a public policy think tank (I can't remember which one) discussed the Affordable Care Act.  Basically, he said that this was every idea, short of a single payor program, thrown together over the past 25 years or so.

He said it was good because something was bound to work.  He said it was bad because we really have no idea what actually did work because there were so many moving parts.

the good news of this whole thing is that we are finally addressing the need to fix an incredibly broken and horrible system. people that want things to stay status quo are completely clueless.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 09:15:31 PM »
pro - all the pros listed (all very  :thumbs:)

con - it does nothing to address main issues of why healthcare costs so much to begin with: tort reform (for as greedy as insurance companies are, the personal injury lawyers suing doctors are just as greedy, requiring doctors to go back to the greedy insurance companies), the availability of technology that we can't afford on a national level but it is considered the norm in health care (very, very expensive and redundant equipment that needs to be paid for: similar machines in GC, DC, Hays, Colby, Goodland...Newton having a DaVinci machine for example), we are a population of fat slobs that creates much higher health care demand with much more expensive procedures to fix/monitor than other single payer systems that are the inspiration for this but it isn't accounted for anywhere in the system. 

I got a guy on the other line about some white walls

Offline wetwillie

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 09:25:02 PM »
Con: impacts food service industry with fines for not offering health insurance plan at $2000 per employee
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 09:26:15 PM »
Con: impacts food service industry with fines for not offering health insurance plan at $2000 per employee

Does not affect local businesses! :emawkid:

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 09:29:15 PM »
Con: impacts food service industry with fines for not offering health insurance plan at $2000 per employee

only those that have more than 50 employees.

also, good news... more workers will have health insurance. also, many food industry workers are under 26 and they would still be able to be on their parents insurance. also, medicaid will be extended to many more people and the federal government will reimburse states for the expense. this means that food industry employees that are employed by businesses with over fifty employees and are over 26 will be eligible for medicaid unless they make a lot of money which in that case, yay! good for them. they can pay for their own insurance.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 09:29:56 PM »

Con: impacts food service industry with fines for not offering health insurance plan at $2000 per employee

Does not affect local businesses! :emawkid:

Please explain, That certainly changes things

I forget the number and don't want to look it up, but the business has to have at least 50 employees for this to be in effect. It may be more, but 50 sounds right. It is certainly not less.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 09:30:25 PM »
Also, sorry I luked Daris.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 09:38:10 PM »
Pro: Everyone will be able to get insurance.

Con: This is not going to do anything to lower the cost of healthcare.

Well...

A lot of people are focusing on two things: The mandate and the pre-existing conditions.  The reason we're able to fund the pre-existing conditions is because we're forcing all of these healthy people to buy insurance and allowing a bunch of unemployed art history majors the ability to mooch off of their parent's insurance into their mid-twenties.  The hope is that by greatly expanding the pool, we can lower the individual cost of healthcare for those who want to buy insurance.  Will it work?  Eh, I don't know.  But that's the general thought.

From an overall cost perspective, there are a TON of things going on right now that the ACA is trying to address.  The EHR stimulus, the healthcare exchanges, reduced payments to physicians, a change from a fee-for-service to an outcomes based reimbursement model, ACO's, a tightening of of reimbursement standards, etc.  Trying to keep up with regulatory standards right now is really, really hard.  Financially successful hospitals are gobbling up less successful ones and creating tighter and more efficient care delivery networks.

I guess if I were to look at it from my perspective, I'd boil the ACA down into three things:

1) Trying to insure as much of the population as possible
2) Attempting to decrease the personal cost of healthcare by addressing #1 and by utilizing an exchange system similar to what Switzerland has
3) Trying to decrease the cost of healthcare in general by making it more efficient and essentially pouring gasoline on the fire of consolidation that was already happening in the industry

Anyway, that's my two cents.  I left a lot out, but that's because I save my really long winded stuff for realignment.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 09:40:22 PM »
con: i don't think anybody knows what is ALL included in it

I had a chance to go to a lecture where a guy from a public policy think tank (I can't remember which one) discussed the Affordable Care Act.  Basically, he said that this was every idea, short of a single payor program, thrown together over the past 25 years or so.

He said it was good because something was bound to work.  He said it was bad because we really have no idea what actually did work because there were so many moving parts.

the good news of this whole thing is that we are finally addressing the need to fix an incredibly broken and horrible system. people that want things to stay status quo are completely clueless.

It's already helping.  A lot of the change people haven't seen yet and probably won't for a few years.

There's a lot of mechanical stuff going on in the industry that's just going to take time to sort out.  Healthcare is the most convoluted and inefficient industry that you can possibly imagine.

Well, outside of government, of course.

Offline puniraptor

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"Obamacare"
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 09:40:42 PM »
Con: I have to listen to my redneck coworkers rant about how awful it is on the daily.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 09:43:15 PM »
Con: I have to listen to my redneck coworkers rant about how awful it is on the daily.

Oh man. I have been neglecting just how big of con this is. It's nearly insufferable.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 09:44:36 PM »
Con: I have to listen to my redneck coworkers rant about how awful it is on the daily.

When people talk about how awful it is, I ask about specifics.  They then talk about socialism, and I ask them if they supply proof of insurance when they go get their tags renewed.

They grumble, I smirk, and then I tell them to drop the pizza and get the eff off of my porch.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 09:46:18 PM »
Also, is there anyway to hide this thread from Trim before he sees it? Last time we talked about this was the angriest I have seen Trim without him choking someone out. This time he may not be able to restrain himself.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM »
another thing is that super big retailers like wal-mart, which is the absolute worst, will no longer be able to shove employees onto medicaid, etc. they'll have to come up with something. so i guess a con could be that you'll be paying 1% more for your walmart bills or whatever if you shop there to make up for the added cost that they are about to incur.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2012, 09:50:19 PM »
Please, Daris. No one here shops at Wal-Mart. :kstategrad: