Lowery Interview on 1350

[Trim]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

[chum1]

you know who would like some piss recipes?  bear grylls.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night. 

[Trim]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night. 

Bell.  Money.  'clams.  Next?

[pissclams]

-official goEMAW posting key-

weber sucks.

weber rough ridin' sucks.

lowery rough ridin' worse than weber = sucks really bad.

i can't blame frank for leaving, i wouldn't want to work with weber either. 

weber = joke

frank = pariah

currie = needs to be fired

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night. 

Bell.  Money.  'clams.  Next?

Cheat better, pay more, less weird, less paranoid, better PR, back off Frank being Frank at times.   Pretty much leaves the Currie issue, less Frank being Frank gives Currie less ammo to make his case and get support from Schulz.   Frank still our coach. 

The end.

[Skipper44]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night. 

Bell.  Money.  'clams.  Next?

[michigancat]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night.

Beasley and Bell. and if a dried up MOKAN pipeline caused by Frank being a dickhead cost us Cauley, it's interesting that we're just hearing about it now.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night.

Beasley and Bell. and if a dried up MOKAN pipeline caused by Frank being a dickhead cost us Cauley, it's interesting that we're just hearing about it now.

It sure is interesting.

[Belvis Noland]

Beasley and Bell. and if a dried up MOKAN pipeline caused by Frank being a dickhead cost us Cauley, it's interesting that we're just hearing about it now.

I first heard about it when Cauley declared for Kentucky.  But, to my credit, I'm ITK.   

[sonofdaxjones]

Of course if Frank did light up Suther over Cauley and thus that house got burned down (there I go again) is that really that smart?   It was Kentucky, not Oklahoma State, not Texas Tech . . . Kentucky. 

[sys]

I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.

i'm glad you didn't high five him, trim.  he is a treacherous coward.

[Belvis Noland]

Btw, we're all in agreement that FBF (frank being frank) cost us Semi.  the only real debate is whether EMAWs are supposed to care that FBF scared off recruits. 

At the time, we weren't pleased, as I recall.  Now, today, that we've shifted all hatred to Currie/Weber and Frank has attained immortal status at KSU, it seems like FBF was just fine and all of the players/recruits were just pussies.   

Again, I'm confused. 

[michigancat]

Color me confused.  4/5 NCAAs is perfectly acceptable by any standards but 3/5 NCAAs is unequivocally, absolutely fireable.  Hell, even Frank, the gold standard, the best, platinum club coach we've ever had was a 4/5 NCAA coach. 

Who said Frank was the gold standard? I said 4 out of 5 was acceptable indefinitely, and I'd consider less. Under your example, the NCAA tourney was missed 2 out of 3 years. If it was the first and the last season that were missed, I might not consider firing the guy.

I think we'll be above .550 - .600 conseratively.  Assuming an 18 game schedule, and having no idea who our coaching staff or recruiting classes will be...

'12 - 13-5 NCAA
'13 - 8-10 NIT
'14 - 9-9 NCAA/NIT
'15 - 10-8 NCAA
'16 - 10-8 NCAA

50 - 40 conference. 

Obviously, these numbers could change pretty dramatically.  If Angel transfers, I don't see us going 13-5 in year 1.  If we line up Jerrance Howard and lock up some high caliber talent, maybe we don't take a big step back in year 2.

I would be fine with that timeline. I'm not sure why you think a conservative guess of Weber's conference record here would be better than it was at Illinois, but whatever.

the question is, do you hold Weber accountable for losing Angel and Howard, or does that give him lower expectations from Day 1?

[michigancat]

Btw, we're all in agreement that FBF (frank being frank) cost us Semi.  the only real debate is whether EMAWs are supposed to care that FBF scared off recruits. 

At the time, we weren't pleased, as I recall.  Now, today, that we've shifted all hatred to Currie/Weber and Frank has attained immortal status at KSU, it seems like FBF was just fine and all of the players/recruits were just pussies.   

Again, I'm confused. 

You're confused easily.

[pissclams]

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

OK, so we can stop with "if posts on gpc are to be believed".  It's not posts on gpc or fuktard's post a page or 2 back that is to be believed.  It's if Doc's parents and coaches are to be believed.  And maybe they are.  I personally don't know where to draw the line between no high-fives and burning houses down when it comes to Doc.  But it's not 100 people with their own independent "Frank's a psycho" story.

Why did DC Assault dry up?  Dalonte?  Manhattan, KS?  Probably a good starting place, but it went from a pretty strong pipeline to nothing almost over night. 

Bell.  Money.  'clams.  Next?

i had the chance to repair the relationship, but choose not to.

[Belvis Noland]

the question is, do you hold Weber accountable for losing Angel and Howard, or does that give him lower expectations from Day 1?

Do you hold Weber accountable for keeping Deron Williams and Dee Brown at Illinois after Self left? 

My answer would be yes, I hold Weber accountable for not convincing Angel to stay.  Naturally, logically, and rationally, I also give him credit for convincing Dee Brown and Deron Williams to stay at Illinois.  I give him even more credit for convincing them to stay for two (2) seasons, resulting in the championship run. 

Of course, it's much more convenient to argue that Weber had nothing to do with Williams/Brown staying but Weber has everything to do with Angel leaving.   

[kso_FAN]

Color me confused.  4/5 NCAAs is perfectly acceptable by any standards but 3/5 NCAAs is unequivocally, absolutely fireable.  Hell, even Frank, the gold standard, the best, platinum club coach we've ever had was a 4/5 NCAA coach. 

Who said Frank was the gold standard? I said 4 out of 5 was acceptable indefinitely, and I'd consider less. Under your example, the NCAA tourney was missed 2 out of 3 years. If it was the first and the last season that were missed, I might not consider firing the guy.

This is a good post.

I don't plan to lower/change expectations, but I'm glad you're reasonable enough to believe that 3/5 NCAAs may or may not be fireable. The major thing to look at is direction of the program and I think at K-State a year or two of rebuilding should be allowable. But those years should be near .500 in the league and on the bubble for most of the year. The biggest concern with Weber is he has shown the ability to have terrible seasons in league with a .278 year and a .333 year. Those are huge concerns and will call for immediate heat. IMO you might allow one more year, but if the next season doesn't result in an NCAA birth, ties must be cut. And if a coach has 2 of those during his tenure, you move on.

Just looking at Weber's tenure at Illinois, I wouldn't have fired him after his 5th season, but partially because his first 4 years gave him some leverage. And after first terrible season, he finished tied for 2nd in the Big 10, so he redeemed himself. Even years 7 and 8 would've been tough to fire him, but clearly I understand why he was fired after last year, and if he repeats that at K-State he should be fired again.

[Belvis Noland]

You're confused easily.

I know right? 

"Frank's profile was consistent NCAAs, 20+ wins and 3rd-5th in Conference.  A "Frankesque" season."  - Belvis.   

Michigantard interpretation of above post:  "'20 wins', '5th place' and 'postseason.'"   

 

[michigancat]

the question is, do you hold Weber accountable for losing Angel and Howard, or does that give him lower expectations from Day 1?

Do you hold Weber accountable for keeping Deron Williams and Dee Brown at Illinois after Self left? 

My answer would be yes, I hold Weber accountable for not convincing Angel to stay.  Naturally, logically, and rationally, I also give him credit for convincing Dee Brown and Deron Williams to stay at Illinois.  I give him even more credit for convincing them to stay for two (2) seasons, resulting in the championship run. 

Of course, it's much more convenient to argue that Weber had nothing to do with Williams/Brown staying but Weber has everything to do with Angel leaving.   

Let's be clear: oscar definitely deserves credit for retaining Head, Brown, and Williams, as well as the great tournament run. I just don't think those things are relevant items to use when predicting his long-term success at KSU.

I also don't think losing or keeping Angel will have anything to do with his long-term success at KSU - I only think losing Angel will give Weber some nice low expectations for the next 3 years or so.

[8manpick]

2 NITs over the course of this contract - fired
1 CBI / missed postseason - fired

Look, I'm not really excited about Weber, but that has nothing to do with what our expectations should be.  Expectations shouldn't change based on a new coach, the coach should change if he doesn't meet expectations.  I would be very disappointed if we made 2 NITs in the next 5 years, especially because it would likely be 2 in the last 4 or 2 in the last 3 which is not good, and not acceptable.

[Belvis Noland]

Let's be clear: oscar definitely deserves credit for retaining Head, Brown, and Williams, as well as the great tournament run. I just don't think those things are relevant items to use when predicting his long-term success at KSU.

I also don't think losing or keeping Angel will have anything to do with his long-term success at KSU - I only think losing Angel will give Weber some nice low expectations for the next 3 years or so.

Let's be clear, your question was "do you hold Weber accountable for losing Angel and Howard, or does that give him lower expectations from Day 1?"

I answered your question. 

[Belvis Noland]

I also don't think losing or keeping Angel will have anything to do with his long-term success at KSU - I only think losing Angel will give Weber some nice low expectations for the next 3 years or so.

Angel has a lot to do with his long-term success at KSU, IMO.  If he loses Angel, we have no PG and '12-'13 could be a disaster.  '13'-'14 could be a disaster b/c we lose the core nucleus of our team. 

Absent some high profile infusion of talent in the program, Weber could be gone after 2 disaster years.  Unfortunately, it seems like most on this board are hoping desperately for said disaster so that they can say "I told you so." 

[420seriouscat69]

Fire up combo-fanning season. This crap is getting repetitve and old. #BurnItDown

[pissclams]

So if the posts on Wabash are to true, it sounds like Frank had burned multiple AAU bridges and had pissed up the KC AAU punch bowl so badly that K-State was pretty much locked out completely.

Yes, dax, I'm aware that Doc's disgruntled people have told many EMAWs that Frank sucks and that all of those EMAWs are spreading that info in every forum available.

Yeah, I am sure TeamDoc consists of legions of people.   

5 or less who whine to every EMAW they can find and will happy to feeling ITK.

Oh yeah, I am sure they were all out to get Frank.   Could never actually see Frank burning any bridges now that I think about it.   

How many of the ITK sources on this issue have a last name starting with something other than "S"?

Doesn't matter Trim#TeamFrank, you don't go burn down the house (Did I just say that) of a potential huge client right down the road from your headquarters.   Particularly when that client networks with a bunch of other potential clients.   Nothing says great PR when it becomes clear that a guy has gone overboard into abusive dickhole land. 

The problem wth the Frankites is that they give a little lip service to the warts and then try to pass that off as being objective.   The warts were gigantic even if you toss out Currie.   

Hey guys, I love this place so much that I told two my recruits NOT to sign their LOI . . . love ya!

Dax, my point is that it doesn't matter how much his story gets posted by different people in different places.  It's still one story.  You see what I mean? 

Obviously, a story told by people in KC to EMAW fans are going to get regurgitated on EMAW message boards often.

I'm aware that Frank's a weirdo, but it's not due to Doc's coaches/parents crying about it to everyone with a computer.

I don't disagree.   

But we know that Jo was on the verge of quitting, Rodney has almost left . . . they don't talk to people?   You can't have 2,3,4 guys riding off into the sunset every year before it becomes too much to overcome on the recruiting trail.   

Plus, IMO Frank deserved the bad PR, no kid has to put up with the BS that Frank was saying to Doc and I am about as old school as it gets.   You don't get personal with a kid who is beat to hell and still playing his ass off for you out on the floor.    Particularly when that kid is linked back to an AAU program that seems to have had a decent run of high major prospects coming through it of late.   If Frank wanted somebody better than Doc than he should have gone out and recruited them.

sorry but frank didn't do anything wrong and weber sucks.  learn to post here.

Stick to recipes Piss.

i was kidding, you dumbass.