phog.net realignment gems

[OregonSmock]

KU has a better basketball program

KU doesn't just have a better basketball program... they have a top five basketball program that draws national interest.  KU also owns a majority of a relatively large TV market in Kansas City.  KU is solid academically and is a member of the AAU.  We have a larger alumni base than K-State and a larger athletic budget.  I mean these are simply facts that you can't argue against.  Outside of programs like Texas and Notre Dame, KU is right up there when it comes to bringing additional revenue to another conference.  

Would I like for KU to remain in the same conference with K-State and Mizzou?  Absolutely.  Do I think the Pac 12 and ACC would have room for both KU and K-State?  No, I don't, and if it comes down to KU joining the ACC or Pac 12 instead of joining the Big East with K-State, I'd prefer to go solo.  K-State fans would feel the exact same way if the roles were reversed.  Don't kid yourselves.

Facts?  Oh, my...

How can you even argue against any of that?  KU was ranked 11th in the country in athletic revenue just a few years ago.  We are right outside of the top 20 in total athletic revenue since 2005.  KU has a huge TV contract with ESPN and owns a majority of the Kansas City television market.  What other program in the dying Big 12 would add more additional revenue to another conference outside of Texas and Oklahoma?  

[Emo EMAW]

KU has a better basketball program

KU doesn't just have a better basketball program... they have a top five basketball program that draws national interest.  KU also owns a majority of a relatively large TV market in Kansas City.  KU is solid academically and is a member of the AAU.  We have a larger alumni base than K-State and a larger athletic budget.  I mean these are simply facts that you can't argue against.  Outside of programs like Texas and Notre Dame, KU is right up there when it comes to bringing additional revenue to another conference.  

Would I like for KU to remain in the same conference with K-State and Mizzou?  Absolutely.  Do I think the Pac 12 and ACC would have room for both KU and K-State?  No, I don't, and if it comes down to KU joining the ACC or Pac 12 instead of joining the Big East with K-State, I'd prefer to go solo.  K-State fans would feel the exact same way if the roles were reversed.  Don't kid yourselves.

Facts?  Oh, my...

How can you even argue against any of that?  KU was ranked 11th in the country in athletic revenue just a few years ago.  We are right outside of the top 20 in total athletic revenue since 2005.  KU has a huge TV contract with ESPN and owns a majority of the Kansas City television market.  What other program in the dying Big 12 would add more additional revenue to another conference outside of Texas and Oklahoma?  

Ben, could post history of revenue for last 5 years plz?

[Trim]

owns a majority of the Kansas City television market.

[OregonSmock]

Net Profits by Athletic Department, 2009-2010

Texas: $29,603,034
Kansas: $11,687,378
Kansas State: $11,099,094
Oklahoma: $10,121,904
Oklahoma State: $5,402,887
Nebraska: $5,029,604
Texas Tech: $4,898,394
Texas A & M: $2,675,650
Missouri: $2,505,575
Colorado: $930,604
Iowa State: $215,540
Baylor: $0


Here are the top revenue generating programs from 2005-06 through 2009-2010:


Institution Name    Grand Total Revenue    Grand Total Expenses    Profit

Texas    $605,108,282    $500,783,830    $104,324,452
Ohio State    $575,074,569    $516,982,310    $58,092,259
Florida    $521,026,679    $475,216,193    $45,810,486
Michigan    $475,418,749    $376,093,582    $99,325,167
Alabama    $472,696,121    $374,990,279    $97,705,842
Tennessee    $447,299,149    $435,339,648    $11,959,501
Penn State    $441,004,474    $378,106,020    $62,898,454
Wisconsin    $438,714,947    $413,421,089    $25,293,858
Louisiana State    $435,601,796    $407,465,214    $28,136,582
Auburn    $418,904,026    $376,841,279    $42,062,747
Notre Dame    $417,065,007    $313,623,490    $103,441,517
Georgia    $408,680,608    $343,635,239    $65,045,369
Iowa    $396,206,849    $344,731,540    $51,475,309
Oklahoma    $391,200,150    $380,479,633    $10,720,517
USC    $374,128,429    $374,128,429    $0
Michigan State    $373,348,695    $321,539,458    $51,809,237
Virginia    $371,891,285    $357,475,801    $14,415,484
Texas A&M    $359,862,009    $342,419,076    $17,442,933
Stanford    $359,261,704    $356,038,374    $3,223,330
Nebraska    $359,089,969    $332,714,925    $26,375,044
Kansas    $356,685,528    $297,351,141    $59,334,387
Kentucky    $340,638,906    $327,047,572    $13,591,334
South Carolina    $336,434,820    $328,674,789    $7,760,031
Minnesota    $329,448,928    $322,970,257    $6,478,671
Oklahoma State    $326,238,178    $273,959,017    $52,279,161
California    $319,553,483    $319,502,736    $50,747
Arkansas    $317,472,840    $304,516,585    $12,956,255
North Carolina    $311,318,829    $310,322,260    $996,569
UCLA    $307,518,115    $307,501,197    $16,918
Duke    $305,442,709    $304,180,138    $1,262,571
Boston College    $300,446,948    $295,093,893    $5,353,055
Washington    $297,429,491    $279,371,129    $18,058,362
Purdue    $289,997,727    $277,327,048    $12,670,679
Oregon    $287,925,483    $276,292,935    $11,632,548
Virginia Tech    $281,014,390    $252,140,462    $28,873,928
Clemson    $278,773,748    $265,776,203    $12,997,545
Florida State    $278,057,903    $271,387,906    $6,669,997
Louisville    $276,626,938    $263,116,665    $13,510,273
Connecticut    $274,438,065    $274,159,199    $278,866
Illinois    $272,272,142    $244,345,811    $27,926,331
West Virginia    $268,839,229    $240,910,022    $27,929,207
Indiana    $268,489,651    $247,066,702    $21,422,949
Arizona State    $265,675,468    $263,293,925    $2,381,543
Missouri    $256,386,080    $251,401,330    $4,984,750
Miami (FL)    $255,735,910    $242,972,602    $12,763,308
Rutgers    $245,105,184    $244,719,877    $385,307
Texas Tech    $244,451,812    $228,964,729    $15,487,083
Colorado    $241,239,561    $230,601,450    $10,638,111
Arizona    $240,762,291    $230,260,937    $10,501,354
Kansas State    $239,718,709    $202,264,641    $37,454,068
Syracuse    $237,755,312    $231,115,007    $6,640,305
Georgia Tech    $236,123,569    $234,657,630    $1,465,939
Oregon State    $232,407,604    $229,464,206    $2,943,398
Baylor    $223,543,720    $223,543,720    $0
North Carolina State    $223,022,563    $218,020,914    $5,001,649
Vanderbilt    $220,415,601    $214,755,898    $5,659,703
TCU    $218,609,628    $218,609,628    $0
Northwestern    $218,374,098    $218,374,098    $0
Pittsburgh    $205,426,419    $205,426,419    $0
Iowa State    $200,744,619    $200,483,939    $260,680
Wake Forest    $198,222,588    $195,112,422    $3,110,166
Mississippi    $182,994,902    $182,994,902    $0
Washington State    $178,899,390    $167,359,496    $11,539,894
BYU    $176,271,821    $165,932,047    $10,339,774
UNLV    $176,004,389    $174,248,158    $1,756,231
Cincinnati    $169,056,019    $169,056,019    $0
Central Florida    $168,895,820    $149,374,346    $19,521,474
South Florida    $165,778,650    $158,959,092    $6,819,558
SMU    $164,819,233    $164,819,233    $0
San Diego State    $160,482,385    $158,512,757    $1,969,628
Memphis    $160,343,086    $160,343,086    $0
Mississippi State    $156,784,564    $154,797,211    $1,987,353
Houston    $146,184,825    $146,184,825    $0
Hawaii    $144,883,108    $140,475,050    $4,408,058
New Mexico    $142,260,446    $142,260,446    $0
Utah    $141,632,138    $140,555,716    $1,076,422
Rice    $139,262,236    $139,262,225    $11
East Carolina    $137,431,677    $131,846,315    $5,585,362
Temple    $134,796,733    $134,796,733    $0
Fresno State    $131,963,307    $126,742,047    $5,221,260
Tulsa    $121,666,475    $121,666,475    $0
Wyoming    $117,552,012    $117,552,012    $0
Miami (OH)    $116,694,393    $116,302,849    $391,544
UTEP    $110,917,044    $110,478,057    $438,987
UAB    $109,558,625    $107,644,360    $1,914,265
Boise State    $109,026,773    $108,213,191    $813,582
Central Michigan    $106,675,697    $106,172,625    $503,072
New Mexico State    $106,615,411    $106,021,740    $593,671
Colorado State    $104,878,858    $101,913,551    $2,965,307
Nevada    $103,880,156    $103,258,379    $621,777
Buffalo    $103,468,402    $103,393,256    $75,146
Marshall    $103,342,431    $103,028,965    $313,466
Ohio    $101,622,884    $100,292,169    $1,330,715
Tulane    $98,896,105    $98,896,105    $0
Western Michigan    $98,867,968    $97,908,010    $959,958
Western Kentucky    $97,493,804    $97,493,804    $0
Florida International    $97,437,507    $94,837,277    $2,600,230
Eastern Michigan    $97,352,052    $96,207,540    $1,144,512
Akron    $92,964,535    $92,076,375    $888,160
Bowling Green    $92,589,069    $83,727,362    $8,861,707
Toledo    $91,120,410    $91,120,410    $0
San Jose State    $90,973,290    $88,601,270    $2,372,020
Kent State    $89,627,091    $88,258,535    $1,368,556
Northern Illinois    $89,406,214    $86,390,693    $3,015,521
Southern Miss    $88,112,557    $86,055,428    $2,057,129
Middle Tennessee State    $86,174,212    $86,174,212    $0
Ball State    $85,663,374    $85,655,065    $8,309
North Texas    $80,917,213    $78,780,725    $2,136,488
Utah State    $73,544,824    $72,363,321    $1,181,503
Florida Atlantic    $72,676,329    $70,083,968    $2,592,361
Troy    $67,845,069    $67,845,069    $0
Idaho    $66,638,186    $65,901,165    $737,021
Louisiana Tech    $63,420,129    $63,285,520    $134,609
Louisiana-Lafayette    $53,756,169    $53,211,381    $544,788
Arkansas State    $52,805,477    $52,805,477    $0
Louisiana-Monroe    $40,303,634    $38,431,807    $1,871,827

[pike]

Ben's constant self-validation reminds of of Stuart Smalley.  You just know Ben is sitting in front of a mirror right now.  "KU is good enough, KU is smart enough, and doggone it, people like KU!"

/thread

[sonofdaxjones]

If other schools reported capital giving on their books the same way ku does, than ku wouldn't have been 11th in the country in total revnues a few years ago.

Owning a majority of the kc markets assumes that a huge section of sports fan just turn off the tv when K-State is on, and we all know that's Bull$hit.

[pissclams]

So let me get this straight... everyone on this board honestly believes that KU and K-State are equal in this whole realignment process?  You don't think KU has any advantages over K-State, or that the ACC and Pac 12 wouldn't take KU without K-State?  Interesting. 

i'm not sure anyone said that but you.

[Stevesie60]

If other schools reported capital giving on their books the same way ku does, than ku wouldn't have been 11th in the country in total revnues a few years ago.

You've said this 1000 times, but Ben manages to look past it. Would love to know how he does it.

[sonofdaxjones]

Baylor    $223,543,720    $223,543,720    $0

Yet Baylor has built 10's of millions of dollars in new facilities in the last decade or so using private money, but all of that money is not counted as revenue for the athletic department.

[OregonSmock]

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/list-of-15-big-ten-candidates-is-who-may-come-with-texas-or-notre-dame-not-instead-of-them/

The fact that the Big Ten has a list of 15 schools that it’s looking at is an indication that the conference is looking at numerous schools that are significantly outside of its conference geographic footprint.  To me, this exercise looks a lot more like an evaluation of “Who do we add on top of Texas and/or Notre Dame if we’re willing to go to 14 schools?”  From a realistic standpoint, schools from the SEC aren’t going to ever move while the 2 schools that the Big Ten would want from the Pac-10 (USC and UCLA) are no-brainers in the same category as Texas and Notre Dame where there’s no point in even examining them because they’re in if they want to join.  Here is my semi-educated guess as to who is on that list of 15 schools as well as the key questions that the Big Ten ought to be asking about them:

1.  Syracuse – Does it really bring in the NYC market?  Can it bring in the NYC market when it’s combined with Penn State?  If yes, does Syracuse or Rutgers do this better?

2.  Rutgers – See comment for Syracuse.

3.  UCONN – Can it make inroads into both the NYC and Boston markets?  It’s not an AAU member but its overall rankings are pretty solid, so is that good enough academically?  Is the youth of the football program at the Division 1-A level a complete non-starter?

4.  Pitt – Great for both academics and athletics, but can they really add much in terms of TV viewers with Penn State already delivering the Pittsburgh market, especially when there are other candidates that are similar but can bring in new markets?

5.  Maryland – Is it more trustworthy in its ability to deliver the DC and Baltimore markets than the other East Coast candidates with respect to their own markets?  What does a Maryland/Penn State combo do for the conference in terms of delivering the Mid-Atlantic region?  Is there enough commitment to the football program in terms of long-term competitiveness?

6.  Virginia – An unequivocal academic superstar, but are its athletic programs good enough to add more value?  Can it really deliver the DC market any better than Maryland?

7.  Virginia Tech – Rising in terms of academics but not an AAU member, so is that satisfactory?  Can it really deliver the DC market any better than Maryland or UVA?

8.  Boston College - Can it really deliver the Boston market?  Is the fan base large enough to justify inclusion?  Very strong undergrad program but isn’t an AAU member, so will it fit academically?

9.  Miami – Can it deliver the Florida market by itself?  It’s not an AAU member and doesn’t have great graduate programs, but it’s a top 50 undergrad school.  Is that enough in terms of academics?  Is the poor attendance and traveling fan base for the football program trumped by its extremely strong national TV drawing power?

10.  Missouri - Has the ability to draw in the St. Louis and Kansas City markets, but is that enough considering that there are options in more populous regions like the Northeast, Florida and Texas?  Many assume that it’s an academic fit as an AAU member, but it’s actually lower in the US News rankings than Nebraska, so does it really meet the Big Ten’s academic requirements?

11.  Nebraska – Is the national drawing power of its football program enough to compensate for its tiny home TV market?  Lots of questions as to whether it would be an academic fit even though it’s an AAU member already.  Does it meet the Big Ten’s academic standards?

12.  Colorado – Long assumed to be a top Pac-10 target, but could it be a viable Big Ten candidate since it’s actually a better academic and cultural fit with the Big Ten than anyone in the Big XII besides Texas?  Is the population growth trend in the Denver area more attractive than adding presently larger markets like the state of Missouri when looking at this decision 20 or 30 years down the road?

13.  Oklahoma – Obvious national football power, but without AAU membership (unlike Missouri or Nebraska) or high academic rankings (unlike UConn), can it fit in academically?

14.  Kansas – 99% of these decisions are about football, but Kansas isn’t any ordinary basketball school (where only Duke, UNC and Kentucky can compare nationally).  Is the elite status of its basketball program enough to compensate for a historically weak football program that no longer has the services of Baby Mangino?

15.  Texas A&M – Is the Big Ten truly fine with the thought of Texas A&M coming along with Texas in a package deal?  Are the Aggies really a threat to go to the SEC if the Big Ten doesn’t invite them?  What do they bring to the table that Texas doesn’t bring alone?

Please note that K-State is/was not a candidate for the Big 10.


http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-value-of-expansion-candidates-to-the-big-ten-network/


CANDIDATES    TOTAL ADDED REVENUE ESTIMATE
     
Texas    $101,369,004
Rutgers    WITH NYC    $67,798,609
Nebraska    $54,487,990
Maryland    $50,818,889
Boston College    $48,382,692
Notre Dame    $47,629,255
Kansas    $46,320,092
Missouri    $45,901,459
Syracuse    $43,504,813
Connecticut    $38,080,271
Pittsburgh    $34,365,175
Iowa State    $31,831,077
     
Syracuse  WITH NYC    $65,874,573


Please note that K-State is/was not a candidate for Big 10 expansion.

[06wildcat]

Love how the Kansas City market is right up there with New York and Chicago. Absolutely love it.

[sonofdaxjones]

You know you're hitting the bottom of the barrel when you're using a guy who writes a blog in Chicago as your back up.

Nice work.

Oh wait, Frank used "Patrick" a "veteran TV insider".

You know, if you've been in business for very long, you can find a number of "veteran insiders" to say just about anything you want them to say, or what you want to hear, about any industry you can think of.   I bet we could go out and find a whole bunch of un-named "veteran insiders" to say K-State would be a kick ass addition to any conference.

[Stevesie60]

Posted: February 21, 2010 by Frank the Tank in Big Ten, Sports

I would imagine it changed after we 13-1'd you.

[sonofdaxjones]

You know, about a month ago or so, a "unknown radio/tv insider" was on another kstate message board, trying to have a discussion with kcsportsfan (Beems clone).  This "unknown radio/tv insider" was making a very fine, well thought out, facts base case for why K-State was a much stronger, more viable brand name in the KC market than people like kcsportsfan and most low self esteem ku fans gave K-State credit for . . . I'll see if I can't hunt that guy down, and then start a blog, maybe under the name "Dax the . . ." and use quotes from him/her . . . my own "unnamed media insider".  

[OregonSmock]

You know you're hitting the bottom of the barrel when you're using a guy who writes a blog in Chicago as your back up.

Nice work.

Oh wait, Frank used "Patrick" a "veteran TV insider".

You know, if you've been in business for very long, you can find a number of "veteran insiders" to say just about anything you want them to say, or what you want to hear, about any industry you can think of.   I bet we could go out and find a whole bunch of un-named "veteran insiders" to say K-State would be a kick ass addition to any conference.

I know it hurts that KU is right on par with Notre Dame and Mizzou when it comes to adding additional conference revenue, but try not to be so damn butthurt about it, 'Pad.  Worst case scenario for K-State is the Big East or a newly formed version of the Big 12.  Keep your chin up.  

[sonofdaxjones]

It's taken you all of about 5 posts in the last 2 days to go into full blown validation and affirmation mode.

    You're actually using obscure blogs and who quote unnamed "experts" now.   

[chum1]

KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

[sonofdaxjones]

 

[ChiComCat]

I also use Frank the Tank as a source of factual reference

[CHONGS]

Wordpress: the must trusted source in news ever. Seriously trust us, some guy with a blog said it.

[Dr Rick Daris]

bmw- why did phog ban you? i'm still allowed to post there. i mean jesus.

[kitten_mittons]

 Here is my semi-educated guess as to who is on that list of 15 schools as well as the key questions that the Big Ten ought to be asking about them:

Please note that K-State is/was not a candidate for the Big 10.*


Please note that K-State is/was not a candidate for Big 10 expansion.*

*According to a semi-educated guess by someone who calls himself frank the tank and has a blog on a free hosting site.

[Dugout DickStone]

Boy if ku doesn't end up in Big 10 Ben is going to look like a fool.

[EMAWmeister]

KU has a better basketball program

KU doesn't just have a better basketball program... they have a top five basketball program that draws national interest.  KU also owns a majority of a relatively large TV market in Kansas City.  KU is solid academically and is a member of the AAU.  We have a larger alumni base than K-State and a larger athletic budget.  I mean these are simply facts that you can't argue against.  Outside of programs like Texas and Notre Dame, KU is right up there when it comes to bringing additional revenue to another conference.  

Would I like for KU to remain in the same conference with K-State and Mizzou?  Absolutely.  Do I think the Pac 12 and ACC would have room for both KU and K-State?  No, I don't, and if it comes down to KU joining the ACC or Pac 12 instead of joining the Big East with K-State, I'd prefer to go solo.  K-State fans would feel the exact same way if the roles were reversed.  Don't kid yourselves.

Facts?  Oh, my...

How can you even argue against any of that?  KU was ranked 11th in the country in athletic revenue just a few years ago.  We are right outside of the top 20 in total athletic revenue since 2005.  KU has a huge TV contract with ESPN and owns a majority of the Kansas City television market.  What other program in the dying Big 12 would add more additional revenue to another conference outside of Texas and Oklahoma?  

Seriously, Kansas City is not that impressive of a TV market.  I love KC and grew up there, but my God.

I suppose you also think Johnson County rich is the same as NYC or LA rich...

[Trim]

Boy if ku doesn't end up in Big 10 Ben is going to look like a fool.

Not as much as Frank (the Tank).