Author Topic: Health care!  (Read 18951 times)

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yoga-like_abana

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2010, 10:43:52 AM »
Sebilius is there heard her chant Barack Choke Jayhawk. :ksu:

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2010, 11:19:24 AM »


Suckers!

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2010, 11:31:07 AM »


Suckers!

What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2010, 11:36:37 AM »


Suckers!

What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:

Stereotypical liberal lesbian? :dunno:

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2010, 03:16:52 PM »

Offline Maccat

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2010, 03:34:54 PM »
David Letterman said the good thing about the new health care bill is it would cover the Jayhawks "choking".

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2010, 04:11:07 PM »


Suckers!

What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:

Stereotypical liberal lesbian? :dunno:

No, the right.  Not the middle.

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2010, 04:11:52 PM »
David Letterman said the good thing about the new health care bill is it would cover the Jayhawks "choking".

Really?

LOL. 

Letterman got his one good joke for the year in.

Offline asava

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2010, 04:43:32 PM »
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.

imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.


Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2010, 06:07:22 PM »
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.

imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.



I was trying to think if there was any presidence pertaining to the federal government, or even state government, mandating that all citizens must buy a service from a private company. I couldn't think of any.

They are also mandating that insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums on health services for policy holders (currently 65%). That sounds like a recipe for disaster considering the health insurance industry profits account for less than 6% of premiums. As a comparison, Apple is at 19% profit.

Offline asava

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2010, 07:04:52 PM »
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.

imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.



I was trying to think if there was any presidence pertaining to the federal government, or even state government, mandating that all citizens must buy a service from a private company. I couldn't think of any.

They are also mandating that insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums on health services for policy holders (currently 65%). That sounds like a recipe for disaster considering the health insurance industry profits account for less than 6% of premiums. As a comparison, Apple is at 19% profit.

precedent*

and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.

as far as the premiums discussion, apple won't have the entire country buying their products. percentages are relevant to the size of their pools. just a thought.

i'm not really looking to get involved in this debate one way or the other, because in politics someone always has an answer and its always an answer that proves their point in some way.

the only thing i will say is that i am disappointed in the way the GOP has handled this situation. This bill is extremely similar to a certain presidential candidate's own plan in his own state, and in fact modeled in certain ways after it. They are acting like children, utilizing fear and propagandist diction in order to sway constituents. I'm not saying that the Dem's aren't guilty of their own propaganda, but some of this is just unreal. There are better ways to fry a fish than telling a person that they are doing it wrong and that if they don't do it your way they all will die of aids.

The bill passed because of people who were elected to do so. Maybe it wasn't the only reason they were elected, maybe it wasn't even a reason they were elected, but this is how America works. People line themselves up ideologically with a candidate and hope he serves them to the best of his or her ability. The people who created and passed this bill were our (America) representatives. To say that they did not represent America, like so many in the GOP have said, is to give a majority to a vocal minority.

And this is just an observation, but some of the righties are taking the passing of this bill almost EXACTLY like ku fans after Northern Iowa. (if this is too much of a basketball conversation, mods, please move to appropriate board. tia.)

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2010, 10:06:52 PM »
Immunizations are not required, unless you want to go to a public school.  I know several families whose kids haven't been immunized, as they homeschool.


Offline asava

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2010, 12:12:00 AM »

and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.


thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.

but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.

the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.

thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2010, 12:23:38 AM »

and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.


thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.

but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.

the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.

thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).

There is no logic to your logic.  No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as  "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated."  In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created.  Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.

AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant.  Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 01:05:34 AM by Dirty Sanchez »

Offline AzCat

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2010, 12:35:26 AM »
There is no logic to your logic. 

It's worse than that.  He's arguing the legitimacy of a federal mandate by analogizing it to actions of state & local governments.  I take it he's a KU law alumnus ....

Offline CatsFan_58

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2010, 02:25:05 AM »

and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.


thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.

but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.

the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.

thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).

There is no logic to your logic.  No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as  "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated."  In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created.  Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.

AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant.  Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
Love DS...   anyone watch Glenn Beck on Tuesday?

Offline asava

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2010, 08:07:20 AM »
There is no logic to your logic. 

It's worse than that.  He's arguing the legitimacy of a federal mandate by analogizing it to actions of state & local governments.  I take it he's a KU law alumnus ....

 :bait: *

*not in any way affiliated with KU law

also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.


Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2010, 09:18:48 AM »

and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.


thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.

but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.

the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.

thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).

There is no logic to your logic.  No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as  "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated."  In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created.  Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.

AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant.  Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
Love DS...   anyone watch Glenn Beck on Tuesday?

No

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2010, 09:33:25 AM »
The guy who should have been the messiah's running mate, john dingell (so you could have the dingell-barry ticket), wants to "control the people"

http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio-rep-dingell-says-obamacare-will-eventually-control-the-people

Stay blind, useful idiots.   :cool:

Offline pike

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #94 on: March 24, 2010, 10:52:43 AM »
I jumped off the Beck bandwagon ever since he went back on his global warming stance.

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #95 on: March 24, 2010, 11:41:19 AM »
I jumped off the Beck bandwagon ever since he went back on his global warming stance.

 :confused:

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #96 on: March 24, 2010, 02:21:36 PM »
Guess they should have read the bill before signing it.

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #97 on: March 24, 2010, 02:48:48 PM »
Guess they should have read the bill before signing it.

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1


Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #98 on: March 24, 2010, 02:53:26 PM »
Maybe they should have, i don't know.....READ THE BILL!!!

Offline AzCat

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #99 on: March 24, 2010, 03:10:13 PM »
also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.

Congress can and does enact whatever the hell it wants to enact but doing so doesn't make the new laws Constitutional.   You seem to have said above that the individual mandate will withstand a Constitutional challenge and that there is precedent for it.  No need for a discussion just yet, as a preliminary matter please cite the S.Ct. cases which you believe are such precedent.