Author Topic: Health care!  (Read 10432 times)

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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Health care!
« on: February 24, 2010, 09:21:23 PM »
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.

Quote
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.

An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.

The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.

Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.


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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 09:22:07 PM »
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.

Quote
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.

An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.

The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.

Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.

 :flush:

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 09:27:07 PM »
Hey, John Doug,  we already have a poster here with 2 first names.  And he's much better, bro.


Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 10:33:14 PM »
Hey, John Doug,  we already have a poster here with 2 first names.  And he's much better, bro.


Small j and d bro. Sorry about your brain surgery.  :frown:

Offline OK_Cat

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 11:24:06 PM »
wrong dude, dude.  dobbie is the brain-tard.   :users:

Offline pike

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 12:16:52 AM »

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 08:21:57 AM »
There can be no compromise other than toward free market principles.

the messiah has been taught by alinsky the art of the negotiation in "social change."  Ask for more than you can get, then work your way back.  This gives you progress toward your ultimate goal.  Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  Soon, you have what you want.  That's how it must be done in a republic, because revolutions create backlash and a reduced ability to affect change.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 12:59:40 PM »
wrong dude, dude.  dobbie is the brain-tard.   :users:

Whoa, my bad. You seemed to be the most likely candidate. Sorry.

Offline CatsFan_58

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 02:01:21 PM »
cloward and piven at work.

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 02:57:45 PM »
"I Don't Count My Time Because I'm The President"


Offline SuperG

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 05:50:24 AM »
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.

Quote
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.

An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.

The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.

Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.


Weak. WEEEEEEAAAAAAK!!!!.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid

Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 08:16:54 AM »
Don't forget about the story of little Johnnie.  Doctors amputated both feet just so they could make money!

Offline Jeffy

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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 09:45:37 AM »
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.

Quote
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.

An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.

The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.

Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.


Weak. WEEEEEEAAAAAAK!!!!.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid

Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.

I site a story from the London Times, and you site a video from Frontline. LOL

You say that there is no need to reinvent the wheel, but that is exactly what Obama is trying to do. That is one of the main arguments the Republicans are using.

Offline SuperG

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 02:47:05 PM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

Offline Jeffy

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 03:06:33 PM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

You missed the part above where it said "This bill is a fiscal disaster."

Offline KSU187

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 03:28:04 PM »
Quote
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.

So, we just need to "educate" ourselves (condescension alert) and we need to give up our knuckle-dragging angry white mobs who protest and propagate the "us against them mentality"... and the evil, evil, insurance companies are raping everyone...

Aren't these the Media Matters talking points from last June?  :dunno:

Its not working, bra.. America doesn't want this crap.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 03:30:35 PM by KSU187 »

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 04:10:53 PM »
Quote
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.

So, we just need to "educate" ourselves (condescension alert) and we need to give up our knuckle-dragging angry white mobs who protest and propagate the "us against them mentality"... and the evil, evil, insurance companies are raping everyone...

Aren't these the Media Matters talking points from last June?  :dunno:

Its not working, bra.. America doesn't want this crap.




Bullseye

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2010, 05:03:53 PM »
This guy's never getting sick so screw Congress for wasting their time with this crap :angry:

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2010, 06:42:14 PM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.

Offline SuperG

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2010, 07:34:06 PM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.

I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they rough ridin' thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.

I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives eff about you.

Offline CatsFan_58

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2010, 12:04:40 AM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.

I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they rough ridin' thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.

I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives eff about you.
glenn beck told me he cares about me.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2010, 12:52:19 AM »
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.

I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?

What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.

I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they fracking thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.

I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives shazbot! about you.

Strange post for someone who knows nothing about me. I don't watch or listen to Glenn Beck, but I did see his speech at CPAC and thought it was good.

I have a friend with a brother who is a doctor in Canada and deals with the government daily. He dislikes the care he is allowed to provide, or rather the lack of care he is allowed to provide. This doctor traveled to Washington state and paid for a surgical procedure he needed because he was afraid the wait was going to adversely affect his health.

We all have anecdotal stories, but the fact is 85% of us have health care, and this bill before the Senate will only add about 5-7 % more. 20-30 million will still be uninsured and all of us will pay more, but it will be through taxes and penalties. It also won't take effect until 2013 after 3 years of increased taxes. There are so many more options available that will not increase taxes and could take effect tomorrow.

This is all about Obama and has nothing to do with us, otherwise they would put an end to it now and start over. That's what every poll indicates the majority of people want.

Offline SuperG

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2010, 02:08:19 AM »
The 85% number you throw out there is far from fact. It's also not health care that is provide by insurance companies. It's health coverage. Health care is between you and your health provider.

Regardless of weather or not someone has "coverage" the number of medical related bankruptcies in the last few years prove the insurance companies aren't living up to their end of the policies and/or a huge number of people who have "coverage" are significantly under-covered. So the only thing we do know for sure, is that the status quo is not working for American people as a whole. Although the blame for skyrocketing healthcare costs needs to be shared by doctors, patients, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc... the overwhelming amount of blame falls to the insurance companies.

As far as your last statement about this being all about Obama... I can just as easily contend that it's all about the Republican desire to knock Obama down. Statements to the like have been well documented from the right for the last year. The lack of any real ideas from the Republicans about how to address the issue of healthcare, aside from "leave it the way it is", is just icing on the cake.

I would be fine starting over. But is there any indication the second time would be any better than the first. If your original post is an indicator of the attitudes that the right would be bringing to the table, then starting over is absolutely pointless.

Offline Dirty Sanchez

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Re: Health care!
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2010, 05:57:51 AM »
The 85% number you throw out there is far from fact. It's also not health care that is provide by insurance companies. It's health coverage. Health care is between you and your health provider.

Don't blame this on us.  The statists have set the terminology in this debate.

Quote
Regardless of weather or not someone has "coverage" the number of medical related bankruptcies in the last few years prove the insurance companies aren't living up to their end of the policies and/or a huge number of people who have "coverage" are significantly under-covered. So the only thing we do know for sure, is that the status quo is not working for American people as a whole. Although the blame for skyrocketing healthcare costs needs to be shared by doctors, patients, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc... the overwhelming amount of blame falls to the insurance companies.

Insurance companies are businesses.  They can't cover people they can't afford.  Forcing them to cover those people will either put them out of business or raise rates for those of us who don't go to the doc much but still have insurance as sensible risk management.  And actually it is working for the American public as a whole.  There are likely <10% that are struggling.  Many of those would be able to afford things with more reasonable personal budgetary choices.  Don't get cable TV instead of your heart meds. 

Quote
As far as your last statement about this being all about Obama... I can just as easily contend that it's all about the Republican desire to knock Obama down. Statements to the like have been well documented from the right for the last year. The lack of any real ideas from the Republicans about how to address the issue of healthcare, aside from "leave it the way it is", is just icing on the cake.

Pundits don't have to come up with ideas.  The legislators have, but they've been shut out.  Another terminology set by the statists:  any idea that doesn't involve more government isn't "real."[/quote]

Quote
I would be fine starting over. But is there any indication the second time would be any better than the first. If your original post is an indicator of the attitudes that the right would be bringing to the table, then starting over is absolutely pointless.

It would be pointless.  The statists will not look at any plan that involves market forces, just more government control.  Idealogues like pelosei won't reach across the aisle.  As has been the tactic of the dems for many years, set the terminology that "bipartisan" means the republicans concede to everything the dems want. 

Sorry, the American people see through that crap now.  Game over.