goemaw.com
General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: john "teach me how to" dougie on February 24, 2010, 09:21:23 PM
-
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7039285.ece) they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.
An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.
The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.
Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.
-
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7039285.ece) they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.
An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.
The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.
Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.
:flush:
-
Hey, John Doug, we already have a poster here with 2 first names. And he's much better, bro.
-
Hey, John Doug, we already have a poster here with 2 first names. And he's much better, bro.
Small j and d bro. Sorry about your brain surgery. :frown:
-
wrong dude, dude. dobbie is the brain-tard. :users:
-
41% approve 56% disapprove
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform
See ya health care
-
There can be no compromise other than toward free market principles.
the messiah has been taught by alinsky the art of the negotiation in "social change." Ask for more than you can get, then work your way back. This gives you progress toward your ultimate goal. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Soon, you have what you want. That's how it must be done in a republic, because revolutions create backlash and a reduced ability to affect change.
-
wrong dude, dude. dobbie is the brain-tard. :users:
Whoa, my bad. You seemed to be the most likely candidate. Sorry.
-
cloward and piven at work.
-
"I Don't Count My Time Because I'm The President"
-
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7039285.ece) they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.
An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.
The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.
Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.
Weak. WEEEEEEAAAAAAK!!!!.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.
-
Don't forget about the story of little Johnnie. Doctors amputated both feet just so they could make money!
-
Obamowned!
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/25/paul-ryan-to-obama-you-realize-your-bill-is-a-fiscal-disaster-right/
-
If there are any government-run health care still around, here is another story about the fantastic experiences (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7039285.ece) they have in the U.K., the shining example of national health.
Patients were routinely neglected or left “sobbing and humiliated” by staff at an NHS trust where at least 400 deaths have been linked to appalling care.
An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs.
The inquiry report, published yesterday by Robert Francis, QC, included proposals for tough new regulations that could lead to managers at failing NHS trusts being struck off.
Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.
Weak. WEEEEEEAAAAAAK!!!!.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.
I site a story from the London Times, and you site a video from Frontline. LOL
You say that there is no need to reinvent the wheel, but that is exactly what Obama is trying to do. That is one of the main arguments the Republicans are using.
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
You missed the part above where it said "This bill is a fiscal disaster."
-
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.
So, we just need to "educate" ourselves (condescension alert) and we need to give up our knuckle-dragging angry white mobs who protest and propagate the "us against them mentality"... and the evil, evil, insurance companies are raping everyone...
Aren't these the Media Matters talking points from last June? :dunno:
Its not working, bra.. America doesn't want this crap.
-
Perhaps if people in this country were willing to educate themselves they would give up their ridiculous us against them mentality and realize that there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. The only reason we don't have some form of healthcare for all citizens at this point is the need by career politicians to not piss off/prop up health insurance entities.
So, we just need to "educate" ourselves (condescension alert) and we need to give up our knuckle-dragging angry white mobs who protest and propagate the "us against them mentality"... and the evil, evil, insurance companies are raping everyone...
Aren't these the Media Matters talking points from last June? :dunno:
Its not working, bra.. America doesn't want this crap.
Bullseye
-
This guy's never getting sick so screw Congress for wasting their time with this crap :angry:
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.
I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they rough ridin' thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.
I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives eff about you.
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.
I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they rough ridin' thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.
I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives eff about you.
glenn beck told me he cares about me.
-
You offered an article that showed the atypical situation of one hospital in the slums. I offered a documentary that looked in-depth at the healthcare systems of five nations. LOL is right.
I didn't say a goddamn thing about Obama; That was you. And I fully realize that the republicans are arguing against providing healthcare for all people. But I said politicians... did I not?
What makes you think this is an atypical situation? Are you saying the government provides better health care for people in wealthy areas than in poor? Sounds like a win for private health insurance.
I think it's an atypical situation because I actually know real British people... and real Canadian people... and real Irish people who really know what nationalized health care looks like... And they fracking thank their lucky stars for it. I think it's atypical because I've gone beyond reading just one article and regurgitating it as fact.
I think it's funny too that the words educate and education cause a "condescension alert". It's probably condescending too that I've traveled to foreign countries and actually had conversations with real foreign people about these very issues. You'll have to pardon me if I become "condescending" then when dealing with people who mostly come from my same roots, and who constantly take action against their own best interest so that insurance companies can continue to claim record profits by providing poorer and poorer health care year after year. Your goddamn right I'll be condescending about that... 'cause I'm a condescending bastard and you're a sheep who actually thinks Glen Beck gives shazbot! about you.
Strange post for someone who knows nothing about me. I don't watch or listen to Glenn Beck, but I did see his speech at CPAC and thought it was good.
I have a friend with a brother who is a doctor in Canada and deals with the government daily. He dislikes the care he is allowed to provide, or rather the lack of care he is allowed to provide. This doctor traveled to Washington state and paid for a surgical procedure he needed because he was afraid the wait was going to adversely affect his health.
We all have anecdotal stories, but the fact is 85% of us have health care, and this bill before the Senate will only add about 5-7 % more. 20-30 million will still be uninsured and all of us will pay more, but it will be through taxes and penalties. It also won't take effect until 2013 after 3 years of increased taxes. There are so many more options available that will not increase taxes and could take effect tomorrow.
This is all about Obama and has nothing to do with us, otherwise they would put an end to it now and start over. That's what every poll indicates the majority of people want.
-
The 85% number you throw out there is far from fact. It's also not health care that is provide by insurance companies. It's health coverage. Health care is between you and your health provider.
Regardless of weather or not someone has "coverage" the number of medical related bankruptcies in the last few years prove the insurance companies aren't living up to their end of the policies and/or a huge number of people who have "coverage" are significantly under-covered. So the only thing we do know for sure, is that the status quo is not working for American people as a whole. Although the blame for skyrocketing healthcare costs needs to be shared by doctors, patients, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc... the overwhelming amount of blame falls to the insurance companies.
As far as your last statement about this being all about Obama... I can just as easily contend that it's all about the Republican desire to knock Obama down. Statements to the like have been well documented from the right for the last year. The lack of any real ideas from the Republicans about how to address the issue of healthcare, aside from "leave it the way it is", is just icing on the cake.
I would be fine starting over. But is there any indication the second time would be any better than the first. If your original post is an indicator of the attitudes that the right would be bringing to the table, then starting over is absolutely pointless.
-
The 85% number you throw out there is far from fact. It's also not health care that is provide by insurance companies. It's health coverage. Health care is between you and your health provider.
Don't blame this on us. The statists have set the terminology in this debate.
Regardless of weather or not someone has "coverage" the number of medical related bankruptcies in the last few years prove the insurance companies aren't living up to their end of the policies and/or a huge number of people who have "coverage" are significantly under-covered. So the only thing we do know for sure, is that the status quo is not working for American people as a whole. Although the blame for skyrocketing healthcare costs needs to be shared by doctors, patients, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc... the overwhelming amount of blame falls to the insurance companies.
Insurance companies are businesses. They can't cover people they can't afford. Forcing them to cover those people will either put them out of business or raise rates for those of us who don't go to the doc much but still have insurance as sensible risk management. And actually it is working for the American public as a whole. There are likely <10% that are struggling. Many of those would be able to afford things with more reasonable personal budgetary choices. Don't get cable TV instead of your heart meds.
As far as your last statement about this being all about Obama... I can just as easily contend that it's all about the Republican desire to knock Obama down. Statements to the like have been well documented from the right for the last year. The lack of any real ideas from the Republicans about how to address the issue of healthcare, aside from "leave it the way it is", is just icing on the cake.
Pundits don't have to come up with ideas. The legislators have, but they've been shut out. Another terminology set by the statists: any idea that doesn't involve more government isn't "real."[/quote]
I would be fine starting over. But is there any indication the second time would be any better than the first. If your original post is an indicator of the attitudes that the right would be bringing to the table, then starting over is absolutely pointless.
It would be pointless. The statists will not look at any plan that involves market forces, just more government control. Idealogues like pelosei won't reach across the aisle. As has been the tactic of the dems for many years, set the terminology that "bipartisan" means the republicans concede to everything the dems want.
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
actually, the majority of americans do see through this administration's bull. all of the senate races are turning in favor of conservatives because the people don't want this crap.
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
According to Rasmussen, 41% of the American People Favor Obama’s Health Care Plan, 56% Oppose (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/february_2010/41_favor_obama_s_health_care_plan_56_oppose)
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
Yes, it is over. If you love this Pres., take your pick of which outcome you want:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
or
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
If neither one of these fit your idea of what America should be, then pick this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humesk9fund.org%2Fbuttons%2FAmerican-Flag.jpg&hash=5bbff4474d6e97066c1a09714d467e4c5ff8daee)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
According to Rasmussen, 41% of the American People Favor Obama’s Health Care Plan, 56% Oppose (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/february_2010/41_favor_obama_s_health_care_plan_56_oppose)
Considering most issues seem about 50/50 these days, that's pretty damning to this obamination of a bill
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
Yes, it is over. If you love this Pres., take your pick of which outcome you want:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
or
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
If neither one of these fit your idea of what America should be, then pick this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humesk9fund.org%2Fbuttons%2FAmerican-Flag.jpg&hash=5bbff4474d6e97066c1a09714d467e4c5ff8daee)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Sometimes I have to work to expose certain people as idiots.
TBL does this all by himself. We're very proud of you. :thumbsup:
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
Yes, it is over. If you love this Pres., take your pick of which outcome you want:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
or
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
If neither one of these fit your idea of what America should be, then pick this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humesk9fund.org%2Fbuttons%2FAmerican-Flag.jpg&hash=5bbff4474d6e97066c1a09714d467e4c5ff8daee)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Sometimes I have to work to expose certain people as idiots.
TBL does this all by himself. We're very proud of you. :thumbsup:
Please remind me of your comment, when you're saying, "But..but...but.......".
-
Sorry, the American people see through that crap now. Game over.
Obviously, you have a narrow view of who are "the American people". Game is certainly not over.
Yes, it is over. If you love this Pres., take your pick of which outcome you want:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
or
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
If neither one of these fit your idea of what America should be, then pick this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humesk9fund.org%2Fbuttons%2FAmerican-Flag.jpg&hash=5bbff4474d6e97066c1a09714d467e4c5ff8daee)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.
Sometimes I have to work to expose certain people as idiots.
TBL does this all by himself. We're very proud of you. :thumbsup:
Sorry, but couldn't let this go with just one reply. The last one hundred years (give or take) has seen the rise and fall of communism and fascism. Depending on which party you support, will show which direction it's gone. The only thing they have in common is they both started with Progressivism. Now that Progressivism has publicly reared it's ugly head, it's time you made your choice. What shall it be?
-
Meh. We're headed here before we go anywhere else:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsymonsez.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fhooverville1930.jpg&hash=1d66e68244263209867ac8146ed902818985245a)
Donks have us on the fast track there, Trunks would have us on the moderately fast track to the same destination. The sooner the societal collapse, the sooner we can get on with restoring liberty.
-
Meh. We're headed here before we go anywhere else:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsymonsez.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fhooverville1930.jpg&hash=1d66e68244263209867ac8146ed902818985245a)
Donks have us on the fast track there, Trunks would have us on the moderately fast track to the same destination. The sooner the societal collapse, the sooner we can get on with restoring liberty.
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
-
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
You're apparently laboring under the false presumption that the collapse can be avoided. As a viable governing philosophy the modern western social democracy model of socialism is as dead as all of the left's other satanist -isms (Marxism, communism, Leninism, fascism, Nazism, etc.). The body is still running about the barnyard making gurgling sounds but he head is very clearly off that particular chicken. The only interesting questions left are: How quickly does the collapse occur? And what comes next?
-
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
You're apparently laboring under the false presumption that the collapse can be avoided. As a viable governing philosophy the modern western social democracy model of socialism is as dead as all of the left's other satanist -isms (Marxism, communism, Leninism, fascism, Nazism, etc.). The body is still running about the barnyard making gurgling sounds but he head is very clearly off that particular chicken. The only interesting questions left are: How quickly does the collapse occur? And what comes next?
The 'isms are most certainly not dead. Just look at the education protests. Any time that people feel it's a "human right" to have education, then the times are ripe. It's the same age range as what happened in socialist germany in the 30's. What, with th e "younger" generation stating that it's time for grandma to move over and let them have their health care, it's the same eugenics feeling.
-
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
You're apparently laboring under the false presumption that the collapse can be avoided. As a viable governing philosophy the modern western social democracy model of socialism is as dead as all of the left's other satanist -isms (Marxism, communism, Leninism, fascism, Nazism, etc.). The body is still running about the barnyard making gurgling sounds but he head is very clearly off that particular chicken. The only interesting questions left are: How quickly does the collapse occur? And what comes next?
The 'isms are most certainly not dead. Just look at the education protests. Any time that people feel it's a "human right" to have education, then the times are ripe. It's the same age range as what happened in socialist germany in the 30's. What, with th e "younger" generation stating that it's time for grandma to move over and let them have their health care, it's the same eugenics feeling.
Apparently reading comprehension(-ism) is dead as well.
What I said, and what has been most clearly demonstrated during the course of the last century, is that the satanist -isms are dead as viable governing philosophies. Once upon a time there was a valid question about their viability but it has been sufficiently answered. Of course there will always be those ignorant of history ready and willing to form a cadre of useful idiots in order to inflict history's failures on the present day.
Interesting that you mention Eugenics even if the context of your comment leads me to believe that you may not actually know what it is. What is produced, in effect, by social democracies is actually a form of reverse Eugenics: the most capable are forced to work ever-harder to support an ever-growing less capable entitled underclass. Population demographics throughout the developed world bear out the fact that those most capable have less children while the entitled welfare recipient classes breed like crazy producing ever-more entitled children who are supported by ever-fewer children of the highly capable.
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article7052606.ece
DAMNING reports on the state of the National Health Service, suppressed by the government, reveal how patients’ needs have been neglected.
They diagnose a blind pursuit of political and managerial targets as the root cause of a string of hospital scandals that have cost thousands of lives.
The harsh verdict on the state of the NHS, after a spending splurge under Labour between 2000 and 2008, raises worrying questions about the future quality of the health service as budgets are squeezed.
One report, based on the advice of almost 200 top managers and doctors, says hospitals ignored basic hygiene to cram in patients to meet waiting-time targets.
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article7052606.ece
DAMNING reports on the state of the National Health Service, suppressed by the government, reveal how patients’ needs have been neglected.
They diagnose a blind pursuit of political and managerial targets as the root cause of a string of hospital scandals that have cost thousands of lives.
The harsh verdict on the state of the NHS, after a spending splurge under Labour between 2000 and 2008, raises worrying questions about the future quality of the health service as budgets are squeezed.
One report, based on the advice of almost 200 top managers and doctors, says hospitals ignored basic hygiene to cram in patients to meet waiting-time targets.
lol. just what we need.
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2Fvan001.jpg&hash=968378a7e0c6cd57b44275a3fe2a76c79a83dc45)
-
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
You're apparently laboring under the false presumption that the collapse can be avoided. As a viable governing philosophy the modern western social democracy model of socialism is as dead as all of the left's other satanist -isms (Marxism, communism, Leninism, fascism, Nazism, etc.). The body is still running about the barnyard making gurgling sounds but he head is very clearly off that particular chicken. The only interesting questions left are: How quickly does the collapse occur? And what comes next?
The 'isms are most certainly not dead. Just look at the education protests. Any time that people feel it's a "human right" to have education, then the times are ripe. It's the same age range as what happened in socialist germany in the 30's. What, with th e "younger" generation stating that it's time for grandma to move over and let them have their health care, it's the same eugenics feeling.
Apparently reading comprehension(-ism) is dead as well.
What I said, and what has been most clearly demonstrated during the course of the last century, is that the satanist -isms are dead as viable governing philosophies. Once upon a time there was a valid question about their viability but it has been sufficiently answered. Of course there will always be those ignorant of history ready and willing to form a cadre of useful idiots in order to inflict history's failures on the present day.
Interesting that you mention Eugenics even if the context of your comment leads me to believe that you may not actually know what it is. What is produced, in effect, by social democracies is actually a form of reverse Eugenics: the most capable are forced to work ever-harder to support an ever-growing less capable entitled underclass. Population demographics throughout the developed world bear out the fact that those most capable have less children while the entitled welfare recipient classes breed like crazy producing ever-more entitled children who are supported by ever-fewer children of the highly capable.
My use of the term, eugenics, refers to the type used by the Nazi's in the late 30's and early 40's. Specifically the idea that those that are "incurable" should be euthanized. Or as they said, "Life unworthy of life".
-
Societal collapse is what allowed fascism/communism to get kicked into high gear in their respective countries. You've forgotten your history, son.
You're apparently laboring under the false presumption that the collapse can be avoided. As a viable governing philosophy the modern western social democracy model of socialism is as dead as all of the left's other satanist -isms (Marxism, communism, Leninism, fascism, Nazism, etc.). The body is still running about the barnyard making gurgling sounds but he head is very clearly off that particular chicken. The only interesting questions left are: How quickly does the collapse occur? And what comes next?
The 'isms are most certainly not dead. Just look at the education protests. Any time that people feel it's a "human right" to have education, then the times are ripe. It's the same age range as what happened in socialist germany in the 30's. What, with th e "younger" generation stating that it's time for grandma to move over and let them have their health care, it's the same eugenics feeling.
Apparently reading comprehension(-ism) is dead as well.
What I said, and what has been most clearly demonstrated during the course of the last century, is that the satanist -isms are dead as viable governing philosophies. Once upon a time there was a valid question about their viability but it has been sufficiently answered. Of course there will always be those ignorant of history ready and willing to form a cadre of useful idiots in order to inflict history's failures on the present day.
Interesting that you mention Eugenics even if the context of your comment leads me to believe that you may not actually know what it is. What is produced, in effect, by social democracies is actually a form of reverse Eugenics: the most capable are forced to work ever-harder to support an ever-growing less capable entitled underclass. Population demographics throughout the developed world bear out the fact that those most capable have less children while the entitled welfare recipient classes breed like crazy producing ever-more entitled children who are supported by ever-fewer children of the highly capable.
My use of the term, eugenics, refers to the type used by the Nazi's in the late 30's and early 40's. Specifically the idea that those that are "incurable" should be euthanized. Or as they said, "Life unworthy of life".
You should really stick to snarfing donuts and being utterly unable to catch me when I blow through your jurisdiction in the low 3-digits. :driving:
-
Commitee on Ways and Means Report on Health Care
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf - 9 Pages
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
***Highlights of New IRS Authority***
IRS agents verify if you have “acceptable” health care
coverage
IRS has the authority to fine you up to $2,250 or 2 percent
of your income (whichever is greater) for failure to prove
that you have purchased “minimum essential coverage”
IRS can confiscate your tax refund
IRS audits are likely to increase
IRS will need up to $10 billion to administer the new health
care program this decade
IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional
auditors, agents and other employees to investigate and
collect billions in new taxes from Americans
Nearly half of all these new individual mandate taxes will
be paid by Americans earning less than 300 percent of
poverty ($66,150 for a family of four)
***SPECIAL EXEMPTION***
Democrats prohibit the IRS from imposing these taxes and
penalties on illegal immigrants
-
More Dead Babies
-
Apparently it passed or something
-
eff YES. :ksu:
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
Willkommen zum sozialismus!
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F56%2FHammer_sickle_clean.png&hash=1169f40834c91d461f12db855965b86f09166f47)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.showstudio.com%2F2008%2F09%2F01%2Fswastika.png&hash=243a8005ddc139a0b6c18d2ccff12f008b679e27).
Willkommen zum sozialismus!
I don't really give a crap about this issue either way since I'm immortal but I'm kinda glad it passed so I can see the crazies start talking crap like this.
P.S. Socialism isn't Fascism or Communism durrrrrrr
-
P.S. Socialism isn't Fascism or Communism durrrrrrr
au contrair. The german form of fascism came in the form of....wait for it...national socialism. It was a form of big government statism where people were beholden to the state and loyal to the nation.
This only contrasts fundamentally with soviet-style socialism in that it was international socialism where borders were to be taken down.
socialism, according to marx, was the transitional step from capitalism to full communism. We're there.
-
America, you had a nice ride
-
How effective will Obamacare be when 39 states (the ones that currently have sovereignty resolutions in place or pending) plus all the years of litigation take effect? I'm guessing, if nothing else, the courts will put a hold on anything taking effect until resolution of some of the major issues.
-
That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"
-
Making fun of Republicans after their colossal loss on this issue is more fun than making fun of KU for losing yesterday.
By the way, I hope Rush Limbaugh enjoys that Gubmint Health Care in Costa Rica.
-
That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"
It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....
-
That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"
It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....
So no response, eh? :lol:
Once again, common sense wins out and republicans are left sucking their thumbs and name-calling.
-
That's sad that the republican party has no turned into "the party that stalls and bitches"
It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....
So no response, eh? :lol:
Once again, common sense wins out and republicans are left sucking their thumbs and name-calling.
It's liiiikkkkkeeee raaaaaaiiiinnnn on a sunny day.....
-
If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.
In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!
-
If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.
In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!
:facepalm:
-
If you're going to try and use lyrics from a song to 'make a point,' at least get the lyrics correct.
In the meantime, keep crying. Big juicy tears!
how about It's like a black fly in your Chardonnay?
-
I'm quite pleased that this passed and particularly that it was passed in the manner in which it was. Obamacareis one of the last best hopes for the republic. :cheers:
-
You're the only Republican in America who isn't in full-on panic mode.
-
Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Republican.
Don't hold out hope that the courts will enjoin and eventually overturn the entire bill Jeffy. It's very unlikely that the courts will lift the hood on the legislative sausage-making process and find the entire mess to be unconstitutional. They're not going to inquire into the manner in which it was passed, the trillion dollars of double-counting that was necessary to make it appear deficit neutral, the purchase of House votes by the Executive Branch, etc. The only way it will be reversed en toto is if a sufficient number of the American people vote to give the Republicans a supermajority in the Senate concurrent with control of the House & Executive which is also exceedingly unlikely though quite a bit more likely than the courts striking down the entire bill.
Parts of Obamacare will eventually be found to be unconstitutional (the individual mandate being at the top of the list of likely candidates) but it will be on a line-by-line / paragraph-by-paragraph basis. Most of the 2700+ pages will stand unless they're reversed at the ballot box.
-
Only thing that sucks at this point is that it will still go on for another year debating the "fixes" in the senate. I have given up caring and just want it to be over. Both sides are fracking liars. The bill is crap for working americans and the dems don't care because they want to be known for passing healthcare. Now, most of those dems are going to get voted out and repubs will move in and we will get more one sided crap bills. The whole system needs to be blown up. :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:
Best part of the debate was the lady that got up and declared that "being a woman is a pre existing condition". What stupid lib whore.
-
"a no smoking sign........on your cigarette break." <--- THANKS GOV FOR INSTITUTING AND DESIGNATING CERTAIN AREAS THAT BAN CIGARETTE SMOKING!! YOU HAVE WITHOUT A DOUBT SAVED THE LIVES OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS AND HAVE HELPED MILLIONS MORE BY ISOLATING DUMB HEAD SMOKERS TO BITCH, HACK AND WHEEZE SEPARATE FROM THE GENERAL POPULOUS
:doom: <---- EXCEPT W/ NO SMOKING!
-
Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Republican.
Don't hold out hope that the courts will enjoin and eventually overturn the entire bill Jeffy. It's very unlikely that the courts will lift the hood on the legislative sausage-making process and find the entire mess to be unconstitutional. They're not going to inquire into the manner in which it was passed, the trillion dollars of double-counting that was necessary to make it appear deficit neutral, the purchase of House votes by the Executive Branch, etc. The only way it will be reversed en toto is if a sufficient number of the American people vote to give the Republicans a supermajority in the Senate concurrent with control of the House & Executive which is also exceedingly unlikely though quite a bit more likely than the courts striking down the entire bill.
Parts of Obamacare will eventually be found to be unconstitutional (the individual mandate being at the top of the list of likely candidates) but it will be on a line-by-line / paragraph-by-paragraph basis. Most of the 2700+ pages will stand unless they're reversed at the ballot box.
I'm not holding out hope of the courts being the only solution, only part of a multipronged attack. The ballot box/the people and state governments are also to major parts. I definitely have a part of me that agrees with your earlier post, that Obamacare is a good thing. It has created a much more active and informed electorate, which is the best thing for this country. There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past. I'm still not convinced that 10-15 years down the road, the US will have divided in much the same way the Soviet Union.
-
Just spoke to a guy at work who's wife is a primary care doc. He wad happy about the bill passing. His wife said last night that their retirement just got moved up. She is closing down her office as soon as this POS kicks in. She already stopped accepting Medicaid as they lost money on every person. Sweet, more patients less doctors. Sweet idea. :runaway:
-
I asked a buddy, who works in admin at a hospital, what he and his hospital think of it
Well, something needed to change. We ‘eat’ in the neighborhood of twenty million a year by caring for uninsured patients. If we’re able to recoup some of that the consensus seems to be that we’ll be in better shape and in less need of increasing rates across the board.
Also, by and large we’re supportive of the Medicare reforms in the bill—the hope is that they will help reduce some over-utilization by ‘frequent flyers’.
Certainly not perfect, but it is better than the status quo….
I typically don't breach the subject of politics with him at all, since we are polar opposites.
-
The ballot box/the people and state governments are also to major parts.
You can cross state governments off that list as well, at least for the most part.
The declarations of sovreignty currently issuing from many state legislatures are without legal effect and it's a well-settled point that states cannot overrule the federal government when the latter acts in accord with its constitutional authority. States may be able to deep six the individual mandate & some of the kickbacks but it's doubtful that they'll be able to undo much else through the courts.
The states could demand a Constitutional Convention and attempt to make the bill unconstitutional that way but the process if fraught with peril. Given who controls many of our state legislatures it's as likely as not that a Convention would just go ahead and adopt the Communist Manifesto as our new Constitution. It would almost certainly do more harm than good.
-
I asked a buddy, who works in admin at a hospital, what he and his hospital think of it
Well, something needed to change. We ‘eat’ in the neighborhood of twenty million a year by caring for uninsured patients. If we’re able to recoup some of that the consensus seems to be that we’ll be in better shape and in less need of increasing rates across the board.
Also, by and large we’re supportive of the Medicare reforms in the bill—the hope is that they will help reduce some over-utilization by ‘frequent flyers’.
Certainly not perfect, but it is better than the status quo….
I typically don't breach the subject of politics with him at all, since we are polar opposites.
that is kind of what I have heard so far. May be ok for hospitals, but primary care docs, not so much. Wasn't Barry for small business? :dunno:
-
Here's some highlights of what will be signed into law:
HSA's - limit of $2500 per year, and only prescription drugs and insulin will be allowed. No more OTC medication.
Non-Profit Hospitals - to continue their tax exemption, they must provide certain levels of charitable service, forego collection activities, and meet other standards of community work as set by the HHS.
Fees on branded prescriptions - 75% on sales from $225M - $400M, then 100%.
Fees on medical devices - 50% on sales from $5M - $25M
Health Insurance Providers - Must present justification for premium increases. If not justified as determined by HHS, they can't participate in any exchanges.
Premium factors - the only factors that can be considered are: individual or family, rating area, age, tobacco use. Every insurer must accept every business and individual.
Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.
Companies can offer a national plan - the plan must meet all of the HHS requirements and all state requirements. It must be offered in at least 33 states initially, and 40 states eventually. If a company offers a national plan without abortion coverage, it must offer the same plan that includes abortion coverage.
Also on abortion - there is language prohibiting the use of federal funds, and segregating funds, but is disingenuous because a woman can get subsidized for everything else. There's also an abortion surcharge on all policies of not less than $1 per month.
State exchanges - a state can contract with one other state to set up an exchange, but it must be approved by HHS.
-
Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.
This is brutal. California enacted a wide-ranging coverage mandate while I lived there and the cost of health insurance absolutely exploded.
-
Required services - A whole range of services are required and I won't list them all, but included are maternity and newborn care, substance abuse, and pediatric care that includes oral and vision. Abortion is not required, with an exception I'll explain later.
This is brutal. California enacted a wide-ranging coverage mandate while I lived there and the cost of health insurance absolutely exploded.
AzCat Logic Check:
Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.
Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?
Nil.
AzCat logic is still good.
-
AzCat Logic Check:
Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.
Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?
Nil.
AzCat logic is still good.
They've patterned their new federal insurance regulatory scheme after California's electricity deregulation plan of roughly a decade ago. There California forced generators to split from retail sellers (grid operators) while simultaneously tightly capping retail prices. Formerly stable vertically-integrated businesses quickly went broke as energy prices spiked generation costs which spiked wholesale prices charged by generators all while retail prices remained tightly capped. With retail sellers unable to pass their costs through they died quick deaths.
Here the lefties have designed a plan to spike costs borne by insurance companies while tightly regulating the costs passed through to consumers. They'll quickly bankrupt private insurers and be back clamoring for a wholesale government takeover of all health care in a few years all while claiming that it's a failure of the free market.
-
AzCat Logic Check:
Insurance companies are required to insure children, to age 26 on parents policy. No one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies can't limit the amount of pay outs on your policy.
Odds of insurance companies staying in business without sky rocketing the costs of their policies?
Nil.
AzCat logic is still good.
They've patterned their new federal insurance regulatory scheme after California's electricity deregulation plan of roughly a decade ago. There California forced generators to split from retail sellers (grid operators) while simultaneously tightly capping retail prices. Formerly stable vertically-integrated businesses quickly went broke as energy prices spiked generation costs which spiked wholesale prices charged by generators all while retail prices remained tightly capped. With retail sellers unable to pass their costs through they died quick deaths.
Here the lefties have designed a plan to spike costs borne by insurance companies while tightly regulating the costs passed through to consumers. They'll quickly bankrupt private insurers and be back clamoring for a wholesale government takeover of all health care in a few years all while claiming that it's a failure of the free market.
We agree on something. :runaway:
-
Sebilius is there heard her chant Barack Choke Jayhawk. :ksu:
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20100322%2Fi%2Fr3234687515.jpg%3Fx%3D400%26amp%3By%3D295%26amp%3Bq%3D85%26amp%3Bsig%3DxE4s9zHsfnBZlq3uXalL7w--&hash=d418703e78de40ed9f7e6cfb166f52aa8dc9b575)
Suckers!
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20100322%2Fi%2Fr3234687515.jpg%3Fx%3D400%26amp%3By%3D295%26amp%3Bq%3D85%26amp%3Bsig%3DxE4s9zHsfnBZlq3uXalL7w--&hash=d418703e78de40ed9f7e6cfb166f52aa8dc9b575)
Suckers!
What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20100322%2Fi%2Fr3234687515.jpg%3Fx%3D400%26amp%3By%3D295%26amp%3Bq%3D85%26amp%3Bsig%3DxE4s9zHsfnBZlq3uXalL7w--&hash=d418703e78de40ed9f7e6cfb166f52aa8dc9b575)
Suckers!
What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:
Stereotypical liberal lesbian? :dunno:
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20100322%2Fi%2Fr3234687515.jpg%3Fx%3D400%26amp%3By%3D295%26amp%3Bq%3D85%26amp%3Bsig%3DxE4s9zHsfnBZlq3uXalL7w--&hash=d418703e78de40ed9f7e6cfb166f52aa8dc9b575)
Suckers!
What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:
Stereotypical liberal lesbian? :dunno:
Pelosi's husband.
-
David Letterman said the good thing about the new health care bill is it would cover the Jayhawks "choking".
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Frids%2F20100322%2Fi%2Fr3234687515.jpg%3Fx%3D400%26amp%3By%3D295%26amp%3Bq%3D85%26amp%3Bsig%3DxE4s9zHsfnBZlq3uXalL7w--&hash=d418703e78de40ed9f7e6cfb166f52aa8dc9b575)
Suckers!
What the hell is that thing on the right?!? :surprised:
Stereotypical liberal lesbian? :dunno:
No, the right. Not the middle.
-
David Letterman said the good thing about the new health care bill is it would cover the Jayhawks "choking".
Really?
LOL.
Letterman got his one good joke for the year in.
-
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.
imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.
-
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.
imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.
I was trying to think if there was any presidence pertaining to the federal government, or even state government, mandating that all citizens must buy a service from a private company. I couldn't think of any.
They are also mandating that insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums on health services for policy holders (currently 65%). That sounds like a recipe for disaster considering the health insurance industry profits account for less than 6% of premiums. As a comparison, Apple is at 19% profit.
-
the constitutionality of this bill probably won't be much of a problem. even the mandate. of course we won't have a case until after 2014, so it depends on who is still sitting. Stevens will be out soon, probably at the end of this term, and will be replaced with another similar minded judge, no doubt.
imo it all depends on the interpretation of the commerce clause and (obviously) congresses powers. there very well could be a line connected between the mandate and congresses power to regulate interstate commerce. but again it all depends on what the make-up of the court is at that time.
I was trying to think if there was any presidence pertaining to the federal government, or even state government, mandating that all citizens must buy a service from a private company. I couldn't think of any.
They are also mandating that insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums on health services for policy holders (currently 65%). That sounds like a recipe for disaster considering the health insurance industry profits account for less than 6% of premiums. As a comparison, Apple is at 19% profit.
precedent*
and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.
as far as the premiums discussion, apple won't have the entire country buying their products. percentages are relevant to the size of their pools. just a thought.
i'm not really looking to get involved in this debate one way or the other, because in politics someone always has an answer and its always an answer that proves their point in some way.
the only thing i will say is that i am disappointed in the way the GOP has handled this situation. This bill is extremely similar to a certain presidential candidate's own plan in his own state, and in fact modeled in certain ways after it. They are acting like children, utilizing fear and propagandist diction in order to sway constituents. I'm not saying that the Dem's aren't guilty of their own propaganda, but some of this is just unreal. There are better ways to fry a fish than telling a person that they are doing it wrong and that if they don't do it your way they all will die of aids.
The bill passed because of people who were elected to do so. Maybe it wasn't the only reason they were elected, maybe it wasn't even a reason they were elected, but this is how America works. People line themselves up ideologically with a candidate and hope he serves them to the best of his or her ability. The people who created and passed this bill were our (America) representatives. To say that they did not represent America, like so many in the GOP have said, is to give a majority to a vocal minority.
And this is just an observation, but some of the righties are taking the passing of this bill almost EXACTLY like ku fans after Northern Iowa. (if this is too much of a basketball conversation, mods, please move to appropriate board. tia.)
-
Immunizations are not required, unless you want to go to a public school. I know several families whose kids haven't been immunized, as they homeschool.
-
and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.
thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.
but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.
the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.
thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).
-
and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.
thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.
but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.
the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.
thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).
There is no logic to your logic. No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated." In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created. Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.
AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant. Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
-
There is no logic to your logic.
It's worse than that. He's arguing the legitimacy of a federal mandate by analogizing it to actions of state & local governments. I take it he's a KU law alumnus ....
-
and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.
thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.
but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.
the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.
thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).
There is no logic to your logic. No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated." In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created. Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.
AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant. Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
Love DS... anyone watch Glenn Beck on Tuesday?
-
There is no logic to your logic.
It's worse than that. He's arguing the legitimacy of a federal mandate by analogizing it to actions of state & local governments. I take it he's a KU law alumnus ....
:bait: *
*not in any way affiliated with KU law
also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.
-
and there are plenty of laws that do such. immunizations come to mind right off the bat. granted it is inherently different. i agree. i would also point to car insurance. but there there is a way out. don't drive. there are several other similar governmental regulations that require certain things to be done for the greater economy.
thank you for pointing out what i already alluded to.
but, i'll roll with it. you are pointing to a very small population. around 3%. public education hasn't become ubiquitous but it is fairly close. not to mention if those children who are home schooled want to play a sport of any kind around other children they would be required to get said shots and maybe even a physical.
the pattern remains the same. i understand at the core of it there is still a choice for some people to do home schooling. for most, however that is not an option due to lack of funds, education, personal life, work, etc. it takes a fairly specialized situation to accomplish home schooling properly. so for most families there is no choice.
thats it, i'm done. have fun with whatever worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated through years of intensive porn watching and WWE mimicking, or Zelda playing and porn watching on a Mac (so we cover both sides).
There is no logic to your logic. No argument could ever fit any definition you claim to look for because they are all discounted as "worlds you have created in order to rectify whatever opinion you have formulated." In the end, all you end up getting is the world you have created. Following that path, you could never change your mind on anything your entire life.
AHA! I have figured out the mentality of the satanist...still that of a babbling infant. Would explain the selfishness, impulsivity, and constant whining.
Love DS... anyone watch Glenn Beck on Tuesday?
No
-
The guy who should have been the messiah's running mate, john dingell (so you could have the dingell-barry ticket), wants to "control the people"
http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio-rep-dingell-says-obamacare-will-eventually-control-the-people
Stay blind, useful idiots. :cool:
-
I jumped off the Beck bandwagon ever since he went back on his global warming stance.
-
I jumped off the Beck bandwagon ever since he went back on his global warming stance.
:confused:
-
Guess they should have read the bill before signing it.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.
Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.
Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1 (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1)
-
Guess they should have read the bill before signing it.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.
Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.
Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1 (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_E7CcGnDYNUc%2FSvDk5Dz3QRI%2FAAAAAAAAAck%2FM_ZtxGnABAk%2Fs400%2Fnelson%252Bmuntz.jpg&hash=d4af5c9215102700c6dcc2f75ee6a853d51d97bb)
-
Maybe they should have, i don't know.....READ THE BILL!!!
-
also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.
Congress can and does enact whatever the hell it wants to enact but doing so doesn't make the new laws Constitutional. You seem to have said above that the individual mandate will withstand a Constitutional challenge and that there is precedent for it. No need for a discussion just yet, as a preliminary matter please cite the S.Ct. cases which you believe are such precedent.
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fstatic%2Fmanaged%2Fimg%2FOpinion%2FLarsFossOK.Pelosi.jpg&hash=5eb62b06a84001096d5f549f8a1146003407283f)
-
Now that I think about it, I'm having a sneaking suspicion that this was an intentional omission. Think about it. Now they have to do it "for the children." Then they hammer anyone who opposes it as hating children. Then they can attach a bunch of other special deals and programs into the bill. Typical dem/satanist/alinskyist M.O.
-
also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.
Congress can and does enact whatever the hell it wants to enact but doing so doesn't make the new laws Constitutional. You seem to have said above that the individual mandate will withstand a Constitutional challenge and that there is precedent for it. No need for a discussion just yet, as a preliminary matter please cite the S.Ct. cases which you believe are such precedent.
:foottappingclockwatchingguy:
-
also i was never arguing for or against the mandate, nor was i analogizing the previous governmental requirements in order to help any argument you may think i started. original post was entirely about congresses constitutional right to enact such a mandate. if you want to discuss that I would be more than willing to have some sort of conversation about it.
Congress can and does enact whatever the hell it wants to enact but doing so doesn't make the new laws Constitutional. You seem to have said above that the individual mandate will withstand a Constitutional challenge and that there is precedent for it. No need for a discussion just yet, as a preliminary matter please cite the S.Ct. cases which you believe are such precedent.
:foottappingclockwatchingguy:
really think its an interesting question, and i would love to dedicate time to it, but i have finals in a month. sorry for the build up and no follow through, but i have other things on my mind. and to be honest i'm just a 1L and coming to the end of con law 1, so my discussion will be limited to my knowledge. if you have some insight on the matter i would love to hear it.
-
There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past.
Very, very doubtful.
I'm sure you'll remain pissed (and sexually frustrated) but I don't think people in general will still be. Even by nov. they'll have simmered.
The next election leaves plenty of time to forget.
-
There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past.
Very, very doubtful.
I'm sure you'll remain pissed (and sexually frustrated) but I don't think people in general will still be. Even by nov. they'll have simmered.
The next election leaves plenty of time to forget.
I think there will be plenty of time to see exactly what is in the health bill, and I don't think it will be good for those that voted for it. 7 months is a long time to keep the spin going.
-
Its a different world now. We won't forget.
-
There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past.
Very, very doubtful.
I'm sure you'll remain pissed (and sexually frustrated) but I don't think people in general will still be. Even by nov. they'll have simmered.
The next election leaves plenty of time to forget.
I think there will be plenty of time to see exactly what is in the health bill, and I don't think it will be good for those that voted for it. 7 months is a long time to keep the spin going.
If I remember correctly, its not until 2014 that some of the major implications of the bill even come into play. Most people may not 'see' much of anything for the next several months and its not as if it'll be as in your face as coverage of the Iraq war was. The last thing they'll do is 'spin' when all they need to do is shut their collective mouths.
Obama is counting on the apathy and complacency of the public. I think its a good bet on his part, but you can keep hoping for Scott Brown's to come along.
And Martha Coakley levels of incompetence.
-
There will be an avalanche in the next election that will dwarf all those seen in the past.
Very, very doubtful.
I'm sure you'll remain pissed (and sexually frustrated) but I don't think people in general will still be. Even by nov. they'll have simmered.
The next election leaves plenty of time to forget.
I think there will be plenty of time to see exactly what is in the health bill, and I don't think it will be good for those that voted for it. 7 months is a long time to keep the spin going.
If I remember correctly, its not until 2014 that some of the major implications of the bill even come into play. Most people may not 'see' much of anything for the next several months and its not as if it'll be as in your face as coverage of the Iraq war was. The last thing they'll do is 'spin' when all they need to do is shut their collective mouths.
Obama is counting on the apathy and complacency of the public. I think its a good bet on his part, but you can keep hoping for Scott Brown's to come along.
And Martha Coakley levels of incompetence.
It will be up to Fox News and talk radio to bring out the truth within the bill even though most everything won't be in effect until after the next presidential election. The taxes should get cranked up after this November.
-
Health Care Passing! FML If the American ppl dont want it why the hell cant congress/Obama listen? What happened to "Government of the ppl for the ppl?"
-
http://www.theonion.com/articles/republicans-leukemia-team-up-to-repeal-health-care,17215/
-
http://www.theonion.com/articles/republicans-leukemia-team-up-to-repeal-health-care,17215/
On the other side of the coin, I think staphylococcus aureus is solidly on the left. As more and more people gain access to common prescription medicines, staph infection will become so resistant to antibiotics it will finally be able to take over the world.