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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: mocat on January 18, 2014, 01:38:52 PM
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Good book and even better player and even better human. His smile causes me to smile
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He is wundyful. He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
He does everything and plays joyfully.
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What's the word? . . . Adorable
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I really enjoyed seeing him perform well. I was happy for him.
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
I dunno MIR, I thought Frank was always confused about what Shane's roll should be. Weber seems to understand his game a little more. Or maybe he just gets better with age like a fine wine.
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
I dunno MIR, I thought Frank was always confused about what Shane's roll should be. Weber seems to understand his game a little more. Or maybe he just gets better with age like a fine wine.
Frank didn't know what to do with him because he was a 6'7" point guard in high school who couldn't dribble and we had Jamar Samuels here. JFC, a player gets better as a junior and senior and its a coach effect? Was it a Weber effect when Shane was garbage the first 2 months of the season and the coach was calling him out in post game interviews? You people, sheesh.
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
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The % of K-Staters that believe that oscar is some kind of Shane-Whisperer really astounds me.
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
I dunno MIR, I thought Frank was always confused about what Shane's roll should be. Weber seems to understand his game a little more. Or maybe he just gets better with age like a fine wine.
Frank didn't know what to do with him because he was a 6'7" point guard in high school who couldn't dribble and we had Jamar Samuels here. JFC, a player gets better as a junior and senior and its a coach effect? Was it a Weber effect when Shane was garbage the first 2 months of the season and the coach was calling him out in post game interviews? You people, sheesh.
So you're on board with fine wine theory
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous.
what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
Will is the same as he was. JO was a victim of the system that is benefiting Shane
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JO was a victim of the system that is benefiting Shane
jo was the victim of sitting on the bench. when he was in the game, he was very effective.
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous
That cannot be quantified at all, not even a little bit. That first sentence is something someone says that just affirms what they think and there is no way to rebut the statement. I didn't say anything about every anything, that being said name me 10 players who didn't improve as upperclassmen & I'll even spot you Will. I will also point out to you something that Trim has pointed out several times. Shane spent nearly the entire non con in oscar's doghouse last season and he turned to Shane because he had to. Shane has spent more of the last season and a half on oscar's crap list than he has otherwise.
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I just like to enjoy his play and not worry about who gets the credit
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oscar made Shane better, not sure how this is debatable. Can you imagine if Russell or Judge had hung around for actual player development rather than that drill sergeant hazing bullshit frank did? My god we'd be dominant.
JO made JO sit on the bench because JO was a lazy sack of crap the first half of last season. Not sure how this is debatable.
Do you flopknobs even watch the games???
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All arguments aside, Shane always plays like a beast against coal-aggie. Maybe he harbors some ill will towards them, saw them burn a couch he liked once? :dunno:
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I imagine opposing team fans hate Shane...that smile!!!
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oscar made Shane better, not sure how this is debatable. Can you imagine if Russell or Judge had hung around for actual player development rather than that drill sergeant hazing bullshit frank did? My god we'd be dominant.
JO made JO sit on the bench because JO was a lazy sack of crap the first half of last season. Not sure how this is debatable.
Do you flopknobs even watch the games???
:thumbs:
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oscar made Shane better, not sure how this is debatable. Can you imagine if Russell or Judge had hung around for actual player development rather than that drill sergeant hazing bullshit frank did? My god we'd be dominant.
JO made JO sit on the bench because JO was a lazy sack of crap the first half of last season. Not sure how this is debatable.
Do you flopknobs even watch the games???
First off, they'd both be out of eligibility. Secondly, Nick Russell is basically Will Spradling this year with more turnovers, and rough ridin' Larry Brown is his coach. Wally Judge is having a decent year, but he'd still be the third most productive player down low for us. Peddle that bullshit somewhere else FSD. Why can't you just be happy that oscar is doing well and Frank is doing poorly? You have to come up with asinine arguments to try and up the ante.
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
I dunno MIR, I thought Frank was always confused about what Shane's roll should be. Weber seems to understand his game a little more. Or maybe he just gets better with age like a fine wine.
Frank didn't know what to do with him because he was a 6'7" point guard in high school who couldn't dribble and we had Jamar Samuels here. JFC, a player gets better as a junior and senior and its a coach effect? Was it a Weber effect when Shane was garbage the first 2 months of the season and the coach was calling him out in post game interviews? You people, sheesh.
"You people"?
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous
That cannot be quantified at all, not even a little bit. That first sentence is something someone says that just affirms what they think and there is no way to rebut the statement. I didn't say anything about every anything, that being said name me 10 players who didn't improve as upperclassmen & I'll even spot you Will. I will also point out to you something that Trim has pointed out several times. Shane spent nearly the entire non con in oscar's doghouse last season and he turned to Shane because he had to. Shane has spent more of the last season and a half on oscar's crap list than he has otherwise.
Yes, if fragile nino doesn't crash land in seattle, shane's still on the bench.
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A much higher percentage of his attempts under oscar are three point attempts. Not surprising.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/kansas-state/shane-southwell
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Shane is making shots now which makes him go from a nice player to potential all league. He does everything really well, but now that his 3PT shooting is up over 30% (over 40% in Big 12 games) he's a star.
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Playing Shane at the 4 has been really good for him. (And the team).
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous
That cannot be quantified at all, not even a little bit. That first sentence is something someone says that just affirms what they think and there is no way to rebut the statement. I didn't say anything about every anything, that being said name me 10 players who didn't improve as upperclassmen & I'll even spot you Will. I will also point out to you something that Trim has pointed out several times. Shane spent nearly the entire non con in oscar's doghouse last season and he turned to Shane because he had to. Shane has spent more of the last season and a half on oscar's crap list than he has otherwise.
There is not a place you can go to that will quantify the typical player growth between years, I'll give you that. But between his sophomore and junior seasons his eFG% went up 15% - which is absurd. I think this is because, as Rusty hinted at, he has benefited by playing the 4 and having matchups against bigger guys who struggle to get out and challenge the 3 pointer.
I wouldn't call it oscar's coaching because he didn't just make Shane that much better, he put him in better spots to succeed. At the same time, I think the system also hurt players like JO and caused undersized bigs like Gip to struggle at times last season.
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I think it's fair to say JO struggled with the transition and it took he and oscar more than half the season to figure it out. I don't really blame either one, that happens with coaching changes.
In Gipson's case, his struggles are rare and if anything he is flourishing in oscar's system this year. His main problems are when he gets in foul trouble.
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous
That cannot be quantified at all, not even a little bit. That first sentence is something someone says that just affirms what they think and there is no way to rebut the statement. I didn't say anything about every anything, that being said name me 10 players who didn't improve as upperclassmen & I'll even spot you Will. I will also point out to you something that Trim has pointed out several times. Shane spent nearly the entire non con in oscar's doghouse last season and he turned to Shane because he had to. Shane has spent more of the last season and a half on oscar's crap list than he has otherwise.
There is not a place you can go to that will quantify the typical player growth between years, I'll give you that. But between his sophomore and junior seasons his eFG% went up 15% - which is absurd. I think this is because, as Rusty hinted at, he has benefited by playing the 4 and having matchups against bigger guys who struggle to get out and challenge the 3 pointer.
I wouldn't call it oscar's coaching because he didn't just make Shane that much better, he put him in better spots to succeed. At the same time, I think the system also hurt players like JO and caused undersized bigs like Gip to struggle at times last season.
Right as I mentioned Shane moving to the 4 had as much to do with Jamar graduating than anything else. Its reasonable to assume that he would have played the 4 no matter who the coach was because that is really the only position he would have seen the floor at. I'm not certain why people think oscar playing that line up last year was a stroke of genius, did he have any other choice?
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I think the change in Shane from Soph to Junior is a lot more than your average jump. I think it is more the system benefiting Shane's skill set than just coaching, but to imply that it is the jump every sophomore makes is ridiculous
That cannot be quantified at all, not even a little bit. That first sentence is something someone says that just affirms what they think and there is no way to rebut the statement. I didn't say anything about every anything, that being said name me 10 players who didn't improve as upperclassmen & I'll even spot you Will. I will also point out to you something that Trim has pointed out several times. Shane spent nearly the entire non con in oscar's doghouse last season and he turned to Shane because he had to. Shane has spent more of the last season and a half on oscar's crap list than he has otherwise.
There is not a place you can go to that will quantify the typical player growth between years, I'll give you that. But between his sophomore and junior seasons his eFG% went up 15% - which is absurd. I think this is because, as Rusty hinted at, he has benefited by playing the 4 and having matchups against bigger guys who struggle to get out and challenge the 3 pointer.
I wouldn't call it oscar's coaching because he didn't just make Shane that much better, he put him in better spots to succeed. At the same time, I think the system also hurt players like JO and caused undersized bigs like Gip to struggle at times last season.
Right as I mentioned Shane moving to the 4 had as much to do with Jamar graduating than anything else. Its reasonable to assume that he would have played the 4 no matter who the coach was because that is really the only position he would have seen the floor at. I'm not certain why people think oscar playing that line up last year was a stroke of genius, did he have any other choice?
I'm not saying its a stroke of genius or even that it helped the team, though I think it probably did, just that it helped Shane. His other choice would've been utilizing JO and having Gip split time between the 4 and 5.
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Its highly unlikely Frank would've gone small, I don't think it fits his system. He would've played Gip, JO, and Diaz along with one of those bigs he was recruiting before he left. Shane would've been relegated to backing up Rod last year and occasionally playing the 2.
Nobody is saying oscar is a genius for going small, but he has to get some credit for making it work, especially on defense and rebounding at a pretty good level.
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He really has improved greatly. Weber effect???
idiot
thanks for the kind word
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Its highly unlikely Frank would've gone small, I don't think it fits his system. He would've played Gip, JO, and Diaz along with one of those bigs he was recruiting before he left. Shane would've been relegated to backing up Rod last year and occasionally playing the 2.
Nobody is saying oscar is a genius for going small, but he has to get some credit for making it work, especially on defense and rebounding at a pretty good level.
Why do people keep disregarding that the previous power forward was skinny and 6'7"? The changing narrative is irritating. People, myself included, got mad that Frank refused to play JO and Diaz together. Man its like we didn't spend 3 years complaining about Energy and Victor getting better than decent minutes.
YES, Weber played Shane at the 4 and Frank didn't. Weber had the luxury of seeing that Shane had two previous seasons to try to play the position he was recruited to play. And for the seemingly millionth time oscar put Shane at the 4 out of complete necessity, he was buried on Weber's bench as a guard. The three games before that Gonzaga game he was Rodney's backup and he had 11 minutes against Michigan and 2 DNPs. He made it work because of Shane's skill, no one thought going small would work in conference play because every single person thought of Shane as a guard, no one knew he would be a better passing but worse rebounding Jamar.
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Its highly unlikely Frank would've gone small, I don't think it fits his system. He would've played Gip, JO, and Diaz along with one of those bigs he was recruiting before he left. Shane would've been relegated to backing up Rod last year and occasionally playing the 2.
Nobody is saying oscar is a genius for going small, but he has to get some credit for making it work, especially on defense and rebounding at a pretty good level.
Why do people keep disregarding that the previous power forward was skinny and 6'7"? The changing narrative is irritating. People, myself included, got mad that Frank refused to play JO and Diaz together. Man its like we didn't spend 3 years complaining about Energy and Victor getting better than decent minutes.
YES, Weber played Shane at the 4 and Frank didn't. Weber had the luxury of seeing that Shane had two previous seasons to try to play the position he was recruited to play. And for the seemingly millionth time oscar put Shane at the 4 out of complete necessity, he was buried on Weber's bench as a guard. The three games before that Gonzaga game he was Rodney's backup and he had 11 minutes against Michigan and 2 DNPs. He made it work because of Shane's skill, no one thought going small would work in conference play because every single person thought of Shane as a guard, no one knew he would be a better passing but worse rebounding Jamar.
I have a hard time comparing Shane and Jamar. Regardless of their sizes, Jamar always played like a power forward and Shane always played like a guard.
And I'm well aware of how Shane started the season and when oscar went small.
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Frank wanted Bangers down low. oscar wants Sharpshooters at every position. Shane's a Sharpshooter, but not a Banger.
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Shane's career numbers show a natural progression, not some kind of wild jump. Interestingly enough, his block and rebounding tempo free numbers regress his junior season from his freshman season. I won't attempt to use the block & rebounding numbers to prove a point about his discovery as a "big" because I think it is just a statistical anomaly.
Anyhow if you are a numbers person, strip everything else away, his numbers don't indicate a change in position or system, just an increase in playing time and what would be considered normal, possibly slightly better than normal, skill development.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/roster_player/shane-southwell?per_game=1&per_40=1&tempo_neutral=1&totals=1&game_type=1&chart1=points_avg&chart2=&chart3=
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Frank wanted Bangers down low. oscar wants Sharpshooters at every position. Shane's a Sharpshooter, but not a Banger.
That's fair, its an oversimplification like my Jamar comparo was, I don't consider Jamar a banger or Shane a sharpshooter, but that is a pretty fair argument against Frank playing Shane good minutes his junior year.
Strangely enough if Frank would have stayed here I think Shane would have gotten more minutes but it would have been minutes vacated by the departure of Will.
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Shane's career numbers show a natural progression, not some kind of wild jump. Interestingly enough, his block and rebounding tempo free numbers regress his junior season from his freshman season. I won't attempt to use the block & rebounding numbers to prove a point about his discovery as a "big" because I think it is just a statistical anomaly.
Anyhow if you are a numbers person, strip everything else away, his numbers don't indicate a change in position or system, just an increase in playing time and what would be considered normal, possibly slightly better than normal, skill development.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/roster_player/shane-southwell?per_game=1&per_40=1&tempo_neutral=1&totals=1&game_type=1&chart1=points_avg&chart2=&chart3=
There is big change/progression in Shane's game in 3PT shooting and the percentage of points he scores from 3 compared to from 2. I don't think that is some byproduct of playing time and a large factor in that was the change in system and the type of shots oscar's system generates compared to Frank's. That's not a knock on either system, I think Shane's game fits oscar better than it fit Frank.
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Frank wanted Bangers down low. oscar wants Sharpshooters at every position. Shane's a Sharpshooter, but not a Banger.
That's fair, its an oversimplification like my Jamar comparo was, I don't consider Jamar a banger or Shane a sharpshooter, but that is a pretty fair argument against Frank playing Shane good minutes his junior year.
Strangely enough if Frank would have stayed here I think Shane would have gotten more minutes but it would have been minutes vacated by the departure of Will.
While certainly Will was first out the door if Frank stayed, I would not have been surprised to see Shane far behind. Of all the wild rumors, I think those two were most likely to go, but that's just my speculation. I never thought Shane fit well with Frank.
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Sophomore Shane averaged 2.5 points and 2.1 rebounds. Junior Shane was honorable mention all Big 12.
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Sophomore Shane averaged 2.5 points and 2.1 rebounds. Junior Shane was honorable mention all Big 12.
chalk one up for old-fashioned, regular stats.
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Sophomore Shane averaged 2.5 points and 2.1 rebounds. Junior Shane was honorable mention all Big 12.
Natural progression.
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Guys, JO didn't play early last year because he was too winded and was a complete clusterfuck when he wasn't.
Shane didn't play well under frank because frank screamed at him every time he shot and benched him every time he got called for a foul.
Clearly the variable for Shane's natural progression was weber, while the variable for JOs regression was JO. When JO bought in he was very effective and got minutes.
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Guise,
I dunno, but I think that playing on a team that actually has a semblance of an offense under Weber (under Frank the offense was essentially was someone throw it up there and let's get about 3 offensive rebounds and hopefully one of the follow-ups goes in....) has made Shane look better. And, as Shane and the team has become more comfortable with the offense and found their roles in it, their stats have improved.
Just sayin'.
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Guise,
I dunno, but I think that playing on a team that actually has a semblance of an offense under Weber (under Frank the offense was essentially was someone throw it up there and let's get about 3 offensive rebounds and hopefully one of the follow-ups goes in....) has made Shane look better. And, as Shane and the team has become more comfortable with the offense and found their roles in it, their stats have improved.
Just sayin'.
I like you big sam, don't do this it won't end well
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg17%2F8413%2Fr95w.png&hash=e64b9948c46ee7ebea5cc8827133c4d14d53dd29)
Some of Shane is normal progression and some is the change in system. He's always been good at a variety of things, but the shot selection and 3PT shooting is definitely a product of the system change IMHO. I think the TO% improvement is a factor of the system as well.
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For the record, I'm not on team "natural progression."
It's pretty obvious, stats notwithstanding, that Shane's game has improved and/or his strengths have been better utilized under this system/coach.
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oscar's love for form shooting drills has a lot to do with Shane's progression. I think most of Shane's progression was natural, I don't think Frank and Shane were a good match thus stunting Shane's growth.
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Why does it matter what made him play better? Just be happy the he is.
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Why does it matter what made him play better? Just be happy the he is.
Yeah, who cares whether our basketball coach is making our players better?
I mean, how could that ever be worth discussing in a basketball sports blog?
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
I believe that maybe Frank ruined Sprads. For whatever reason he (Will) has not progressed from the early part Freshman year as I anticipated.
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
I believe that maybe Frank ruined Sprads. For whatever reason he (Will) has not progressed from the early part Freshman year as I anticipated.
So Frank is blamed for regression and oscar is lauded for progression. Got it.
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
I believe that maybe Frank ruined Sprads. For whatever reason he (Will) has not progressed from the early part Freshman year as I anticipated.
Will has had two years to progress under two different coaches. It is Will's fault if he did not get better.
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
I believe that maybe Frank ruined Sprads. For whatever reason he (Will) has not progressed from the early part Freshman year as I anticipated.
Will has had two years to progress under two different coaches. It is Will's fault if he did not get better.
Will has just had an unspectacular career and I think people are disappointed he never became a great shooter. He does several things decently and I will give him credit for becoming a much better rebounding guard as a SR as well as never turning the ball over. Hopefully he has a stretch here where he hits 40% of his 3s because he's had a stretch like that nearly every year of his career, he just hasn't sustained it for a season. Its likely he'll end up at 34-35% from 3 on the year.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/kansas-state/will-spradling
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg191%2F8123%2F5v0c.png&hash=050abd380525f47fe2ece5b62e589c21c189fb06)
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Definitely the shooter thing. Showed a lot of promise as a Frosh and then nothing.
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Why does it matter what made him play better? Just be happy the he is.
Yeah, who cares whether our basketball coach is making our players better?
I mean, how could that ever be worth discussing in a basketball sports blog?
JFC :facepalm:
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Why does it matter what made him play better? Just be happy the he is.
Yeah, who cares whether our basketball coach is making our players better?
I mean, how could that ever be worth discussing in a basketball sports blog?
JFC :facepalm:
please elaborate. TIA
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Lucky some really smart guy has already gone over this player development stuff for us.
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651 (http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651)
Btw, This is a super interesting article.
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what was the weber effect on JO? Will?
I believe that maybe Frank ruined Sprads. For whatever reason he (Will) has not progressed from the early part Freshman year as I anticipated.
So Frank is blamed for regression and oscar is lauded for progression. Got it.
My intent was not to BASH Frank or GLORIFY oscar (there certainly has been enough that in the last two years on this board!). What I was attempting to say was that some people responded to Franks management style, such as Jacob Pullen, while it appears to me others like Will Spradling it affected negatively, as evidence by Wills rumored threat of mutiny at the end of the 2012 season. For whatever reason it does not appear to me that Will has progressed. He has appeared to be tight until the last two games, lets hope that this new Will continues because his help as the Cats work towards another BIG XII Championship would be significant!
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Lucky some really smart guy has already gone over this player development stuff for us.
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651 (http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651)
Btw, This is a super interesting article.
That was really good.
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Why is it that no one thinks Shane could make an NBA roster? 6'6", good shot, could definitely play SG in the NBA, probably never leave the D-league. I know his handles aren't good but I figured he had enough other skills and good body to make up for it. Am I alone in this?
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Lucky some really smart guy has already gone over this player development stuff for us.
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651 (http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651)
Btw, This is a super interesting article.
really interesting.
Little bit off on his prediction that "The challenge at South Carolina won’t be winning, but to reach new goals." It might be a few more years until Martin has a season that's as good as his worst year at KSU.
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Why is it that no one thinks Shane could make an NBA roster? 6'6", good shot, could definitely play SG in the NBA, probably never leave the D-league. I know his handles aren't good but I figured he had enough other skills and good body to make up for it. Am I alone in this?
because everybody in the NBA has a good shot. IMO, he's a good college player that doesn't have the handles or explosion to play in the NBA. I hope he makes a nice living in Europe.
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Definitely the shooter thing. Showed a lot of promise as a Frosh and then nothing.
It bothers me a whole lot more when Will passes up wide open shots than it does that he doesn't make a high percentage. Confidence is very important, and he clearly needs more.
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Why is it that no one thinks Shane could make an NBA roster? 6'6", good shot, could definitely play SG in the NBA, probably never leave the D-league. I know his handles aren't good but I figured he had enough other skills and good body to make up for it. Am I alone in this?
he has the right intangibles he just doesn't do anything particularly great.
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Why is it that no one thinks Shane could make an NBA roster? 6'6", good shot, could definitely play SG in the NBA, probably never leave the D-league. I know his handles aren't good but I figured he had enough other skills and good body to make up for it. Am I alone in this?
he's too slow, weak, and unable to create his own shot. NBA 2's would eat him alive.
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Lucky some really smart guy has already gone over this player development stuff for us.
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651 (http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651)
Btw, This is a super interesting article.
That was really good.
If so many players struggle with his “jump-shooting” offense, is it the right offense? Or like John Calipari, should oscar Weber re-invent his offense to better match the type of personnel he typically manages to recruit?
It's been noted this has happened this year, correct? Much more screening the ball? Our FT rate hasn't been an issue this year as well.
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Lucky some really smart guy has already gone over this player development stuff for us.
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651 (http://basketball.realgm.com/article/220651)
Btw, This is a super interesting article.
That was really good.
If so many players struggle with his “jump-shooting” offense, is it the right offense? Or like John Calipari, should oscar Weber re-invent his offense to better match the type of personnel he typically manages to recruit?
It's been noted this has happened this year, correct? Much more screening the ball? Our FT rate hasn't been an issue this year as well.
Yep and Weber appears to be handling freshmen better! small sample size tho.
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https://vine.co/v/MBWq01A5K2j
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https://vine.co/v/MBWq01A5K2j
I just watched that loop 20 times in a row and I can't stop smiling. That is easily the most adorable thing that I have seen this week, maybe in all of 2014.
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https://vine.co/v/MBWq01A5K2j
holy crap, that's incredible. Now, do one where he hit that 3 in the WVU 2nd half and then danced back down the court smiling.
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I blame oscar
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I credit Frank
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That was so JYC
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Should have killed more time
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^absolutely not. taking it in transition was the right call
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^absolutely not. taking it in transition was the right call
Yeah, they were caught in scramble defense, it was the right move.
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^absolutely not. taking it in transition was the right call
Yeah, they were caught in scramble defense, it was the right move.
That was sarcasm dal9. However, anyone that loved shane's last shot is a revisionist....
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^absolutely not. taking it in transition was the right call
Yeah, they were caught in scramble defense, it was the right move.
That was sarcasm dal9. However, anyone that loved shane's last shot is a revisionist....
When I saw what he was about to do, I was screaming at the TV, telling Shane that I was ready to fight him irl. Then it went in and I thought he was the greatest guy ever.
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Why is he so bad defensively?
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he plays on-ball D like i do at my gym.
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I mean he hits his shots sometimes and is a good overall passer, but I think overall, we'll probably be better off without him because of how very bad he is at defense.
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I mean he hits his shots sometimes and is a good overall passer, but I think overall, we'll probably be better off without him because of how very bad he is at defense.
This is an example of a dumb opinion.
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I mean he hits his shots sometimes and is a good overall passer, but I think overall, we'll probably be better off without him because of how very bad he is at defense.
This is an example of a dumb opinion.
What does he do well defensively? He's pretty good offensively, but he's very, very bad at defense. He was a complete stud last year and the last couple games before texas, but is still not good defensively.
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For one, he leads our team in blocks. He isn't a great defender, but we most certainly wouldn't be better off without him.
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For one, he leads our team in blocks. He isn't a great defender, but we most certainly wouldn't be better off without him.
Yeah that was too far.
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rough ridin' Shane. Killed us in 2 straight games now.
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That's Stretch of ClankOShane was a killer.
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Total inability to get Gipson involved offensively killed us. To the degree Shane contributed to that, he killed us.
Absence of coaching down the stretch played a significant role. Last two minutes, Cats never got the shot they wanted. oscar sits on his hands with 31 seconds to go, Cats with ball down by 4. We get nothing.
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Did Nigel play today? Is he a candidate for a transfer. Not likely he'll ever start with Thomas in the same class. A lot of good basketball schools near D.C.
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Did Nigel play today? Is he a candidate for a transfer. Not likely he'll ever start with Thomas in the same class. A lot of good basketball schools near D.C.
Why do people continue to forget that we have a senior guard that plays 30 minutes a game?
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jackstack :facepalm:
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Who forgot? I just see Nigel's situation as much like that of Fred Brown's. No reason to stay here and never start a game in his career, especially when a year of maturity would do him a world of good.
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Did Nigel play today? Is he a candidate for a transfer. Not likely he'll ever start with Thomas in the same class. A lot of good basketball schools near D.C.
Why do people continue to forget that we have a senior guard that plays 30 minutes a game?
People don't think completely rationally. It's easier to remember Frankings and notice trend of transfers in NCAAb than pay attention to natural roster turnover. Nigel has plenty of minutes waiting for him.
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jackstack :facepalm:
Yeah we should all delude ourselves into thinking Shane is a great player.
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Where did you see the adjective "great" thrown around. Quit being a dumbass.
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Yrlthor=nicname link=topic=30881.msg1027131#msg1027131 date=1390685651]
Did Nigel play today? Is he a candidate for a transfer. Not likely he'll ever start with Thomas in the same class. A lot of good basketball schools near D.C.
Why do people continue to forget that we have a senior guard that plays 30 minutes a game?
People don't think completely rationally. It's easier to remember Frankings and notice trend of transfers in NCAAb than pay attention to natural roster turnover. Nigel has plenty of minutes waiting for him.
[/quote]I for one would love to have players who could develop Instead of being pressed into sevice because of Attrition. Of course we should be willing to old Yeller a senior if we have better options or players with more upside.
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Who forgot? I just see Nigel's situation as much like that of Fred Brown's. No reason to stay here and never start a game in his career, especially when a year of maturity would do him a world of good.
He was playing pickup games at the rec thursday night, with no other players there. Seems like a telltale sign of planning to move on. Maybe it's just me.
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thought southie was good. the whole team played well.
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I mean he hits his shots sometimes and is a good overall passer, but I think overall, we'll probably be better off without him because of how very bad he is at defense.
Clark for OU was invisible against us. Shane guarded him most of the game. Holmes did little before his game winning 3. Shane was guarding him a lot. He is not a lock down defender but I think he does a decent job most games trying to guard other team's 4
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He never should be in a position where he is the guy we're counting on to get baskets late in a game.
I love Shane.
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Shane attacks the basket late in games and generally good things (scores or fouls) have happened. I have no problem with what he does. I trust the aggressive approach more than trying to get a shot out of oscar's offense on a quick possession.
PS - Did not see ISU game today.
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thought southie was good. the whole team played well.
Really? I thought everyone was mediocre at best.
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I thought everyone was mediocre at best.
i was pretty impressed that they came back from double digits twice.
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https://vine.co/v/MuaFu0M5iEq
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I thought everyone was mediocre at best.
i was pretty impressed that they came back from double digits twice.
They played very hard and resilient but the execution on both ends was poor.
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They played very hard and resilient but the execution on both ends was poor.
isu has good players too.
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They played very hard and resilient but the execution on both ends was poor.
isu has good players too.
They do?
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i think so.
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Didn't watch, why were people mean to Shane on twitter?
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Didn't watch, why were people mean to Shane on twitter?
Was they Iowa State fans? He talked a lot of stuff to fans behind the bench when the game was over, I'd call it an incident it was on camera at the very end of the broadcast. I suppose the mean tweeters could have been holier-than-thou tucks too.
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Didn't watch, why were people mean to Shane on twitter?
Was they Iowa State fans? He talked a lot of stuff to fans behind the bench when the game was over, I'd call it an incident it was on camera at the very end of the broadcast. I suppose the mean tweeters could have been holier-than-thou tucks too.
https://vine.co/v/MuaFu0M5iEq
Pretty sure mich is talking about the latter though.
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Didn't watch, why were people mean to Shane on twitter?
Was they Iowa State fans? He talked a lot of stuff to fans behind the bench when the game was over, I'd call it an incident it was on camera at the very end of the broadcast. I suppose the mean tweeters could have been holier-than-thou tucks too.
Kelly in Vegas thought Riley Gates was a little hard on Shane. Mike T or something also thought he sucked iirc.
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Didn't watch, why were people mean to Shane on twitter?
Was they Iowa State fans? He talked a lot of stuff to fans behind the bench when the game was over, I'd call it an incident it was on camera at the very end of the broadcast. I suppose the mean tweeters could have been holier-than-thou tucks too.
Interesting, the changing view of being critical on K-State athletes these guys have
Kelly in Vegas thought Riley Gates was a little hard on Shane. Mike T or something also thought he sucked iirc.
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def remember some tuckfano
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And tuckfano got mad at young riley for including shane's @. Riley deleted the @ and they continued talking bad about shane. Then lopakman policed the situation well.
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DJamer Wally was, as he put it, singling out Shane as well (no @).
I mean, as much as you can "single out" somebody when talking bad about two guys, including Foster.
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When in the game was the Shane to Foster pass/turnover that everyone's mad about? I must've missed it. Was probably preoccupied in chat talking scheme w/Tobias.
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so, uh, he has been awful lately.
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Shane in the clutch...
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Someone make a gif of Shane after Westicles's block. :love:
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Someone make a gif of Shane after Westicles's block. :love:
Dear Hou Cat,
:excited:
Thanks,
Dual Ju
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So satisfying to see our freshmen step up and win a game while Shane sat on the bench cracking jokes with the walk-ons.
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:lol:
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/this-is-some-quality-side-eying-1520409829?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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I love Shane.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F19fbn3tmduznsgif%2Fku-xlarge.gif&hash=cc1dca9af742cc218c10d2e0c0d13d4650e6f330)
:love:
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:love:
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this should be here too just in case
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l6FFGB8ChFw/UOj1pHjuIyI/AAAAAAAABeQ/P3h1ZLxX5Bk/s355/GipShaneMuscle355.gif)
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Guys why does Shane suck lately? I feel like if he had been regular Shane we win by double digits.
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Guys why does Shane suck lately? I feel like if he had been regular Shane we win by double digits.
His scoring is down, but he's doing quite a few other things (boarding, assists) well. His foul issues last night didn't help, but that's rare he actual fouls the least of anyone on the team, its just easy to remember when he gets in foul trouble.
Also, the 2 shots he hit to start the 2nd half were huge.
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Guys why does Shane suck lately? I feel like if he had been regular Shane we win by double digits.
His scoring is down, but he's doing quite a few other things (boarding, assists) well. His foul issues last night didn't help, but that's rare he actual fouls the least of anyone on the team, its just easy to remember when he gets in foul trouble.
Also, the 2 shots he hit to start the 2nd half were huge.
That assist to Gip on the dunk too :love: :love: :love:
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this should be here too just in case
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l6FFGB8ChFw/UOj1pHjuIyI/AAAAAAAABeQ/P3h1ZLxX5Bk/s355/GipShaneMuscle355.gif)
:lol:
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Shane is asked to do a lot defensively, especially against bigger teams. He looked gimpy last night. Still, he made some phenomenal plays last night. The two big buckets early in the 2nd and the drop off to Gip was a thing of beauty.
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Shane is asked to do a lot defensively, especially against bigger teams. He looked gimpy last night. Still, he made some phenomenal plays last night. The two big buckets early in the 2nd and the drop off to Gip was a thing of beauty.
This is a great point, he's often asked to guard bigs and against teams like KU that is a tough match-up. He does a really good job considering, plus he is a great passer (well, besides that one) and rebounder.
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Shane was good because he played smart. I like smart playin Shane.
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Crunch time Shane tho :sdeek:
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Crunch time Shane tho :sdeek:
Would've been right up there with the Pasco Fiasco had we lost.
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Crunch time Shane tho :sdeek:
Would've been right up there with the Pasco Fiasco had we lost.
But we didn't lose! :D
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thought he was good. that gif is incredible, i have no idea what he is doing or reacting to. i don't think it was iwu's play.
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It looks like Brooks farted or said something creepy
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F19fbn3tmduznsgif%2Fku-xlarge.gif&hash=cc1dca9af742cc218c10d2e0c0d13d4650e6f330)
:love:
Brooks is so Joyful.
Chester has his warrior face on.
Chester is the BEST!
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It looks like Brooks farted or said something creepy
:lol:
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started 4-4 tonight :ksu:
ended 4-12 :frown:
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Cats win
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How was his attitude?
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Extremely level for how baller he played. Especially in the first half.
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How was his attitude?
Pretty shitty in the 2nd half. When he allowed a Kane 3 and turned around and walked down the court with no hustle I was pretty pissed. Like I said before, when he isn't playing well and making shots, he doesn't hustle and pouts.
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How was his attitude?
Pretty shitty in the 2nd half. When he allowed a Kane 3 and turned around and walked down the court with no hustle I was pretty pissed. Like I said before, when he isn't playing well and making shots, he doesn't hustle and pouts.
I thought Shane was locked in from the tip. Was actually on bench watching game and cheering. Then he finds his stroke. Very good sign for a march run. We are going to win the big 12 tourney.
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How was his attitude?
Pretty shitty in the 2nd half. When he allowed a Kane 3 and turned around and walked down the court with no hustle I was pretty pissed. Like I said before, when he isn't playing well and making shots, he doesn't hustle and pouts.
I thought Shane was locked in from the tip. Was actually on bench watching game and cheering. Then he finds his stroke. Very good sign for a march run. We are going to win the big 12 tourney.
We are gonna win 'em all.
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+/-
For all conference games:
Entire Team: +28
Will: +54
Shane: +46
Gip: +34
Wundy: +27
DJamer : +20
Omari: +13
Marcus: +9
Nigel: +6
Jevon: -17
Nino: -26
Last 5 games:
Entire Team: -4
Southwell: +14
Nigel: +9
DJamer: +7
Gip: +2
Wundy: +1
Marcus: -4
Omari: -5
Jevon: -5
Will: -11
Nino: -24
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Nino's numbers show why +/- is flawed for college basketball. JMHO.
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Nino's numbers show why +/- is flawed for college basketball. JMHO.
or do +/- numbers show why Nino is flawed for college basketball?
(I know +/- is pretty stupid fwiw)
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It matters who you are on the floor with. Will has probably never been on the floor with Jevon at all. Marcus spends a great deal of time on the floor with Jevon.
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Stats are always flawed. Never tell the full story
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Stats are always flawed. Never tell the full story
And some stats are a lot worse than others. (The stats in question know who I'm taking about. )
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It matters who you are on the floor with
the person you are least likely to be on the floor with plays your position. pretty good argument for +/- you are making there.
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It matters who you are on the floor with
the person you are least likely to be on the floor with plays your position. pretty good argument for +/- you are making there.
Then maybe you should list them as position groupings. My argument is that you can't look at Will and Marcus and say Will is better because of +/- stats.
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It matters who you are on the floor with
the person you are least likely to be on the floor with plays your position. pretty good argument for +/- you are making there.
Then maybe you should list them as position groupings. My argument is that you can't look at Will and Marcus and say Will is better because of +/- stats.
I'm assuming most people on this site know who plays what position. I doubt anyone is doing that.
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the +/- stats don't look hugely different than what might have been expected. they seem intuitively reasonably accurate. williams' numbers are a surprise, but one outlier is hardly damning.
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so nino is about as good as andrew wiggins?
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I don't think +/- is more or less flawed in CBB than the NBA. But I do think this is better and wish someone would do it for CBB:
http://www.82games.com/1314/ROLRTG8.HTM
kenpom is kind of starting that by tracking the most frequent lineups - I wish he'd go all the way and add stats to those lineups. Can't be too hard for him since he already tracks the lineups.
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I don't think +/- is more or less flawed in CBB than the NBA. But I do think this is better and wish someone would do it for CBB:
http://www.82games.com/1314/ROLRTG8.HTM
kenpom is kind of starting that by tracking the most frequent lineups - I wish he'd go all the way and add stats to those lineups. Can't be too hard for him since he already tracks the lineups.
The +/- isn't a valued stat IMO. Will leads the team in that stat this year. He led the team by a good margain last year before the chest injury. Does that meen that Will was better than Rodney/Angel or that NuWill is better than Foster. NO. But I think it does show that Will is valuable.
The small groups on the floor is what I look a lot in games. With foul trouble on Saturday, we had the 2 frosh PGs and Omari in together late in the 1st half. And I was like Ooooooh Noooooo. I also tend to get a little nervous when we only have 1 true shooter on the court. Now Shane before Saturday had struggled shooting the ball.... but I prefer having 2 of the 3 (Foster Will or Shane) on the court. And if we only have 1, then I always hope Gip is in there to give us another player we can run the offense through if needed.
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Proves Niño sucks at defense, rotations and close outs. Also, proves that will is great at help defense and helps the offense turn over.
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I think "proves" is a strong word.
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I think "proves" is a strong word.
Really, really strong. Especially with a very subjective stat.
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If people want to say lots of bad things about Shane for that last stretch I'm fine with it. Awful.
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:curse:
Those 3 possession resulted in 7 okie state points
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If people want to say lots of bad things about Shane for that last stretch I'm fine with it. Awful.
Senior leader. Failed to rotate on Forte too.
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It's just too bad that Nino is his backup because Nino is a bad defender.
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Man, Shane's been a hot pile of garbage tonight, amirite fellas? Oh well.
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1 of 15 since going 4-4 vs ISU.
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He has been awful since the WVU home game.
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1 of 15 since going 4-4 vs ISU.
0-9 on 2pt shots.... how many of those shots inside 7 feet or layups. Exactly
His back to back TOs that turned into 4 pts (after we got the lead down to 36 32) ..... I was like :shakesfist:
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Just needs an attitude adjustment
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Hard for anyone to defend Shane's play anymore. He's playing like a mongoloid and without him being at least serviceable we're not gonna beat anyone decent.
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If you look up Mongoloid basketball player in the dictionary there's a picture of Shane Southwell.
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It's just too bad that Nino is his backup because Nino is a bad defender.
Whatever idiot. Nino is rim defender #1 one won!
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Bench him at this point. He does nothing to help us win.
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Nino may be somewhat poor on D, but I do love his hard fouls when someone is about to get an easy transition layup though.
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Nino may be somewhat poor on D, but I do love his hard fouls when someone is about to get an easy transition layup though.
clean blocks both times, imo
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Nino may be somewhat poor on D, but I do love his hard fouls when someone is about to get an easy transition layup though.
clean blocks both times, imo
The first time was clean until he hit his head a bit, so it was the right call. Only saw the second one once.
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Nino may be somewhat poor on D, but I do love his hard fouls when someone is about to get an easy transition layup though.
clean blocks both times, imo
The first time was clean until he hit his head a bit, so it was the right call. Only saw the second one once.
Yeah, the blocks are clean, insofar as he gets all ball. But, not clean because he body tackles the player into the 2nd row.
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Shane's just having a bad stretch, he should continue to play 20-25 a game.
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Shane's just having a bad stretch, he should continue to play 20-25 a game.
Nah
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Shane's just having a bad stretch, he should continue to play 20-25 a game.
serious question, when was his last quality game? because, aside from his short stretch of 3s against ISU, I don't think he's scored more than 5 points since @ ISU on 1/25.
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Shane's just having a bad stretch, he should continue to play 20-25 a game.
serious question, when was his last quality game? because, aside from his short stretch of 3s against ISU, I don't think he's scored more than 5 points since @ ISU on 1/25.
I think you could argue that he was "good" against Kansas (I won't), so you are pretty much correct.
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But we should give him 25 minutes :lol:
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But we should give him 25 minutes :lol:
You have to consider the alternative.
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The turnovers are my biggest concern, especially when they lead to lay ups like last night.
But honestly, there aren't options for him not to play 20 minutes. He rebounds decently and he can defend longer 3s and even 4s. We'll need him against Baylor, not necessarily to score, but for rebounding and defense. Nino's "bad" defense is more due to him being in bad match ups than anything else, plus with Nino's ability to foul, no way he can play more than 25 minutes. And Gip/DJamer together is fine for short stretches, but I don't think it's good for more than 10 minutes a game. (Except maybe against KU.)
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For this year's team to go as far as possible, he needs the minutes and then we have to hope that he improves over what he has done the past 6 weeks or so.
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The turnovers are my biggest concern, especially when they lead to lay ups like last night.
But honestly, there aren't options for him not to play 20 minutes. He rebounds decently and he can defend longer 3s and even 4s. We'll need him against Baylor, not necessarily to score, but for rebounding and defense. Nino's "bad" defense is more due to him being in bad match ups than anything else, plus with Nino's ability to foul, no way he can play more than 25 minutes. And Gip/DJamer together is fine for short stretches, but I don't think it's good for more than 10 minutes a game. (Except maybe against KU.)
:love:
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We got toasted at the 4 last night. We need the good Shane back.
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The turnovers are my biggest concern, especially when they lead to lay ups like last night.
His TO% is lower than last season. Assists are up. FTR is way up. Rebounding is up (overall). 2% is slightly lower. 3% is really the only area he is doing significantly worse, and he's still at almost 30%, which is more than enough to keep opposing 4's honest and out of the paint. Benching him would be incredibly stupid even if Nino and Omari were average players.
My biggest concern is his injury.
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Timing of bad plays is everything.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Timing of bad plays is everything.
Well, it's something, I guess.
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The turnovers are my biggest concern, especially when they lead to lay ups like last night.
His TO% is lower than last season. Assists are up. FTR is way up. Rebounding is up (overall). 2% is slightly lower. 3% is really the only area he is doing significantly worse, and he's still at almost 30%, which is more than enough to keep opposing 4's honest and out of the paint. Benching him would be incredibly stupid even if Nino and Omari were average players.
My biggest concern is his injury.
I think the injury is part of it, but his bad stretch goes back to before that. I base this on his trends in offensive rating. Shane was really good in December and nearly 2/3 of January. He had a stretch of 11 out of 13 games with an offensive rating of 100 or better. In only 1 of his last 9 had he been over 100. Last night his orating was 50 and Texas Tech was one of his career worst at 11. He's in a bad stretch of basketball right now, especially on the offensive end.
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The turnovers are my biggest concern, especially when they lead to lay ups like last night.
His TO% is lower than last season. Assists are up. FTR is way up. Rebounding is up (overall). 2% is slightly lower. 3% is really the only area he is doing significantly worse, and he's still at almost 30%, which is more than enough to keep opposing 4's honest and out of the paint. Benching him would be incredibly stupid even if Nino and Omari were average players.
My biggest concern is his injury.
Last night his orating was 50 and Texas Tech was one of his career worst at 11. He's in a bad stretch of basketball right now, especially on the offensive end.
...which begs the question - why is he even orating at all during a basketball game? Just focus on your play, pal...
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I think the injury is part of it, but his bad stretch goes back to before that. I base this on his trends in offensive rating. Shane was really good in December and nearly 2/3 of January. He had a stretch of 11 out of 13 games with an offensive rating of 100 or better. In only 1 of his last 9 had he been over 100.
How is o-rating calculated? Why is 100 significant?
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I think the injury is part of it, but his bad stretch goes back to before that. I base this on his trends in offensive rating. Shane was really good in December and nearly 2/3 of January. He had a stretch of 11 out of 13 games with an offensive rating of 100 or better. In only 1 of his last 9 had he been over 100.
How is o-rating calculated? Why is 100 significant?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
100 is probably about average, although it depends on usage. Still, I think 100 is a good benchmark.
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Still, I think his performance over the last two seasons tells us more about what to expect from him the rest of the season than the last 9 games, (assuming injury is not a factor).
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Still, I think his performance over the last two seasons tells us more about what to expect from him the rest of the season than the last 9 games, (assuming injury is not a factor).
True.
His last 9 games is by far his worst stretch of games the last 2 seasons. It's not even close really.
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this board cracks me up, smh.
on one hand you have will spradling who sucks and never does crap right on the court, yet he gets a lifetime pass on goEMAW# and is widely heralded here as one of the greatest cats of all time.
on the other hand you have shane who has been great his entire career and a massive stud and yet everyone here gets all uppity about him when he has a couple of below par games (injured). i guess if shane had a sternum hernia like will then everything would be a-ok. disgusting.
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this board cracks me up, smh.
on one hand you have will spradling who sucks and never does crap right on the court, yet he gets a lifetime pass on goEMAW# and is widely heralded here as one of the greatest cats of all time.
on the other hand you have shane who has been great his entire career and a massive stud and yet everyone here gets all uppity about him when he has a couple of below par games (injured). i guess if shane had a sternum hernia like will then everything would be a-ok. disgusting.
Yeah, nobody has ever said anything bad about Will on here ever. disgusting.
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this board cracks me up, smh.
on one hand you have will spradling who sucks and never does crap right on the court, yet he gets a lifetime pass on goEMAW# and is widely heralded here as one of the greatest cats of all time.
on the other hand you have shane who has been great his entire career and a massive stud and yet everyone here gets all uppity about him when he has a couple of below par games (injured). i guess if shane had a sternum hernia like will then everything would be a-ok. disgusting.
Yeah, nobody has ever said anything bad about Will on here ever. disgusting.
valid points.
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At times the gE/Will Spradling love affair gets a bit old.
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his shots go in, when we're at home
his voice is not his own
your body sweats, the OOD shakes
another shot is what he takes
we can't win, when on the road
there's no doubt, that shane's at fault
his sternum hurts, he can't breathe
another 30 shots is all he needs
Ohh oohh
you like to think that you're immune to the stuff...oh yeah
it's closer to the truth to say you can't drop the pill
you know you're gonna have to face it
you're addicted to will
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:love:
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not good enough to take the big shot.
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Tries to do too much at the wrong time.
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not good enough to take the big shot.
1 on 4. Stupid Senior. He played good today, but once shows why I wont miss him next year
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1 on 4 or 1 on 5 on that last play
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rough ridin' idiot
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I'm not exactly sure what his plan was, but I was yelling "NO SHANE" as soon as he got the ball.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
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I was yelling TIMEOUT oscar!!!!!
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A good coach would've called a timeout to get his best player back on the court before a mistake like Shane's is made. Get a grip.
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never felt like a game we were going to win, but that was a stupid rough ridin' play. good grief.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Luckily this loss is on oscar's inept coaching in the final minutes. But Shane sure as crap didn't help at all.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
By the looks of twitter, you're going to have to punch a lot of people in the face. I will help.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Shane was great today. But that was a horrible rough ridin' decision.
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I liked what he was trying to do. He just lost the ball.
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A good coach would've called a timeout to get his best player back on the court before a mistake like Shane's is made. Get a grip.
This. I think oscar was gonna wait til it got down under 2 seconds though and called it
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Southwell played great. Very bad decision at end doesn't change that. If he plays like he did today we have a chance to win two next weekend.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
By the looks of twitter, you're going to have to punch a lot of people in the face. I will help.
I've got really good punchy fists.
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that play defines this senior class. they all had good moments, but at the end of the day they are dumbasses.
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While Shane's play was incredibly dumb, oscar's non time out is infinitely worse
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Southwell played great. Very bad decision at end doesn't change that. If he plays like he did today we have a chance to win two next weekend.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.247sports.com%2FUploads%2FAssets%2F762%2F87%2F1087762.gif&hash=b7c9bb8b72f4c95063adb7b24b30f913f5afa97f)
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No one is saying he played like crap today. No one is blaming the loss on him. Get over yourselves dorks.
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Sure, anyone can kind of like what he was trying to do, but how often has Shane trying to do things on his own really worked out well over the last couple of years? As I recall, many times it has ended up in a "What the Eff was that" kind of play.
Know your limitations.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Of course he didn't cost us the loss today. I don't want Foster going 1 on 4. I don't want McGruder going 1 on 4. I don't want Pullen going 1 on 4. There was no need to hurry. We were down 2. we had plenty of time left.
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Sure, anyone can kind of like what he was trying to do, but how often has Shane trying to do things on his own really worked out well over the last couple of years?
earlier in the game and @UT are two prominent examples
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Of course he didn't cost us the loss today. I don't want Foster going 1 on 4. I don't want McGruder going 1 on 4. I don't want Pullen going 1 on 4. There was no need to hurry. We were down 2. we had plenty of time left.
It wasn't a 1 on 4, not even close.
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Sure, anyone can kind of like what he was trying to do, but how often has Shane trying to do things on his own really worked out well over the last couple of years?
earlier in the game and @UT are two prominent examples
There's also been numerous examples where it hasn't worked out well at all, and his self implosion at WVU is a fine example.
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That play was similar to the UT game where he went 1on3 and tied the game. He got caught in between. He had "spinal tap" who had floated to the 3pt line, but I think he couldn't make a decision.
Wishe he wild have kicked it to ST.
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Southwell played great. Very bad decision at end doesn't change that. If he plays like he did today we have a chance to win two next weekend.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.247sports.com%2FUploads%2FAssets%2F762%2F87%2F1087762.gif&hash=b7c9bb8b72f4c95063adb7b24b30f913f5afa97f)
Yeah, that's not happening.
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Sure, anyone can kind of like what he was trying to do, but how often has Shane trying to do things on his own really worked out well over the last couple of years?
earlier in the game and @UT are two prominent examples
There's also been numerous examples where it hasn't worked out well at all, and his self implosion at WVU is a fine example.
you asked for examples where it did work, tho.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Punch me. I want it. He was a dumb eff on that play. Nigel #nails Johnson was all alone.
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It was 1 on 2 and he Niang (with 4fouls) in front. 2 others were trailing.
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Shane had a very good game overall, its what we've need from him the last month or so. The decision at the end was bad, but I can't blame him for wanting to make a play. Still, plenty of time and I'd rather have gotten the ball to Foster for a shot, or play off Foster to Shane.
And I don't mind the no TO by oscar, ISU had no chance to set up a defense creating what Shane thought he had, as Rusty said he just lost the ball trying to make a play.
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Sure, anyone can kind of like what he was trying to do, but how often has Shane trying to do things on his own really worked out well over the last couple of years?
earlier in the game and @UT are two prominent examples
There's also been numerous examples where it hasn't worked out well at all, and his self implosion at WVU is a fine example.
you asked for examples where it did work, tho.
The majority of the time when Shane has tried to do things on his own, it has been ugly.
It's no big deal, we probably wouldn't have won anyway.
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Anyone that thinks Shane lost us that game is very very LBBIQ
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Of course he didn't cost us the loss today. I don't want Foster going 1 on 4. I don't want McGruder going 1 on 4. I don't want Pullen going 1 on 4. There was no need to hurry. We were down 2. we had plenty of time left.
It wasn't a 1 on 4, not even close.
I really wish he made that pass to Nigel on the wing instead of double clutching it
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Anyone that thinks Shane lost us that game is very very LBBIQ
Yeah that play happened with like 26 seconds left in the game.
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this ones on oscar. should have called a TO to get foster back on the court and drawn up a play. instead let his guy go 1 on 4. sure, shane should know better, but this is oscar's fault.
pretty much why well never win the big 12 or make the sweet 16. in game coaching matters and oscar sucks at it.
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lazy fast break
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this ones on oscar. should have called a TO to get foster back on the court and drawn up a play. instead let his guy go 1 on 4. sure, shane should know better, but this is oscar's fault.
pretty much why well never win the big 12 or make the sweet 16. in game coaching matters and oscar sucks at it.
But we have
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I don't think we needed a timeout the guy who had the best second half of either team had a look at a wide open 3
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I don't think a TO was the issue. Shane had Niang (with 4 fouls) in front of him. If he were a slightly better ball handler, he might have split the defenders and got an and1. But Nigel was there and I would love to have seen Nigel fire the dagger into ISU.
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this ones on oscar. should have called a TO to get foster back on the court and drawn up a play. instead let his guy go 1 on 4. sure, shane should know better, but this is oscar's fault.
pretty much why well never win the big 12 or make the sweet 16. in game coaching matters and oscar sucks at it.
But we have
like, I know. well never win again as long as oscar is coach.
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this ones on oscar. should have called a TO to get foster back on the court and drawn up a play. instead let his guy go 1 on 4. sure, shane should know better, but this is oscar's fault.
pretty much why well never win the big 12 or make the sweet 16. in game coaching matters and oscar sucks at it.
But we have
like, I know. well never win again as long as oscar is coach.
That's a pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) thing to say, even for you.
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i won't claim to know what the best thing to do was in that situation, but if oscar had called a TO and we don't end up scoring people would be saying he shouldn't have called one.
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If anyone of you mother fuckers blame this loss on him I will punch you in the face. I'm not joking.
Of course he didn't cost us the loss today. I don't want Foster going 1 on 4. I don't want McGruder going 1 on 4. I don't want Pullen going 1 on 4. There was no need to hurry. We were down 2. we had plenty of time left.
It wasn't a 1 on 4, not even close.
I really wish he made that pass to Nigel on the wing instead of double clutching it
I would agree with that.
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i won't claim to know what the best thing to do was in that situation, but if oscar had called a TO and we don't end up scoring people would be saying he shouldn't have called one.
Only if we would have turned the ball over or some crap. If we just miss a shot, oscar did nothing wrong in that situation.
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i won't claim to know what the best thing to do was in that situation, but if oscar had called a TO and we don't end up scoring people would be saying he shouldn't have called one.
yes, absolutely
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i won't claim to know what the best thing to do was in that situation, but if oscar had called a TO and we don't end up scoring people would be saying he shouldn't have called one.
Of course, that's what people on message boards do.
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I almost always prefer to let players play. But it's kind of unique because he sat Marcus. Still, I have no problem w/ no timeout there.
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Shane also had his patented turnover, fails to guard his man who hits open 3, another turnover sequence. Those are always LOL worthy.
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I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
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I almost always prefer to let players play. But it's kind of unique because he sat Marcus. Still, I have no problem w/ no timeout there.
Yes, and very few coaches call a timeout with a guy running in transition, especially if its a senior who is a decent ball handler.
I agree with whoever said the kick out was probably the better idea there too.
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lost in the discussion is that incredible sequence with EMAPE where he clunked around and went headfirst into an and-1
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
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:Carl:
I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
You wanted a time out?
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:Carl:I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
You wanted a time out?
I clearly stated itt that I thought going without the time out was fine, that doesn't mean the turnover wasn't the issue with the last possession
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:Carl:I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
You wanted a time out?
Yea, anyone who isn't a dumbass wanted a timeout.
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:Carl:I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
You wanted a time out?
I clearly stated itt that I thought going without the time out was fine, that doesn't mean the turnover wasn't the issue with the last possession
here we have a classic message board miscommunication on if TO = timeout or turnover. fun to watch play out
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:Carl:I don't think a TO was the issue.
with the last possession? what? of course it was the issue, it prevented other things from happening
You wanted a time out?
Yea, anyone who isn't a dumbass wanted a timeout.
I'm speculating here, but I thought the whole point of sitting Foster was offense for defense. You need to call the time out there, otherwise sitting Marcus was a waste. Either way, oscar really mumped up that last sequence.
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i clearly stated itt that I thought going without the time out was fine, that doesn't mean the turnover wasn't the issue with the last possession
I think we're talking past each other here. When I said TO it was referring to time out. Not turnover. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding everything.
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 4m
"We've been on Shane to step up and be a player. I thought he was." - oscar Weber, #kstate #big12mbb
Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 2m
Weber said he didn't call timeout before Southwell's turnover because Nigel was open. " ...that's what I was seeing and hoping." kstate
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i clearly stated itt that I thought going without the time out was fine, that doesn't mean the turnover wasn't the issue with the last possession
I think we're talking past each other here. When I said TO it was referring to time out. Not turnover. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding everything.
Nope, you and 7 are right :thumbs:
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
Their is a difference between being AGGRESSIVE and being FOOLISH. Don't care if he got caught up in the action. He had plenty of time to realize.... wooooah, maybe I should back it out (after he pushed it up the court and saw we didn't have numbers)
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 2m
Weber said he didn't call timeout before Southwell's turnover because Nigel was open. " ...that's what I was seeing and hoping." kstate
wow. just wow. the only thing worse than not calling a TO to get our best player back in and set up the offense is saying you didn't call a TO because you wanted a 26% 3pt shooter to get the ball open on a fast break down 2. just wow.
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
Their is a difference between being AGGRESSIVE and being FOOLISH. Don't care if he got caught up in the action. He had plenty of time to realize.... wooooah, maybe I should back it out (after he pushed it up the court and saw we didn't have numbers)
man you've posted this same thing like 4 times, and you're wrong
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WE WERE DOWN 2 WHY WOULD YOU WANT NIGEL JOHNSON TO SHOOT A 3?!
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 2m
Weber said he didn't call timeout before Southwell's turnover because Nigel was open. " ...that's what I was seeing and hoping." kstate
wow. just wow. the only thing worse than not calling a TO to get our best player back in and set up the offense is saying you didn't call a TO because you wanted a 26% 3pt shooter to get the ball open on a fast break down 2. just wow.
we're you watching the game? Nigel was the best offensive player on the floor for either team.
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WE WERE DOWN 2 WHY WOULD YOU WANT NIGEL JOHNSON TO SHOOT A 3?!
Parody post?
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WE WERE DOWN 2 WHY WOULD YOU WANT NIGEL JOHNSON TO SHOOT A 3?!
Parody post?
Lol
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wow. just wow. the only thing worse than not calling a TO to get our best player back in and set up the offense is saying you didn't call a TO because you wanted a 26% 3pt shooter to get the ball open on a fast break down 2. just wow.
I don't know if a time out was going to get a better look than the one Nigel had right there. A three in rhythm is a great look. And Nigel was on today.
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WE WERE DOWN 2 WHY WOULD YOU WANT NIGEL JOHNSON TO SHOOT A 3?!
Because he was playing his best game as a Wildcat and was already 2-4 from 3? :dunno:
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I don't think oscar likes transition threes as much as I do.
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yes I watched the game. so youre telling me in that situation youd rather have Nigel Johnson shoot a 3 than to call a TO and put Foster back in to run a play for him or Gipson down low? yeah, Nigel had a very good game and yeah, he was 2-4 from deep that game, but he's also Nigel Johnson and we were down 2. id hope to god Nigel would have been smart enough to back out and allow oscar to call a TO instead of trying to be a hero like Shane did.
I disagree with the let the players play comment, especially when you don't have numbers. if you cant draw up a play for 2 pts in the final minute of the game when their ONLY big man has 4 fouls and you have Thomas Gipson who was totally dominant down low in the second half, then you shouldn't be coaching in the big 12.
I can deal with him not calling a TO, but saying its because he thought Nigel was open for a 3 is completely absurd. thats my beef.
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I don't think oscar likes transition threes as much as I do.
he clearly liked to have had one there, I know a coach who loves transition threes a whole lot
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I think in transition, entropy matters more than "numbers". I KNOW most coaches (and pickup game players) disagree with this. In other words, a 1 on 2 or 2 on 3 can still be a transition opportunity if the defense is in some degree of disarray.
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I don't think oscar likes transition threes as much as I do.
he clearly liked to have had one there, I know a coach who loves transition threes a whole lot
Roy Williams
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yes I watched the game. so youre telling me in that situation youd rather have Nigel Johnson shoot a 3 than to call a TO and put Foster back in to run a play for him or Gipson down low? yeah, Nigel had a very good game and yeah, he was 2-4 from deep that game, but he's also Nigel Johnson and we were down 2. id hope to god Nigel would have been smart enough to back out and allow oscar to call a TO instead of trying to be a hero like Shane did.
I disagree with the let the players play comment, especially when you don't have numbers. if you cant draw up a play for 2 pts in the final minute of the game when their ONLY big man has 4 fouls and you have Thomas Gipson who was totally dominant down low in the second half, then you shouldn't be coaching in the big 12.
I can deal with him not calling a TO, but saying its because he thought Nigel was open for a 3 is completely absurd. thats my beef.
yes I thought that Nigel shooting that three was the best play at that moment
and oscar's reasoning was far from absurd, Nigel had a great half and ran to the exact spot he should have ran to and was wide open, it was a textbook transition 3 set up
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I don't think oscar likes transition threes as much as I do.
he clearly liked to have had one there, I know a coach who loves transition threes a whole lot
Roy Williams
the guy I'm thinking about isn't quite that gray, but is twice the size as Roy
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I don't think you should rely on percentages much with a Freshman who barely played most of the season and only attempted 57 3's. Johnson had a great game and Shane should have found him for the open 3. We weren't going to get a look that good after a timeout.
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I don't think you should rely on percentages much with a Freshman who barely played most of the season and only attempted 57 3's. Johnson had a great game and Shane should have found him for the open 3. We weren't going to get a look that good after a timeout.
I agree with this, especially for Foster, but for certain we wouldn't have gotten a shot as wide open as Nigel was in the corner in ANY half court set.
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I didn't watch or listen to the game but my gut tells me to blame oscar. Also my heart and my brain.
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well I guess im in the minority in saying I don't want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 with 15 seconds left to win a game when were down 2. who would have thought...
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I didn't watch or listen to the game but my gut tells me to blame oscar. Also my heart and my brain.
It's dumb to blame him. Nigel was wide open and hot. I thought we had a great transition opportunity. Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
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I didn't watch or listen to the game but my gut tells me to blame oscar. Also my heart and my brain.
It's dumb to blame him. Nigel was wide open and hot. I thought we had a great transition opportunity. Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
Tell it to my gut.
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I didn't watch or listen to the game but my gut tells me to blame oscar. Also my heart and my brain.
It's dumb to blame him. Nigel was wide open and hot. I thought we had a great transition opportunity. Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
Tell it to my gut.
Hi _33's gut, I think you should think that oscar did a good job with our wild wildcats today. Cause he did! :D
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
Their is a difference between being AGGRESSIVE and being FOOLISH. Don't care if he got caught up in the action. He had plenty of time to realize.... wooooah, maybe I should back it out (after he pushed it up the court and saw we didn't have numbers)
man you've posted this same thing like 4 times, and you're wrong
No I am not. Shane never had any intention of kicking the ball out to anyone. He even said, he had tunnel vision. As soon as he crossed halfcourt, I could tell he was probably going to try to drive right to the lane and shoot or try to draw a foul.
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just really want to make sure that everyone knows they are saying they want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 down 2 in the final minute of a game.
no take backs. youre on record from now on.
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just really want to make sure that everyone knows they are saying they want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 down 2 in the final minute of a game.
no take backs. youre on record from now on.
I'll go on record as saying I would have been fine with it. I also would have been fine with Shane shooting had he not lost the ball. I also would have been fine if oscar called a timeout to put in Foster.
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I enjoyed watching everyone on twitter being pissed at Shane, to everyone on twitter being pissed at the people who were pissed at Shane.
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just really want to make sure that everyone knows they are saying they want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 down 2 in the final minute of a game.
no take backs. youre on record from now on.
I'll go on record as saying I would have been fine with it. I also would have been fine with Shane shooting had he not lost the ball. I also would have been fine if oscar called a timeout to put in Foster.
put them in order.
me-
1- oscar calls TO, puts in foster
2- shane puts up shot in transition
417- nigel johnson shoots a 3.
id rather have just about every scenario possible happen except put jevon thomas on the line for 2 FTs.
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Nigel was hotter than hansel. You're crazy!
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just really want to make sure that everyone knows they are saying they want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 down 2 in the final minute of a game.
no take backs. youre on record from now on.
I'll go on record as saying I would have been fine with it. I also would have been fine with Shane shooting had he not lost the ball. I also would have been fine if oscar called a timeout to put in Foster.
put them in order.
me-
1- oscar calls TO, puts in foster
2- shane puts up shot in transition
417- nigel johnson shoots a 3.
id rather have just about every scenario possible happen except put jevon thomas on the line for 2 FTs.
they're all about equal to me. I'd probably put Shane shooting ahead of everything. But not by much.
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I enjoyed watching everyone on twitter being pissed at Shane, to everyone on twitter being pissed at the people who were pissed at Shane.
Looking back, that was a fun stretch on twitter. I wish I would have stepped back and just watched.
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Nigel was hotter than hansel. You're crazy!
i mean were arguing about something that didn't happen here, but i don't like the idea of nigel Johnson shooting a 3 in that situation. better than a turnover, sure, but not better than a TO.
i guess im just having a hard time believing that people would want him to shoot there. but hey, didn't happen. oh well...
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just really want to make sure that everyone knows they are saying they want Nigel Johnson shooting a 3 down 2 in the final minute of a game.
no take backs. youre on record from now on.
I'll go on record as saying I would have been fine with it. I also would have been fine with Shane shooting had he not lost the ball. I also would have been fine if oscar called a timeout to put in Foster.
put them in order.
me-
1- oscar calls TO, puts in foster
2- shane puts up shot in transition
417- nigel johnson shoots a 3.
id rather have just about every scenario possible happen except put jevon thomas on the line for 2 FTs.
they're all about equal to me. I'd probably put Shane shooting ahead of everything. But not by much.
Looking at percentages, I change my answer to being the number 1 choice:
Chances Nigel hits an open 3 - I'll put it at 30%. But for discussion sake, I'll put that as a win. 30% chance of victory
Chance we score out of a timeout: Let's be generous and say 50% chance of a 2. Let's assume we have a 50% chance of winning in overtime. 25% chance of victory.
Chances Shane hits a 2: Let's say 40% chance it goes in. Again a 50% chance we win in overtime. 20% chance of victory
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If we had a full possession, I'd put our chances of scoring out of a timeout higher than 50% since we average 1.08 PPP. (That would be about a 54% chance of tying, perhaps). I'd still rather have Nigel take the open 3.
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Rusty just hit Tonya in the lips with his math stick.
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if there was 3 seconds left, then id agree with that logic. i know you put "for discussions sake" on there but with so much time left you've gotta account for the fact that ISU would score to win or tie after a nigel 3, to lessen our percentage. shane scoring does the same thing. calling a TO lets us run some clock down and gets the chance they score after we make a bucket down. also we could have gotten a 3 out of the TO. so the percentages are still way more complicated than were making them out to be and i definitely made them more complicated to prove a point, but 30% chance of winning from a nigel 3 just isn't right. i still go with the TO.
also a TO lets weber tell the guys who to foul if we don't get a bucket. we fouled a pretty good FT shooter after the turnover.
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I enjoyed watching everyone on twitter being pissed at Shane, to everyone on twitter being pissed at the people who were pissed at Shane.
Looking back, that was a fun stretch on twitter. I wish I would have stepped back and just watched.
me too :(
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Yeah, I forgot how much time was left.
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Hey guys, I pulled a number out of my ass like michigancat just did and it says that if we would have called a timeout our chances of winning was at 85%. Math.
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Hey guys, I pulled a number out of my ass like michigancat just did and it says that if we would have called a timeout our chances of winning was at 85%. Math.
Who cares? :dunno: You bet your farm again against the cats. 'Grats!
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Yeah, I forgot how much time was left.
yeah. i kind of do too. oh well.
fwiw, Self called a TO in a tie game and theyre about to score.
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Hey guys, I pulled a number out of my ass like michigancat just did and it says that if we would have called a timeout our chances of winning was at 85%. Math.
i would put it more at 87%, but that's just me :dunno:
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Yeah, I forgot how much time was left.
yeah. i kind of do too. oh well.
fwiw, Self called a TO in a tie game and theyre about to score.
man, just mushed myself. got a terrible shot out of that TO. :frown:
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This is interesting, feel free to adjust/debate my assumptions:
Nigel shoots with 20 seconds left:
30% it goes in, 50% chance we stop them - 15% chance of victory
Call a timeout, we try to shoot with 5-10 seconds left? Because we're trying to score in a small window, I'd lower the chances of scoring. Let's say 40% chance of a tie, which leaves us with two scenarios:
40% tie, 70% chance we stop them, which leads to overtime, where it's 50% chance of victory. 14% chance of victory
Shane shooting was clearly the worst option and I won't bother calculating. But even in this scenario,
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yeah, ill give you that theyre pretty much very similar situations. i just like the idea of the coach having more control over the game more than a freshman who plays medium minutes taking control. a senior had the ball and made a terrible play. if nigel shoots and misses were all blaming him for not pulling it out.
but sure, rusty, probably equally likely scenarios if we go for a 2 out of the TO. if theres a 30%? chance we shoot a 3 out of the TO and 35% chance we make it (sprads/foster), our chance of winning goes up a bit.
also the chance we foul them and they make 1 FT to force OT is somewhere in there...
either way, chances of winning after shane turns it over are much much worse. he should know better.
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Really, we should all be pissed at oscar for not having Foster on the floor in the first place. WTF, oscar?
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Really, we should all be pissed at oscar for not having Foster on the floor in the first place. WTF, oscar?
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but sure, rusty, probably equally likely scenarios if we go for a 2 out of the TO. if theres a 30%? chance we shoot a 3 out of the TO and 35% chance we make it (sprads/foster), our chance of winning goes up a bit.
also the chance we foul them and they make 1 FT to force OT is somewhere in there...
Yeah, I'm over-simplifying for sure - a 40% chance of a tie could be changed to like 50% chance of a tie to keep it simple but maybe do a better job of incorporating the possibilities of 3's. I think there's some tradeoff here - as you run down the clock, you make it harder to do, but you're definitely reducing your chances of scoring at the same time, because you're trying to score in a small time window. Obviously the NBA is different, but you can see how much efficiency decreases the later you go in the shot clock here:
http://www.82games.com/clock.htm
For comparison purposes, here are the "Pts per 100 Poss" NBA league wide averages:
0-10 Secs: 112.3
11-15 Secs: 102.3
16-20 Secs: 100.6
21+ Secs: 91.8
...it gets tough in the waning seconds of the shot clock!
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You guys are completely disregarding the possibility that we pull in an offensive rebound in your percentages.
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You guys are completely disregarding the possibility that we pull in an offensive rebound in your percentages.
no, I'm purely including that as chance we score based on our PPP and the unique situation. At least in the timeout scenario.
But you're right I didn't in the Shane and Nigel shooting scenarios. An OR oppy may have been pretty high because of the defensive entropy.
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
Their is a difference between being AGGRESSIVE and being FOOLISH. Don't care if he got caught up in the action. He had plenty of time to realize.... wooooah, maybe I should back it out (after he pushed it up the court and saw we didn't have numbers)
man you've posted this same thing like 4 times, and you're wrong
No I am not. Shane never had any intention of kicking the ball out to anyone. He even said, he had tunnel vision. As soon as he crossed halfcourt, I could tell he was probably going to try to drive right to the lane and shoot or try to draw a foul.
What the hell does Shane saying he had tunnel vision have to do with whether or not a timeout should have been called? Is the coach supposed to be a mind reader too, get a grip.
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Really, we should all be pissed at oscar for not having Foster on the floor in the first place. WTF, oscar?
Wait....so what your saying is (did not get to view and not overly paying attention at the end) Shane has ball, dribbles 1/3 of the court into 3+ defenders(?). 1.) Foster is not in and 2.) oscar didn't try to call a timeout?
if that's the case me = :angry:
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Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
That was the Bruciest thing ever, he yelled at the referee while walking away, sitting down, and looking at the floor, it was a sight to behold
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Really, we should all be pissed at oscar for not having Foster on the floor in the first place. WTF, oscar?
Wait....so what your saying is (did not get to view and not overly paying attention at the end) Shane has ball, dribbles 1/3 of the court into 3+ defenders(?). 1.) Foster is not in and 2.) oscar didn't try to call a timeout?
if that's the case me = :angry:
People, generally, are very poor at nuance and detail. This is a great example.
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Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
That was the Bruciest thing ever, he yelled at the referee while walking away, sitting down, and looking at the floor, it was a sight to behold
He is so goofy, but man can it be entertaining at times.
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Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
That was the Bruciest thing ever, he yelled at the referee while walking away, sitting down, and looking at the floor, it was a sight to behold
He is so goofy, but man can it be entertaining at times.
i wish he would entertain us with wins
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He has. He's 47-20 as a cat. :emawkid:
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Really, we should all be pissed at oscar for not having Foster on the floor in the first place. WTF, oscar?
Wait....so what your saying is (did not get to view and not overly paying attention at the end) Shane has ball, dribbles 1/3 of the court into 3+ defenders(?). 1.) Foster is not in and 2.) oscar didn't try to call a timeout?
if that's the case me = :angry:
People, generally, are very poor at nuance and detail. This is a great example.
Why?
sent from my phone while in the crapper
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Also, he worked the refs the second half and got the calls on our side for once. I thought that was impressive.
That was the Bruciest thing ever, he yelled at the referee while walking away, sitting down, and looking at the floor, it was a sight to behold
He is so goofy, but man can it be entertaining at times.
Dorkiest work ever but it damn well flipped some calls. Even Mussberger commented on the calls going our way after that freak out.
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I'm not mad at oscar or Shane but then again I'm not an irrational dumbass
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Seriously, though, what is the point of benching a player with 4 fouls if you aren't going to play him during the last minute of the game?
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Seriously, though, what is the point of benching a player with 4 fouls if you aren't going to play him during the last minute of the game?
He didn't want him to foul out on D. He would have subbed him in if the open transition wasn't there. It's not that hard to breakdown you guys
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Curtis Kitchen ?@curtiskitchen 6m
Shane Southwell owned it on last turnover: "I had total tunnel vision, I'm not going to lie to you." #kstate #big12mbb
Their is a difference between being AGGRESSIVE and being FOOLISH. Don't care if he got caught up in the action. He had plenty of time to realize.... wooooah, maybe I should back it out (after he pushed it up the court and saw we didn't have numbers)
man you've posted this same thing like 4 times, and you're wrong
No I am not. Shane never had any intention of kicking the ball out to anyone. He even said, he had tunnel vision. As soon as he crossed halfcourt, I could tell he was probably going to try to drive right to the lane and shoot or try to draw a foul.
What the hell does Shane saying he had tunnel vision have to do with whether or not a timeout should have been called? Is the coach supposed to be a mind reader too, get a grip.
Who said anything about a timeout? I never did. I never commented once that oscar should or should not have called a timeout. I said it was stupid and foolish for Shane to drive the ball in there and try to score himself in that situation 1 on 4. I didn't believe for one second that when he was driving in there, that he was gonna kick it out to Nigel. I would have rather had him kick it out to Nigel than taking matters all into his own hands.
Maybe if that was Foster out there instead of Nigel, maybe Shane sees Foster (trusts Foster more) and has it in his mind that I could kick it out to our best shooter/scorer/player. But it was Nigel out there.... and as soon as Shane got a dribble or two past halfcourt, I was like.... oh Sh*t, cause my gut told me he is going to the lane and putting up a floating shot. My gut was a little wrong cause he never got off the floating shot
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
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Southwell played great. Very bad decision at end doesn't change that. If he plays like he did today we have a chance to win two next weekend.
Jesus christ steffy. We lost to Iowa st.
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
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Gross. You are a gross person.
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Gross. You are a gross person.
get out, you've been oscar'd
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:lol: <-- IRL doing this right now
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:Wha:
Southwell played great. Very bad decision at end doesn't change that. If he plays like he did today we have a chance to win two next weekend.
Jesus christ steffy. We lost to Iowa st.
If we are a 10 or 11 we won't play anybody better than isu next weekend.
I thought we played very well. So did isu. They are just slightly better but our future looks bright.
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oscar is hot. I'll dance to his beat. Shane will leave you waiting by your Honda CRX outside the community center at the end of the night without a kind word.
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TheBoatsman should post more. :th_twocents:
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
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I was hoping someone would quote this
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
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I was hoping someone would quote this
:thumbs:
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
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I was hoping someone would quote this
I was going to, but then kim had another zinger and I lost it
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Did I get PI'd by Kim Carnes and not even notice it. That dude cannot blog like he used to.
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Did I get PI'd by Kim Carnes and not even notice it. That dude cannot blog like he used to.
you got worked
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I thought I was witnessing someone developing delayed onset adult autism.
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I thought I was witnessing someone developing delayed onset adult autism.
blacklab ran us out of body bags, but i think there's a moldy tarp in the back we can use.
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If you guys attach your hobby hopes to Shane Southwell I really don't know what to say. He remains unreliable.
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Shane strikes me as an unreliable player. Why are people shocked when they cannot rely on him? Is he new? Did he just arrive on campus and everyone is waiting for him to mature? No, don't emotionally attach yourself to him.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: 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the matrix