How good is Freeman going to get?

[FBWillie]

I personally would have...EVERY position is open

You're exactly right.  The coddling issue isn't limited to what Prince says.  Would you believe Prince if he said that?  I wouldn't either.

THANK YOU, EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. 

Still; I Guess I'm kinda playing devils advocate here.   I'm not about to declare Freeman the 08 heisman winner nor do I think we'll win a NC anytime soon; but I just don't agree with the understanding that we're screwed because of his last 3 public performances being completely crapty.  Even if he were to duplicate last years performance, I think we can still win 7-8 games with the improved talent surrounding him.  Isn't that about what everyone was predicting on the 07-08 prediction thread?  Did anything anyone saw Sat change their opinion of what will happen this coming year?

Ultimately, we've got a long road ahead of us with Freeman; He will get better.  How much better?  Who knows, but he will get better none the less. 

[FBWillie]

And before someone digs up my previous post comparing Freeman's stats to VY's realize I was more making a mockery of judging a player based soley off of stats.   Some guys are just winners.  Tom Brady is a winner.  Coffman looks like he could be a winner.  Freeman?  He's more of a winner than Webb, Evridge, and Meier were.

[ksu_FAN]

FWIW, in the practices I've been to Prince far from coddles Freeman or anyone else on the roster.  When they need to be called out, he does it and he's constantly talking to Freeman and it usually isn't coddling. 

[Poopley]

shhhhhhh, don't tell J-Mart. He's made up his mind already.

[ksu_FAN]

Also, this game really did nothing to change my assessment of Freeman from this thread before the game.  Freeman is still learning to read progressions and it showed saturday.  It was magnified by the mixed rosters and running clock and a few drops.  In practice at times Freeman has shown the ability to manage his progressions, and at times not.  Sometimes when he doesn't he forces balls and those are things he must get better at.  Honestly, Coffman is more advanced in both of those b/c of his background, but I still don't think there should be a controversy.  If this continues well into next fall, then we may have one though.  However, there shouldn't be any QB controversy based on the spring game.

[FBWillie]

Was coffman really that much better at reading the progressions? 

stats

He actually had just as a crappy a completion %

[fatty fat fat]

Was coffman really that much better at reading the progressions? 

stats

He actually had just as a crappy a completion %

Shutup! He "stole" the show!

[ksu_FAN]

Was coffman really that much better at reading the progressions? 

stats

He actually had just as a crappy a completion %

That's valid.  He wasn't that much better and he was given field position twice.  He did have a few more critical drops (Wilson) though and I though the white were able to sort of sustain a few more drives.  Plus, I'm going off of what I've seen in practice as well.  Again, I think Freeman is still the clear #1 right now. 

[bigdeal]

Fan kind of stole my thunder.  Although Prince is quick to shoulder the blame publicly for Freeman's failings, I suspect it is because he wants to protect the confidence of his young QB.  He wants him to take the leadership role, to be cocky, to feel he's the man, that he can do anything, to feel he can't be beat (ala Michael Bishop).  I'm sure Freeman has confidence, but that can be fragile and Prince has to know there will be growing pains.  I suspect he just tries to continually correct the mistakes while keeping Freeman's belief high.  As long as Prince is working diligently behind the scenes at practices, and constantly in Freeman's ear, then I think he is doing what needs to be done. 

[pissclams]

Well if you clowns don't get off of Freeman's shoulders with all of your unfair expectations I wouldn't be shocked to see Freeman playing ball closer to home next season.  Then who's gonna run your republican party?

[FBWillie]

Well if you clowns don't get off of Freeman's shoulders with all of your unfair expectations I wouldn't be shocked to see Freeman playing ball closer to home next season.  Then who's gonna run your republican party?

He's going to contest the NFL age limit and replace trent green?   

[Levi Wolters]

So just curious... what could Prince have said post game to not be coddling freeman?  Is it too late to revert?  Will he be forever known to be coddling freeman based off of past events?   

Was asking this as a serious question... 

I personally would have deflected any QB conversation to what a great job Coffman did and reminded everyone that EVERY position is open; then start talking about what kind of impact you hope to recieve from some of the incoming guys.

That would have been great, except we all remember this from J-Mart's article last year:

Relax, this isn't an attempt to ignite a quarterback controversy.
   It wouldn't matter, anyway, because K-State coach Ron Prince has made it perfectly clear there isn't one. And he did so again Tuesday.
   "I'm not going to go back and forth and waffle back and forth," Prince said. "It's the kind of thing that is divisive. If the situation comes up where we have a medical issue, I have confidence in Dylan. . . .
   "I'm not going to go back and forth. I don't think it's fair to the team."
   But what about in the spirit of competition, which Prince has repeatedly hailed as a key to building a championship-caliber team?
   Wouldn't it make sense for Meier, the seasoned if unspectacular senior, to be given a legitimate chance to push Freeman, the inexperienced and unquesti oned future of the program who acknowledged Tuesday the starting job was his for the foreseeable future?
   That was the essence of the question asked of Prince following his news conference Tuesday, and he listened to most of it before quickly responding:
   "Those are your words."
   It was hastily explained that he'd just said that minutes earlier, but it didn't matter. Prince cut off the explanation.
   "It's been very competitive in practice."
   He turned his back, seemingly fed up, and a last question was posed to him - then does Meier have a chance to overtake Freeman, in the spirit of competit ion?
Silence, as he walked out the door.

EVERY position is not open; the quarterback position has been closed tight since Freeman took the job at Baylor, regardless of competition. That's not going to change.

[FBWillie]

EVERY position is not open; the quarterback position has been closed tight since Freeman took the job at Baylor, regardless of competition. That's not going to change.

Do you think this could change now that only prince's Recruits are hitting the field...? No sarcasm, genuinely interested in your thoughts.  If not, what other explanation would you hypothesize as justification for the love fest?

[Levi Wolters]

EVERY position is not open; the quarterback position has been closed tight since Freeman took the job at Baylor, regardless of competition. That's not going to change.

Do you think this could change now that only prince's Recruits are hitting the field...? No sarcasm, genuinely interested in your thoughts.  If not, what other explanation would you hypothesize as justification for the love fest?

Interesting theory, but I don't think so. He's in too deep with Josh. I don't think it's unfair to say that a very large part of Ron Prince's success or failure in his tenure at K-State will be judged directly on what Freeman does or doesn't do. And I think, at this point, RP probably feels the same way. Think about it, He:
-stole Josh from a rival, and was worshiped by the fan base for doing so
-never considered redshirting him
-put him in for a senior
-held with him through some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time
-praised him when things went well
-excused him when things went poorly

I don't seem him ever wavering, unless his job depends on it at some point.

[fatty fat fat]

-stole Josh from a rival, and was worshiped by the fan base for doing so Yeah. It was a big deal
-never considered redshirting him Turned out to be a 100% success
-put him in for a senior Turned out to be a 100% success
-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time Turned out to be a 100% success, freeman finished up 4-3
-praised him when things went well as coach should do to the media
-excused him when things went poorly as coach should do to the media

[Saulbadguy]

EVERY position is not open; the quarterback position has been closed tight since Freeman took the job at Baylor, regardless of competition. That's not going to change.

Do you think this could change now that only prince's Recruits are hitting the field...? No sarcasm, genuinely interested in your thoughts.  If not, what other explanation would you hypothesize as justification for the love fest?

Interesting theory, but I don't think so. He's into deep with Josh. I don't think it's unfair to say that a very large part of Ron Prince's success or failure in his tenure at K-State will be judged directly on what Freeman does or doesn't do. And I think, at this point, RP probably feels the same way. Think about it, He:
-stole Josh from a rival, and was worshiped by the fan base for doing so
-never considered redshirting him
-put him in for a senior
-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time
-praised him when things went well
-excused him when things went poorly

I don't seem him ever wavering, unless his job depends on it at some point.

-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time

2004, 2005 season.  Terrible QB play all around. 

[michigancat]

Dylan had Moxie and Alen was tough!

[Saulbadguy]

Dylan had Moxie and Alen was tough!

I liked Webb the most out of the 3. 

[Levi Wolters]

-stole Josh from a rival, and was worshiped by the fan base for doing so Yeah. It was a big deal
-never considered redshirting him Turned out to be a 100% success
-put him in for a senior Turned out to be a 100% success
-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time Turned out to be a 100% success, freeman finished up 4-3
-praised him when things went well as coach should do to the media
-excused him when things went poorly as coach should do to the media

I'm not arguing with any of that. I was just laying out the facts as to why I don't think Josh will ever have to overcome competition for his job.

[pissclams]

I think Prince's post-game comments were meant in a joking manner and agree with Levi that there's no way Prince ever benches Freeman.

[The Minister]

Can't we just wait for the slaughter at Auburn to occur before we argue some more?

Seriously, here's an interesting comparison I heard Saturday at the Spring Game:

Josh Freeman is to Chris Simms AS Carson Coffman is to Major Applewhite.  Discuss.  (Yeah, analogies are sweet.)

[michigancat]

Can't we just wait for the slaughter at Auburn to occur before we argue some more?

Seriously, here's an interesting comparison I heard Saturday at the Spring Game:

Josh Freeman is to Chris Simms AS Carson Coffman is to Major Applewhite.  Discuss.  (Yeah, analogies are sweet.)

Perfect comparison!*

*Except Applewhite was a B12OPOY and Carson Coffman was a greyshirt with 0 D1 offers.





I already hate Carson Coffman with all of my being.

[cireksu]

EVERY position is not open; the quarterback position has been closed tight since Freeman took the job at Baylor, regardless of competition. That's not going to change.

Do you think this could change now that only prince's Recruits are hitting the field...? No sarcasm, genuinely interested in your thoughts.  If not, what other explanation would you hypothesize as justification for the love fest?

Interesting theory, but I don't think so. He's into deep with Josh. I don't think it's unfair to say that a very large part of Ron Prince's success or failure in his tenure at K-State will be judged directly on what Freeman does or doesn't do. And I think, at this point, RP probably feels the same way. Think about it, He:
-stole Josh from a rival, and was worshiped by the fan base for doing so
-never considered redshirting him
-put him in for a senior
-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time
-praised him when things went well
-excused him when things went poorly

I don't seem him ever wavering, unless his job depends on it at some point.

-held with him threw some of the worst football played by a K-State quarterback in a long time

2004, 2005 season.  Terrible QB play all around. 

You can't compare Freeman's play to any other qb because when was the last time we started a true freshman?

[Jeffrey_Martin]

These are my beliefs:

1. I believe Prince coddles Freeman, and I believe he always will. That's just the nature of this arrangement.
2. I believe Freeman should have played from Day 1 because it was obvious the job was going to be his, sooner rather than later.
3. I believe Freeman will be and, most importantly, deserves to be the starting quarterback for this team. Let's not get carried away with Carson-mania (unless it's Carson Palmer, of course).

[catzacker]

These are my beliefs:

1. I believe Prince coddles Freeman, and I believe he always will. That's just the nature of this arrangement.
2. I believe Freeman should have played from Day 1 because it was obvious the job was going to be his, sooner rather than later.
3. I believe Freeman will be and, most importantly, deserves to be the starting quarterback for this team. Let's not get carried away with Carson-mania (unless it's Carson Palmer, of course).

Now that you bring it up, I think that Freeman's tenure might look (hopefully) similar to Palmer's (proabably minus the Heisman).  He was highly rated, got the job 9 games into his freshman year, and everyone thought he was terrible after he started playing.  IIRC, his first 2-3 seasons were terrible and he underperformed....then his Senior year he was awesome (of course he was helped by having an amazing set of receivers - thank you Mike Williams for dropping every ball vs. KSU - a good offensive line, and a defense that was incredible)

[ChicagoCat]

I still don't think Dylan was that bad, I think if the offensive gameplan was called for Meier the way it was for Freeman, Meier would have been more successful then he was.  That said, if you have to call that gameplan I think you might as well go with the Freshman.

-excused him when things went poorly as coach should do to the media

This is where my problem with the situation arises.  Prince has shown no fear in throwing other players under the bus in regards the media and yet he coddles Freeman.  I think Freeman will develop better if he has to answer his critics and isn't babied by Prince. 

The relationship between the two of them and the importance of this experiment has left me feeling about as sick about the program as I ever have.

[michigancat]

This is where my problem with the situation arises.  Prince has shown no fear in throwing other players under the bus in regards the media and yet he coddles Freeman. 

Who?  I don't remember him throwing under a player under the bus in front of the media because of their play.

[The Minister]

Can't we just wait for the slaughter at Auburn to occur before we argue some more?

Seriously, here's an interesting comparison I heard Saturday at the Spring Game:

Josh Freeman is to Chris Simms AS Carson Coffman is to Major Applewhite.  Discuss.  (Yeah, analogies are sweet.)

Perfect comparison!*

*Except Applewhite was a B12OPOY and Carson Coffman was a greyshirt with 0 D1 offers.






I already hate Carson Coffman with all of my being.

My bad, Rusty.  I need to learn to lay my internet sarcasm on thicker.

[ChicagoCat]

This is where my problem with the situation arises.  Prince has shown no fear in throwing other players under the bus in regards the media and yet he coddles Freeman. 

Who?  I don't remember him throwing under a player under the bus in front of the media because of their play.

I think the different color shirts in practice does so.  I think Meier was definitely held more responsible for his mistakes then Freeman ever was.  No way does Meier stay in the ku game as long as Freeman does.  Maybe throwing them under the bus wasn't the right words but being held accountable is.  It seems every players starting job is up for grabs except Freeman's.  And this isn't "Coffman played great" gushing either, if anything it is "Prince shouldn't of ran off every QB who could compete last year."  Coffman isn't even in the equation in my mind.

[michigancat]

Can't we just wait for the slaughter at Auburn to occur before we argue some more?

Seriously, here's an interesting comparison I heard Saturday at the Spring Game:

Josh Freeman is to Chris Simms AS Carson Coffman is to Major Applewhite.  Discuss.  (Yeah, analogies are sweet.)

Perfect comparison!*

*Except Applewhite was a B12OPOY and Carson Coffman was a greyshirt with 0 D1 offers.

My bad, Rusty.  I need to learn to lay my internet sarcasm on thicker.




I already hate Carson Coffman with all of my being.

The thing is, that will come up sometime this year, and it won't be sarcasm.

Seriously.