How good is Freeman going to get?

[Jeffrey_Martin]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

[mjrod]

Depends on how well his supporting staff gels.

[cireksu]

He'll go as far as his offensive line.  He is bright, huge, athletic, has shown both touch and the ability to make a ball fit.  With a running game and a decent offensive line I could see him becoming a first round pick. 

[SUPERKSUFAN]

he needs to have a better line - he just needs more time.  Last year, he made some fast and bad decisions but, a good example of how to break down last season...

Texas game - line held and he was a passing machine and made good decisions.

Kwho game - line was terrible and no WR's to match his talent, therefore, bad decisions and tons of mistakes.

The coaches need to get more people around Freeman that will help him grow - and they need to back off of him and quit trying to protect him - let him play the game he is use to playing.

I am looking for a lot of improvement from Freeman this year but, he will only be as good as his supporting staff.

[cireksu]

When the offensive line was good, Freeman was nearly unstoppable, CU, Texas, OSU.  When it was bad he was bad.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Yeah it's easy to blame the offensive line for his troubles.

But there's one thing he needs to work on, regardless of the line.  Forcing throws.  He did that a LOT and it turned into interceptions a LOT.  Even when he wasn't under a ton of pressure.  If he can fix that, I think he'll be a damn good quarterback.

[ksudeuce]

Last year, we switched from a Man blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme in regards to the o-line, and we really didn't have the players to run that blocking scheme really well. This year, we have quite a bit of JUCO help coming in the help out the o-line. We really won't know how good the line is till fall though, if they can gel and give Josh a couple extra seconds, then he could eliminate quite a few of his mistakes that were caused by defensive pressure. Another thing that hampered Josh down the stretch was the fact that our top 3 recievers were either out altogethere or playing injured. Against ku Jordy Nelson played at about 70%, and he was our top threat to stretch the field, kind of scary. So, ku just pinned their ears back and we besically had no options. The Rutgers game, Yamon only played about one quarter of that game, and Patton and Johnson both got hurt. SO, the offensive supporting cast should be much better this year, with three legit recieving threats coming in this fall, and a revamped line to protect Josh. I think the sky is the limit if everyone can stay healthy.

[JTKSU]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

For a true freshman with a horrible o-line I don't think he did all that poorly.  If you count up all the other true freshman who were multiple conference players of the week in a BCS conference, he's in pretty good company.  I think natural maturation will help him immensely in his decision making progression.  I wouldn't read too much into his interceptions thus far in spring practice,  when you constantly mix up your blocking, running and passing games things tend to get a little helter skelter.  If he is still throwing a bunch of picks a couple weeks into the fall practices (after the line-ups become a bit more consistant) I will be more concerned.  BTW- I noticed the last two posts of yours have a decidedly negative tone.  Are you pouting after a tongue lashing from Prince?  

[acceleration_man]

My consensus is:

Forced throws were caused by (1) True freshman QB and (2) Running for dear life (bulletin: he's not Bishop or Roberson with his feet!) because of the non-existant protection!

Freeman will be as good as his O-line will let him be. Having good receivers always helps, but he'd be good anyway.

[coitus]

he'll always be a high interception guy.

but the sky's the limit because he has the strength and touch to make all the throws, and also the escapability and size to withstand a rush.

first team all big xii.  no all american stuff tho.

[sonofdaxjones]

The really bad games were either a product of really poor game planning and in game coaching by the KSU staff-see ku game.   

[fatty fat fat]

4-3 as a big 12 starter.

[ksu_FAN]

I think the issue with last year is the way he finished.  It appeared that after a horrible start he started figuring things out starting with OSU (though the gameplan helped) then a few growing pains before a great run in the ISU, CU, and UT games.  Then things really went south vs ku and didn't look all that much better vs Rutgers even after a month to prep.

Clearly Josh has all the physical tools to be great, its just going to come down if he can figure out the scheme and how to read his progressions which he's really only in his 2nd year of doing.  That will be the key.  Granted, he's going to need some OL play and WR/TE play, and it will help a bunch if we can get a guy who can stretch the field.

I really think an improved Johnson/Patton will help take some of the pressure off, even with a moderately improved OL Johnson has shown much more ability to break things than he did last year after coming in late, and I'm sure Patton has made similar improvements.  

IMO this year the goal has to be for Freeman to hit around 55% of his passes and have somewhere around a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  If he can do that, he'll be in position to be an All Big 12 player in his JR/SR years.  But again, I think this will have much more to do with how he handles the mental side of the game and if Franklin/Prince can push the right buttons to make that happen.  

[FBWillie]

Here's some stats for you:
    COMP        Att     PC      Yrds      YPP        TD       INT
      84          143    58%    1,155     13.75      6         7         
 
Compared to Josh Freeman
     140         270    51%     1,780      12.71     6        15

For those wondering; the first set of stats belong to Vince Young his freshman year.  Yes, I see the huge disparity between the INT's and the lack of TD's compared to pass attempts, but Vince had a much better O-Line; A much better running game; and probably a better receiving core... I don't remember.  Compared to Josh having an entire O-line of suckage in front of him; A musical chairs of receivers coming in and out with injuries; and a run game that didn't really come together until the end of the year. 

I'm not saying Josh will win a NC or heisman; but it wouldn't be the first time that a true freshman came out with not so great stats only to turn in god like stats his Junior/Senior year...    For those wondering, here's VY's Junior year stats...

COMP        Att     PC      Yrds      YPP        TD       INT
212          325    65%    3,036      14.32     26         10 

[fatty fat fat]

not to mention vince was a rs frosh, and was zinging it to roy williams.

[fatty fat fat]

one thing was apparent in vince's 1st year, he was a winner.

[fatty fat fat]

just like freeman last year, for the most part

[FBWillie]

... have somewhere around a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  

Hell, a 1:1 TD to INT ratio would be a hell of an improvement for next year.

[ksu_FAN]

FWIW, here is what I'd like to see from Freeman this year minimum (reg season).  

176-320-9, 55%, 2,300 YDS, 17 TDs  

[Pete]

... have somewhere around a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  

Hell, a 1:1 TD to INT ratio would be a hell of an improvement for next year.

I'll be shocked if Freeman has more TD's than INT's.  The crazy thing is that Coffman might actually be a better redzone QB than Freeman.

[coitus]

so it begins.

let the backup qb love commence.

[Pike]

I think it's all in the o-line. It can't be any worse this year, so we should see an offense with a little more productivity.

[ksu_FAN]

... have somewhere around a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  

Hell, a 1:1 TD to INT ratio would be a hell of an improvement for next year.

I'll be shocked if Freeman has more TD's than INT's.  The crazy thing is that Coffman might actually be a better redzone QB than Freeman.

Maybe.  Coffman has been solid in practice, but he also goes against 2nd team players.  The advantage Coffman has is he came from a HS offense that required him to read progressions, whereas I don't think it was quite the same or as disciplined for Josh.  They've had great players, but there is a reason Ray-Pac has won 3 state titles in a row, 2 with Carson Coffman.  I'm pleased with how Coffman has played in the spring practices I've seen, I think he's a legit backup, but no way is he in position to challenge Josh for the #1 spot.  Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

[Pete]

so it begins.

let the backup qb love commence.

"Back qb love" SHOULD exist until Freeman can demonstrate consistency.

[Bullfn33]

Freeman will have some growing pains again this year, but you can take to the bank that by his JR season he will be ready to lead his team to a North Division title and maybe a Big 12 title.  Of course, this is assuming the Oline steadily improves over the next two seasons. 

Like everyone else is saying, don't worry about Josh, worry about who we have around him.  Those are his limitations right now.     

[FBWillie]

Freeman will have some growing pains again this year, but you can take to the bank that by his JR season he will be ready to lead his team to a North Division title and maybe a Big 12 title.  Of course, this is assuming the Oline steadily improves over the next two seasons. 

Like everyone else is saying, don't worry about Josh, worry about who we have around him.  Those are his limitations right now.     

If he can't handle his arrogance, that could also hurt him.... I'd be surprised if he put in the studying effort for ku that he did for the texas game.

[PoetWarrior]

When he is a first round pick in 2010, it will be fun to look back on this thread.

Hopefully someone will remember.

[PoetWarrior]

Similar.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=29747

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=7844

[chum1]

God woke up one day envisioned the perfect football offense being ran by the perfect quarterback.  Later that day, Ron Prince was named head coach at Kansas State and his first order of business was to phone Josh Freeman.  Such perfection comes only directly from the perfect being.

[coitus]

russel's stats his first year under center:

played in 11 games, five starts
completed 73 of 144 (51%) for 1,053 yards and 9 tds versus 4 interceptions.