Date: 24/07/25 - 19:37 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: How good is Freeman going to get?  (Read 6952 times)

April 22, 2007, 02:18:22 AM
Reply #60

atrain13

  • Guest
Wow you fans are crazy.  Josh had a great game vs. Nebraska last year.......yeah thats right. He sure did. :rolleyes:  He's going to win the Big 12 before he's done :lol:
Oh, and blame the O-line on how they went from man to zone blocking. 

What a joke.  He will never have the supporting cast to win the Big 12.  MAYBE once in his 4 years he'll win the north,  but even then I highly doubt it.

It's always fun listening to ksu fans dream of the future being good again.   You're team isn't bringing in the talent to win the north,  yet along the Big 12.   Yes, I hate ksu and the constant bitching you stupid fans do EVERY SINGLE YEAR about something or another.  Thats the joy I get for living in this pos town called manhattan.  But, in the next 3 seasons, ksu just won't have what it takes.  nothing against josh, he's going to be a good qb, but you can't compare him to VY or russell.  Doing so is a joke.  Just like everyone who says he's going to be great.  It's just a joke.

April 22, 2007, 02:58:26 AM
Reply #61

GoldbrickGangBoss

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2590
  • Personal Text
    THE b IS NOT CAPITALIZED
Prince's job has to be in more serious danger before he holds Freeman accountable for his mistakes.

So, about mid-season.
I'm telling you, this is not ANYTHING like the team from the beginning of conference play. You will see no more blowouts like what happened in OOC.  If we lose, it will not because these kids gave up, and it will be at the buzzer. -Rodless, before 97-70

April 22, 2007, 08:31:09 AM
Reply #62

Jeffrey_Martin

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3901
Post-Spring-Game bump.

Thank you, Levi. Was about to do the same...

No accountability for Freeman. None.

From the coaching staff, or from the fans?

I think you'll start seeing it from the fans.   I remarked in another thread that after today, we'll probably be seeing Coffman cleaning out his locker in a week or two.  That was tongue in cheek, though.

I wasn't at the game today, so I can't seriously comment on the performance there.  I wish I could come out now and say one way or the other whether I think the Prince/Freeman Project will be a success or a failure--and I think in many ways the success of one hinges on the other--but I can't get a read on this thing, at all.  It's quite possible that Prince is an egomaniacal, insecure, young head coach in over his head who's going to finish what Snyder started in terms of letting this thing just run all the way downhill, and Freeman will give him a huge assist because if his primary receiver doesn't beat his man, he'll throw it to the defense.  Or it could be that Prince is making the necessary changes in a program that needed a jolt, and Freeman is the young guy with the tools that's going to lead to great things in 2008 and 2009.  Or Prince may be merely adequate, and Josh as well, leading us to about a .500 record every year.  I just haven't seen a big enough sample size yet to tell.

In all honesty, one of the most accurate takes on this entire situation. Well done, sir. I don't think anyone knows how any of this is going to play out, the main players included.

April 22, 2007, 08:43:10 AM
Reply #63

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
"No accountability for Freeman. None."

Explain.

April 22, 2007, 08:51:19 AM
Reply #64

Jeffrey_Martin

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3901
Every time Freeman performs horribly, Prince always bails him out. But it can't play both ways. You can't constantly defend him because "he's only a sophomore" because the head coach made this situation what it is. He didn't have to play Freeman last year, but he chose to because he felt he was the best man for the job. He's the quarterback, period. According to Prince, it's the most dynamic position on the field. When the quarterback doesn't play well - zero yards of offense for the Purple? C'mon, that's terrible - the coach should be able to say as much. Instead, Prince just lets it fade away. Remember last year against ku? Freeman was responsible for six turnovers, and Prince said - with a straight face, no less - that he, the head coach, was responsible for the direction the ball went. He basically said Josh throwing three interceptions and fumbling three times was the fault of a man standing on the sidelines with a headset on his head, not the touted freshman recruit who short-armed passes and locked in on receivers. Freeman is being coddled, and I'm not certain that's the best way to handle this situation. But I'm not a second-year head coach, so I'll step down from my soapbox now.

April 22, 2007, 09:04:33 AM
Reply #65

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
Great point about Prince coddling Freeman.  It really can't be denied - he does it big time.  I'm now looking forward to post-game press conferences this year!  My take has always been that Prince and Freeman will both fail simply because the odds are that they will.  No real innovative insight there, but something you can't ignore either.

April 22, 2007, 09:05:50 AM
Reply #66

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
After Chad May was humiliated by Boston College in the Aloha Bowl, Bill Snyder took all the blame exactly as Prince did after the ku game. If you don't remember, May completely lost his composure and played horribly, just as Freeman did against ku. If the coach blames the player after a game like that, fans and journalists point the finger at the coach and say they should make their criticisms of the player in private. If the coach takes the blame, fans and journalists respond as you just did.

So, it's a no-win situation.

After Freeman's first INT, Wyatt or Stanbot asked Prince what had happened, and Prince said Freeman felt the pressure from the DE, skipped a progression, and threw a pass he shouldn't have thrown. He said these were exactly the types of mistakes they had worked on a lot and were attempting to eliminate from Josh's game.

Are you suggesting that Prince should've blasted Freeman to the press after the game? or perhaps that Prince and Franklin aren't trying to correct Freeman's mistakes b/c they just think he's a god or something and leave him to do as he pleases? Would accountability be naming Coffman the starting QB in the post-game press conference? What exactly do you want?

April 22, 2007, 09:25:01 AM
Reply #67

Jeffrey_Martin

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3901
I'm not going to argue with you. All I'm going to say is K-State's starting quarterback for the 2007 season led an offense yesterday that produced ZERO yards. That's embarrassing. You can talk all you want about the supporting cast and the pressure he was under, but I'm not buying it. There is a difference between blasting a player and pointing out a player needs to improve certain things. No, Carson shouldn't start, but you know what? He knows where to go with the ball, and if K-State is going to play this dink-and-dunk offense, you don't exactly need a QB with a big arm. Accuracy is more preferable. As for the May comments, I'm guessing Chad May had a little larger body of work, which is why he probably deserved Snyder coming to his defense.

April 22, 2007, 09:30:38 AM
Reply #68

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
Prince on Freeman: "He came out and didn't play well, and that's how it goes. He's going to work hard. He's a proud young man and would like to play better, but the results are the results."

Prince = coddler

April 22, 2007, 09:39:11 AM
Reply #69

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
Prince on Freeman: "He came out and didn't play well, and that's how it goes. He's going to work hard. He's a proud young man and would like to play better, but the results are the results."

Prince = coddler

He's excusing Freeman's poor play by saying that he just had a bad day.  The question is about how long Prince will continue to give excuses on his behalf and refrain from saying that Freeman isn't performing well enough.

How bad would things have to get before Prince benches Freeman?  Pretty bad, for sure, but just how bad?  Four total wins this year followed by an 0-3 start next year?

April 22, 2007, 09:44:14 AM
Reply #70

catzacker

  • Junior Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 8304
  • Personal Text
    Fear the Brick
I'll be curious to see what happens after the Auburn game.  We're going to get absolutely destroyed and Turnover Machine is going to look horrible.  The o-line, although it was missing a few "starters" - but then again when isn' it - has once again showed that it is absolutely horrible and has made zero progress.  And J-Mart is right; if we're not going to get vertical which we haven't in the past 3 games, then Turnover Machine really isn't being used properly.   I realize that it was just  a spring game, but for the past 3 outings we've dinked and dunked it around the field.  

April 22, 2007, 10:03:50 AM
Reply #71

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
Agreed. Realistically, we probably won't have anyone who can play better than Zach Lucas at tackle, so our QB must learn to wear the opposing team's best DE like a mink coat and still manage to throw accurately 30-50 yards downfield to a wideout on the 3-count. If Prince continues to coddle Josh and not directly blame him for failing to accomplish this, it will indeed be a LONG season! Deep down, Prince has to know that his job will hinge on winning, so I'd be willing to bet that eventually he will insert Coffman into the lineup. At that point, we can all form a circle and jerk off each other while chanting "TOLD YA! TOLD YA"

April 22, 2007, 10:35:25 AM
Reply #72

catzacker

  • Junior Wildcat

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 8304
  • Personal Text
    Fear the Brick
Agreed. Realistically, we probably won't have anyone who can play better than Zach Lucas at tackle, so our QB must learn to wear the opposing team's best DE like a mink coat and still manage to throw accurately 30-50 yards downfield to a wideout on the 3-count. If Prince continues to coddle Josh and not directly blame him for failing to accomplish this, it will indeed be a LONG season! Deep down, Prince has to know that his job will hinge on winning, so I'd be willing to bet that eventually he will insert Coffman into the lineup. At that point, we can all form a circle and jerk off each other while chanting "TOLD YA! TOLD YA"

The o-line has sucked for going on 3 years now.  Whether it's Zach Lucas, Spexarth, Stringer, Frieson, Wafford....they've all gotten dominated by the opposing team's DE.  I don't care about coddling, I'd just like to see Freeman not turn the ball over and for Prince to quit blaming everyone else besides the guy throwing the interception or fumbling it.  Yeah, he's getting pressure, so either move out of the pocket or take the sack, don't continuously make the same mistake and throw interceptions.

April 22, 2007, 10:43:38 AM
Reply #73

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
Although all of us here can help the team to win more games by making excuses and rooting harder, the dynamic between Prince's hard-headedness and Freeman's suckiness is an interesting story and worth keeping an eye on.  

April 22, 2007, 10:58:00 AM
Reply #74

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
definitely. Freeman is horrible. Prince is horrible-er. If we're going to suck, let's have some fun with it and ridicule them!

April 22, 2007, 02:03:54 PM
Reply #75

GoldbrickGangBoss

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2590
  • Personal Text
    THE b IS NOT CAPITALIZED
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.
I'm telling you, this is not ANYTHING like the team from the beginning of conference play. You will see no more blowouts like what happened in OOC.  If we lose, it will not because these kids gave up, and it will be at the buzzer. -Rodless, before 97-70

April 22, 2007, 02:17:08 PM
Reply #76

Levi Wolters

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 314
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.

I remember Snyder going public with his unhappiness regarding Darren's fumbling issues in 04.

April 22, 2007, 02:42:20 PM
Reply #77

GoldbrickGangBoss

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2590
  • Personal Text
    THE b IS NOT CAPITALIZED
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.

I remember Snyder going public with his unhappiness regarding Darren's fumbling issues in 04.

Sproles was a senior by then. If it takes that long for Prince to get after Freeman than its too little, too late.
I'm telling you, this is not ANYTHING like the team from the beginning of conference play. You will see no more blowouts like what happened in OOC.  If we lose, it will not because these kids gave up, and it will be at the buzzer. -Rodless, before 97-70

April 22, 2007, 02:48:04 PM
Reply #78

Racquetball_Ninja

  • Guest
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.

That's a bad example Goldie because Sproles produced.  Freeman... not so much.


April 22, 2007, 02:55:34 PM
Reply #79

GoldbrickGangBoss

  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • *

  • 2590
  • Personal Text
    THE b IS NOT CAPITALIZED
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.

That's a bad example Goldie because Sproles produced.  Freeman... not so much.



True. But I remember a lot of team chemistry issues were blamed on the Snyder coddling Sproles issues. He had a different relationship with that one player compared to what he had with everyone else.

I think its similar here only worse because Freeman isn't producing as well.
I'm telling you, this is not ANYTHING like the team from the beginning of conference play. You will see no more blowouts like what happened in OOC.  If we lose, it will not because these kids gave up, and it will be at the buzzer. -Rodless, before 97-70

April 22, 2007, 03:08:18 PM
Reply #80

Racquetball_Ninja

  • Guest
To answer your question JMart, Freeman has peaked and will not be getting any better.  He'll show signs of brilliance but he'll never be the quarterback that everybody (KSU Fans) thought that he would be. 

At this point our coaching staff will refuse to make the replacement and will continue to blame Freeman's poor performance on the O-Line.  Its true, they're not very good but they're not the ones throwing the ball to the guys in the wrong colored jerseys.  You are about to watch the unadulterated melt down of every K-State board in America. 

I guess if we're not going to be a Football or Basketball school we mine as well get a Lacrosse team and see if we can make the news that way. 

April 22, 2007, 05:22:17 PM
Reply #81

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar

April 23, 2007, 09:42:56 AM
Reply #82

FBWillie

  • Classless Cat
  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3541
So just curious... what could Prince have said post game to not be coddling freeman?  Is it too late to revert?  Will he be forever known to be coddling freeman based off of past events?   

I don't really have an opinion either way.  Yes the entire purple squad looked like crap; Freeman looked lost.  I just don't understand why the very same people that were  :love: with Freeman after the UT game were so quick to point out that he wasn't the answer after his horrible performance at ku...   

Shouldn't the post UT game have been, "freeman looked good, but it was just one game" if you're feelings were always that he's not the answer?  Honestly, I think most of us expected a let-down performance at ku; and most people didn't believe we had a chance against Rutgers based off of the talent gap.  I sure as hell didn't believe that the purple squad had a chance Sat. after looking at the rosters.   Why is any of this that big of a surprise?
The comments posted above do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of FBWillie

April 23, 2007, 09:50:29 AM
Reply #83

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
Prince should've said "Josh is a &@#%ing pussy" then pulled out his blackberry and texted him "you just lost your 'ship. &@#% YOU!" Then turn to the media with a smirk, followed by a scowl and a gruff "Coffman is my QB now." Then a nonchalant, slow stride out of the media room.

But nooooooooo, he just made excuses in his usual coddling-fashion.

April 23, 2007, 09:51:59 AM
Reply #84

cireksu

  • Guest
I wonder how the rest of the team feels about the Prince/Freeman relationship.

Like the Snyder/Sproles relationship before that possibly.

I remember Snyder going public with his unhappiness regarding Darren's fumbling issues in 04.

Snyder blamed himself for putting too much on Darren's shoulders when he knew Darren didn't want to do punt returns.

April 23, 2007, 10:06:13 AM
Reply #85

FBWillie

  • Classless Cat
  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3541
So just curious... what could Prince have said post game to not be coddling freeman?  Is it too late to revert?  Will he be forever known to be coddling freeman based off of past events?   


Was asking this as a serious question... 

I personally would have deflected any QB conversation to what a great job Coffman did and reminded everyone that EVERY position is open; then start talking about what kind of impact you hope to recieve from some of the incoming guys.
The comments posted above do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of FBWillie

April 23, 2007, 10:18:02 AM
Reply #86

Poopley

  • Cub

  • Offline

  • 1103
  • Personal Text
    rokkar stokkar
Willie, I think you just answered your own question.

April 23, 2007, 10:38:32 AM
Reply #87

FBWillie

  • Classless Cat
  • Senior Cub

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 3541
I know, but sometimes when you're trying to steer someone in a particular direction you just have to jump out front and lead.
The comments posted above do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of FBWillie

April 23, 2007, 10:47:40 AM
Reply #88

JTKSU

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 7178
  • Personal Text
    Gettin' angried up!!!
I don't see what good publically questioning Freeman after a glorified scrimmage would do.  Seems to me that they can discuss that behind closed doors and focus on the positives stemming from the spring game.  The game was really more of a fan appreciation type celebration than anything, so no need to dwell on negatives four months before we play a game.  Also, I don't really see Prince criticizing his players much to the public anyway, appearantly he is just one of those types of coaches.  Snyder rarely had anything positive to say about players, and Prince rarely has anything negative to say.  Doesn't mean that it is that way in private.

April 23, 2007, 10:49:49 AM
Reply #89

chum1

  • Scout Team Wildcat

  • Offline
  • **

  • 6944
I personally would have...EVERY position is open

You're exactly right.  The coddling issue isn't limited to what Prince says.  Would you believe Prince if he said that?  I wouldn't either.