How good is Freeman going to get?

[SUPERKSUFAN]

God woke up one day envisioned the perfect football offense being ran by the perfect quarterback.  Later that day, Ron Prince was named head coach at Kansas State and his first order of business was to phone Josh Freeman.  Such perfection comes only directly from the perfect being.

 

[Jeffrey_Martin]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

For a true freshman with a horrible o-line I don't think he did all that poorly.  If you count up all the other true freshman who were multiple conference players of the week in a BCS conference, he's in pretty good company.  I think natural maturation will help him immensely in his decision making progression.  I wouldn't read too much into his interceptions thus far in spring practice,  when you constantly mix up your blocking, running and passing games things tend to get a little helter skelter.  If he is still throwing a bunch of picks a couple weeks into the fall practices (after the line-ups become a bit more consistant) I will be more concerned.  BTW- I noticed the last two posts of yours have a decidedly negative tone.  Are you pouting after a tongue lashing from Prince?   

Not pouting at all, but thanks for checking. This initial post wasn't intended to sound negative - the other one definitely was, though. Anyway, I was just wondering what some of K-State's finest fans thought about the star quarterback.

Now I know.

Can I pencil Freeman in for a Heisman and one or two national championships?

[coitus]

just make sure to quote me as 'mr. white' in your article.

[PoetWarrior]

There's no doubt that guys like Young and Russell played on better teams, maybe better than any Freeman will ever play on, but we can hope.

It certainly helps a young quarterback.

You could argue that Freeman had very little help at all as a true freshman.

Thrust into the role, bad o-line, bad receivers, inexperienced running backs, playing from behind, inexperienced new coaches, etc...

[Bullfn33]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

For a true freshman with a horrible o-line I don't think he did all that poorly.  If you count up all the other true freshman who were multiple conference players of the week in a BCS conference, he's in pretty good company.  I think natural maturation will help him immensely in his decision making progression.  I wouldn't read too much into his interceptions thus far in spring practice,  when you constantly mix up your blocking, running and passing games things tend to get a little helter skelter.  If he is still throwing a bunch of picks a couple weeks into the fall practices (after the line-ups become a bit more consistant) I will be more concerned.  BTW- I noticed the last two posts of yours have a decidedly negative tone.  Are you pouting after a tongue lashing from Prince?   

Not pouting at all, but thanks for checking. This initial post wasn't intended to sound negative - the other one definitely was, though. Anyway, I was just wondering what some of K-State's finest fans thought about the star quarterback.

Now I know.

Can I pencil Freeman in for a Heisman and one or two national championships?

Pencil in a Big 12 Championship before he's done. 

[JTKSU]

russel's stats his first year under center:

played in 11 games, five starts
completed 73 of 144 (51%) for 1,053 yards and 9 tds versus 4 interceptions.

Something tells me LSU had a better supporting cast that year.  They were ranked as high as #5 that year, ended up at #16.  Losses to Georgia, Auburn, and Iowa. (Citrus Bowl)

http://www.lsusports.net/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=27811&SPID=2164&DB_OEM_ID=5200&Q_SEASON=2004

[JTKSU]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

For a true freshman with a horrible o-line I don't think he did all that poorly.  If you count up all the other true freshman who were multiple conference players of the week in a BCS conference, he's in pretty good company.  I think natural maturation will help him immensely in his decision making progression.  I wouldn't read too much into his interceptions thus far in spring practice,  when you constantly mix up your blocking, running and passing games things tend to get a little helter skelter.  If he is still throwing a bunch of picks a couple weeks into the fall practices (after the line-ups become a bit more consistant) I will be more concerned.  BTW- I noticed the last two posts of yours have a decidedly negative tone.  Are you pouting after a tongue lashing from Prince?   

Not pouting at all, but thanks for checking. This initial post wasn't intended to sound negative - the other one definitely was, though. Anyway, I was just wondering what some of K-State's finest fans thought about the star quarterback.

Now I know.

Can I pencil Freeman in for a Heisman and one or two national championships?

Now you're just being a smartass.  You remind me of my ol lady when she gets a visit from aunt flo.

[coitus]

russel's stats his first year under center:

played in 11 games, five starts
completed 73 of 144 (51%) for 1,053 yards and 9 tds versus 4 interceptions.

Something tells me LSU had a better supporting cast that year.  They were ranked as high as #5 that year, ended up at #16.  Losses to Georgia, Auburn, and Iowa. (Citrus Bowl)

http://www.lsusports.net/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=27811&SPID=2164&DB_OEM_ID=5200&Q_SEASON=2004

oh, that's pretty unquestionable.

i just don't think you can look at a 6:15 ratio and just blame it on the supporting cast.

josh has a lot to learn about when not to throw the ball.

[ksu_FAN]

russel's stats his first year under center:

played in 11 games, five starts
completed 73 of 144 (51%) for 1,053 yards and 9 tds versus 4 interceptions.

Something tells me LSU had a better supporting cast that year.  They were ranked as high as #5 that year, ended up at #16.  Losses to Georgia, Auburn, and Iowa. (Citrus Bowl)

http://www.lsusports.net/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=27811&SPID=2164&DB_OEM_ID=5200&Q_SEASON=2004

oh, that's pretty unquestionable.

i just don't think you can look at a 6:15 ratio and just blame it on the supporting cast.

josh has a lot to learn about when not to throw the ball.

Agreed.  The offensive line is an issue, no doubt about it.  But Josh's biggest step to take this year IMO is mental.  When to throw the ball, when to take a sack, and reading through his progressions.  IMO his biggest knock this spring has been his inability to consistently read through his progressions quickly enough.  That said, that shouldn't be a huge surprise for a guy really only in his 2nd year of a true progression offense.  If he masters that this year, he will be aweful tough.

[coitus]

j-mart:  listen to ksu_fan.  ignore the others on this topic.

[TTownCatFan]

i have talked to a source on the inside of the situation....he is the next payton manning

[JTKSU]

russel's stats his first year under center:

played in 11 games, five starts
completed 73 of 144 (51%) for 1,053 yards and 9 tds versus 4 interceptions.

Something tells me LSU had a better supporting cast that year.  They were ranked as high as #5 that year, ended up at #16.  Losses to Georgia, Auburn, and Iowa. (Citrus Bowl)

http://www.lsusports.net/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=27811&SPID=2164&DB_OEM_ID=5200&Q_SEASON=2004

oh, that's pretty unquestionable.

i just don't think you can look at a 6:15 ratio and just blame it on the supporting cast.

josh has a lot to learn about when not to throw the ball.

Agreed.  The offensive line is an issue, no doubt about it.  But Josh's biggest step to take this year IMO is mental.  When to throw the ball, when to take a sack, and reading through his progressions.  IMO his biggest knock this spring has been his inability to consistently read through his progressions quickly enough.  That said, that shouldn't be a huge surprise for a guy really only in his 2nd year of a true progression offense.  If he masters that this year, he will be aweful tough.

True, he really would have benefitted from a redshirt year.  If he had a full season to do nothing but learn the system, he would be much more dangerous coming into this year.

[SUPERKSUFAN]

i have talked to a source on the inside of the situation....he is the next payton manning

including the laser rocket arm?  - if you are in to that type of thing...LOL

[turbowildcat]

When the offensive line was good, Freeman was nearly unstoppable, CU, Texas, OSU.  When it was bad he was bad.

I felt one of Freeman's best games was against NU, Freeman was running away from those husker linebackers like nothing. Still you don't want to be running all the time. Freeman almost won that game, but our line played their worst and eventually it cost us in the end. Freeman doesn't need an amazing offensive line, he just needs some solid tackles, hopefully Alesna Alesana and someone else will provide this. Heck he beat Texas, with the help of Figurs.

[coitus]

freeman was helped tremendously by Prince in the win over texas.

those calls were just mind blowing.

in 10 years we'll still be talking about that crap.

[catzacker]

Freeman just needs to quit turning the ball over.  He'll be a remarkably "better" QB if he does so.  It's that simple.  The offensive line, while terrible, didn't cause alot of his turnovers.  He threw some terrible balls and put some balls on the ground that were all on him.  

[JTKSU]

Freeman just needs to quit turning the ball over.  He'll be a remarkably "better" QB if he does so.  It's that simple.  The offensive line, while terrible, didn't cause alot of his turnovers.  He threw some terrible balls and put some balls on the ground that were all on him.  

The more you get hit, the higher the odds of a fumble.  The less amount of time you have to get a pass off, the greater the odds of a poor decision/inaccurate throw.  David Carr looked great in college with a good offense around him, not so much in Houston.  I tend to think Carr would have been a much better QB if he had ended up elsewhere.

[ksu_FAN]

Freeman just needs to quit turning the ball over.  He'll be a remarkably "better" QB if he does so.  It's that simple.  The offensive line, while terrible, didn't cause alot of his turnovers.  He threw some terrible balls and put some balls on the ground that were all on him.  

The more you get hit, the higher the odds of a fumble.  The less amount of time you have to get a pass off, the greater the odds of a poor decision/inaccurate throw.  David Carr looked great in college with a good offense around him, not so much in Houston.  I tend to think Carr would have been a much better QB if he had ended up elsewhere.

While that is true, sometimes Freeman took too long to go through his progression, and he's done the same some this spring.  Yes, the OL isn't great, but he's got to do his part and get the ball out in a decent amount of time as well.

[Bullfn33]

Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that Freeman, while highly touted, was a god damn TRUE freshman who didn't start getting significant reps until the last half of fall camp.  True freshman, no matter how good are going to make dumb throws and poor decisions, even if they play for USC.

Ell Roberson was a SO in 2001.  Remember how downright terrible he looked at times?  Remember those comments in the forum on a daily basis calling him Ell Overthrowberson?  He had the physical tools, he just needed time to mature.

[Legore]

And I'm asking this question in all seriousness.

I just looked at his numbers from last year, and they were awful. I understand the notion of him improving from his freshman season, but how much? Are we convinced that Prince and Franklin can help him improve? And aren't defenses now gearing up to stop him?

Honestly, I'm just asking questions here. Discuss...

The first thing you have to do with Josh's stats is throw out the games he didn't start.  He threw a pic against FAU about 3 in the second half vs. Baylor and I think 1 vs Louisville in mop up.   None of those games are good indicators of how he played once he was the starter and once he got starters reps in practice.  

Then when you break down just his starts you see Josh was lights out at home last year.  In the games he started in Manhattan; vs Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Nebraska, and Texas we went 3-1 and three of those four teams were bowl teams.  Josh played well in all of those games even in the loss to NU he was making plays under crazy pressure the one pic he threw was a hail marry on the last play of the game.  He was herioic down the stretch against OSU and he played pretty darn well against a talented Texas team in a big spot light.  

So when you talk about him being awful last year it was basically away from home mainly against MU, ku, and Rutgers with the one strong peformance at CU being the anamoly.  If you further break down those games especially the MU and ku games he got off to good starts in both games but once he made a mistake or too he lost composure and things snowballed on him.  In the CU game he never made a mistake and he was able to play well for the entire game.  So more then anything Josh needs to learn to keep his composure under pressure in a hostile enriroment and learn to bounce back from mistakes.  To me those are things that come with age and experience.  Not many QB's are going to play well as true freshman on the road in the big 12 not many are even put into that situation.   Obviously he can play at a high level statistically ku and MU were two of the weaker defenses we faced last year so it wasn't about what they were doing it was more about Josh handling the situation.    

[pufizzle]

Ell vs. OU in 2001  



Similar to Freeman vs. Texas?  Actually, Roberson pretty much put the team on his shoulders in the OU game in '01.  Freeman benefited from everyone making plays and a great gameplan.

[coitus]

Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that Freeman, while highly touted, was a god damn TRUE freshman who didn't start getting significant reps until the last half of fall camp.  True freshman, no matter how good are going to make dumb throws and poor decisions, even if they play for USC.

Ell Roberson was a SO in 2001.  Remember how downright terrible he looked at times?  Remember those comments in the forum on a daily basis calling him Ell Overthrowberson?  He had the physical tools, he just needed time to mature.

folks remembered it, but during the developmental regression otherwise known as the texas bowl, folks figured he had forgotten all that he learned during the freshman season.

if he had not melted down during the texas bowl, and ended on at least a decent note, you likely wouldn't be hearing the same tenor.

[plaincat killed himself]

I think you have to look at the good things he did and assume that he will do more of that as he gets older.  When Josh was good last year (CU & UT), he was amazingly good.

[SkyWalkJUSTforFUN]

Matters with O-Line giving Josh enough time and WR's getting open and being playmakers. We know Josh has the potential to get it there.

[Bullfn33]

Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that Freeman, while highly touted, was a god damn TRUE freshman who didn't start getting significant reps until the last half of fall camp.  True freshman, no matter how good are going to make dumb throws and poor decisions, even if they play for USC.

Ell Roberson was a SO in 2001.  Remember how downright terrible he looked at times?  Remember those comments in the forum on a daily basis calling him Ell Overthrowberson?  He had the physical tools, he just needed time to mature.

folks remembered it, but during the developmental regression otherwise known as the texas bowl, folks figured he had forgotten all that he learned during the freshman season.

if he had not melted down during the texas bowl, and ended on at least a decent note, you likely wouldn't be hearing the same tenor.

The Texas Bowl had nothing to do with JF regressing and everything to do with one team physically dominating the trenches of another team on both sides.  We had no running game whatsoever.  Freeman had no chance to be successful that day.

[kougar24]

It's not surprising for a true frosh QB, who's used to raping puny high school defenses at will, to come into the college game and force throws that result in picks. They're the same throws he made successfully a year ago, but the defenses just upgraded a ton.

Just a matter of patience with the learning curve.

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

The really bad games were either a product of really poor game planning and in game coaching by the KSU staff-see ku game.   

So the coaching staff made him turn it over 6 times?

[Levi Wolters]

Post-Spring-Game bump.

[Snyderfanatic]

Legit question considering the fact Freeman really did not have to bust his butt to become a starter and seems to have free reign to make mistakes without Prince hammering him. A given in the great days of KSU Football were the QB's always progressed under Coach Snyder and all guys gave all out effort, all the time. The improvement Freeman displays in 2007 will directly reflect how good or bad the KSU offensive coaches are.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

Post-Spring-Game bump.

Thank you, Levi. Was about to do the same...

No accountability for Freeman. None.