Out JYCed in pretty much every phase.

[Cire]

WE win really easily with CK in the game.

[AppleJack]

Do they watch tape in basketball? The only thing that really bugs me is its the same exact crap over and over game after game and it isnt getting better.

[Panjandrum]

[miniturnoutthelights]
I suppose the frustration with this one is b/c of the optimist in me.  Even with the disappointment of the OOC, I still had some pretty solid hope (silly, I know) that Frank would get things fixed over break and the great season we were expecting was going to happen.  Maybe not win the league, but contend for the league at least well into February and finish with 3 or 4 losses.  Today its pretty clear that is highly unlikely; please forgive my blind optimism for still thinking it was possible. 

This team likely will do some of the things Frank's teams do; win games we don't expect and lose games we don't expect.  It will could still finish 9-7ish in the league and be a 8/9 seed or something and still make the tournament.  I'd say that is probably even likely. In most years that would be a pretty good season for a K-State basketball fan, but after Elite 8/#3/Preseason Big 12 Champs/etc., even for me it will be disappointing. 
[/miniturnoutthelights]

At this point, I just want to go to the tournament, that's all.

[Dugout DickStone]

[miniturnoutthelights]
I suppose the frustration with this one is b/c of the optimist in me.  Even with the disappointment of the OOC, I still had some pretty solid hope (silly, I know) that Frank would get things fixed over break and the great season we were expecting was going to happen.  Maybe not win the league, but contend for the league at least well into February and finish with 3 or 4 losses.  Today its pretty clear that is highly unlikely; please forgive my blind optimism for still thinking it was possible. 

This team likely will do some of the things Frank's teams do; win games we don't expect and lose games we don't expect.  It will could still finish 9-7ish in the league and be a 8/9 seed or something and still make the tournament.  I'd say that is probably even likely. In most years that would be a pretty good season for a K-State basketball fan, but after Elite 8/#3/Preseason Big 12 Champs/etc., even for me it will be disappointing. 
[/miniturnoutthelights]

At this point, I just want to go to the tournament, that's all.

I'm holding out for a no thursday Phillip 66.

[Benja]

[miniturnoutthelights]
I suppose the frustration with this one is b/c of the optimist in me.  Even with the disappointment of the OOC, I still had some pretty solid hope (silly, I know) that Frank would get things fixed over break and the great season we were expecting was going to happen.  Maybe not win the league, but contend for the league at least well into February and finish with 3 or 4 losses.  Today its pretty clear that is highly unlikely; please forgive my blind optimism for still thinking it was possible. 

This team likely will do some of the things Frank's teams do; win games we don't expect and lose games we don't expect.  It will could still finish 9-7ish in the league and be a 8/9 seed or something and still make the tournament.  I'd say that is probably even likely. In most years that would be a pretty good season for a K-State basketball fan, but after Elite 8/#3/Preseason Big 12 Champs/etc., even for me it will be disappointing. 
[/miniturnoutthelights]

At this point, I just want to go to the tournament, that's all.

I'm holding out for a no thursday Phillip 66.

We could finish fourth. Could finish sixth too. Or fifth.

[MakeItRain]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times.  

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable.  

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but I'm surprised at you _fan. This was a bad performance for sure but did you really expect us to win this one? Understandable loss to me, all factors considered. This is nowhere near a top five team, obviously, and at times an incredibly hard team to watch, but a tournament team? Sure. We'll still win plenty of conference games. This team, at this point in the season was not ready to win this kind of game, and I never really expected a win going in.

I expected a win. OSU is okay, but probably an NIT level team. I think a tournament team wins that game, let alone a top 5 team.

There is a lot of crazy in this thread, I'm going to isolate this one to unload on several issues in this thread.

You are absolutely out of your mind and shame on every single person who read this and didn't challenge it.  There wasn't a single team in the country last year that didn't lose a game just like this.  KU, the number 1 team in the country going into the tourney, lost two games to opponents like this including OSU.  Duke, the national champions lost two games like this last year.  Hell nearly a third of the top 25 lost games just like this over the weekend. 

I'm completely lost on the line of thinking here, if we have the deficiencies you think we have what made you EXPECT to roll into a place that no one wins at and get a win   Including Saturday's game OSU is 63-18 in home conference games since 2001.  Since the Big 12 formed OSU has averaged a 4th place finish while winning the conference only once, they are consistently a good conference team.  How can you think we are good enough to expect a win before the game and then two hours later question whether or not K-State is a tournament team?  You cannot expect to win this game, they aren't OU, Tech, Depaul, or Auburn.


Now to the game itself, it seems to me that this game just shined a bright light on the issues that we already know about.  The guards don't create enough, the bigs turn the ball over way too much, and we need a third scorer.  I have no idea how anyone could utter anything about rebounding, we beat them in any rebounding stat you mention with every big we had fouling out with significant time left in the game.  Also lots of posts on the board about effort, how do you not play hard but commit 31 fouls?  I'm not bent out of shape by the massive amount of points we gave up the last 10 minutes because I don't necessarily think is is directly attributable to horrible defense, but to free throws and AWFUL offense.  If you are not scoring and turning the ball over you are going to give up points.  I agree with Cire, Curtis Kelly wins us this game, but he wasn't there and all of the bigs have to be better.  They were supposed to be a strength and right now they are an albatross.

For the long term prognosis.  If this week doesn't yield two wins, then I will hit the   I think by 7PM next Monday we will be 2-2 in conference but I think this conference is going to beat the hell out of each other this year.  I like somewhere around 10-6, but I have to run the bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.

[felix rex]

 

[kso_FAN]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times. 

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable. 

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but I'm surprised at you _fan. This was a bad performance for sure but did you really expect us to win this one? Understandable loss to me, all factors considered. This is nowhere near a top five team, obviously, and at times an incredibly hard team to watch, but a tournament team? Sure. We'll still win plenty of conference games. This team, at this point in the season was not ready to win this kind of game, and I never really expected a win going in.

I expected a win. OSU is okay, but probably an NIT level team. I think a tournament team wins that game, let alone a top 5 team.

There is a lot of crazy in this thread, I'm going to isolate this one to unload on several issues in this thread.

You are absolutely out of your mind and shame on every single person who read this and didn't challenge it.  There wasn't a single team in the country last year that didn't lose a game just like this.  KU, the number 1 team in the country going into the tourney, lost two games to opponents like this including OSU.  Duke, the national champions lost two games like this last year.  Hell nearly a third of the top 25 lost games just like this over the weekend. 

I'm completely lost on the line of thinking here, if we have the deficiencies you think we have what made you EXPECT to roll into a place that no one wins at and get a win   Including Saturday's game OSU is 63-18 in home conference games since 2001.  Since the Big 12 formed OSU has averaged a 4th place finish while winning the conference only once, they are consistently a good conference team.  How can you think we are good enough to expect a win before the game and then two hours later question whether or not K-State is a tournament team?  You cannot expect to win this game, they aren't OU, Tech, Depaul, or Auburn.


Now to the game itself, it seems to me that this game just shined a bright light on the issues that we already know about.  The guards don't create enough, the bigs turn the ball over way too much, and we need a third scorer.  I have no idea how anyone could utter anything about rebounding, we beat them in any rebounding stat you mention with every big we had fouling out with significant time left in the game.  Also lots of posts on the board about effort, how do you not play hard but commit 31 fouls?  I'm not bent out of shape by the massive amount of points we gave up the last 10 minutes because I don't necessarily think is is directly attributable to horrible defense, but to free throws and AWFUL offense.  If you are not scoring and turning the ball over you are going to give up points.  I agree with Cire, Curtis Kelly wins us this game, but he wasn't there and all of the bigs have to be better.  They were supposed to be a strength and right now they are an albatross.

For the long term prognosis.  If this week doesn't yield two wins, then I will hit the   I think by 7PM next Monday we will be 2-2 in conference but I think this conference is going to beat the hell out of each other this year.  I like somewhere around 10-6, but I have to run the bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.

Like I said, I'm often a ridiculous optimist. 

[catzacker]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times.  

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable.  

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but I'm surprised at you _fan. This was a bad performance for sure but did you really expect us to win this one? Understandable loss to me, all factors considered. This is nowhere near a top five team, obviously, and at times an incredibly hard team to watch, but a tournament team? Sure. We'll still win plenty of conference games. This team, at this point in the season was not ready to win this kind of game, and I never really expected a win going in.

I expected a win. OSU is okay, but probably an NIT level team. I think a tournament team wins that game, let alone a top 5 team.

There is a lot of crazy in this thread, I'm going to isolate this one to unload on several issues in this thread.

You are absolutely out of your mind and shame on every single person who read this and didn't challenge it.  There wasn't a single team in the country last year that didn't lose a game just like this.  KU, the number 1 team in the country going into the tourney, lost two games to opponents like this including OSU.  Duke, the national champions lost two games like this last year.  Hell nearly a third of the top 25 lost games just like this over the weekend. 

I'm completely lost on the line of thinking here, if we have the deficiencies you think we have what made you EXPECT to roll into a place that no one wins at and get a win   Including Saturday's game OSU is 63-18 in home conference games since 2001.  Since the Big 12 formed OSU has averaged a 4th place finish while winning the conference only once, they are consistently a good conference team.  How can you think we are good enough to expect a win before the game and then two hours later question whether or not K-State is a tournament team?  You cannot expect to win this game, they aren't OU, Tech, Depaul, or Auburn.


Now to the game itself, it seems to me that this game just shined a bright light on the issues that we already know about.  The guards don't create enough, the bigs turn the ball over way too much, and we need a third scorer.  I have no idea how anyone could utter anything about rebounding, we beat them in any rebounding stat you mention with every big we had fouling out with significant time left in the game.  Also lots of posts on the board about effort, how do you not play hard but commit 31 fouls?  I'm not bent out of shape by the massive amount of points we gave up the last 10 minutes because I don't necessarily think is is directly attributable to horrible defense, but to free throws and AWFUL offense.  If you are not scoring and turning the ball over you are going to give up points.  I agree with Cire, Curtis Kelly wins us this game, but he wasn't there and all of the bigs have to be better.  They were supposed to be a strength and right now they are an albatross.

For the long term prognosis.  If this week doesn't yield two wins, then I will hit the   I think by 7PM next Monday we will be 2-2 in conference but I think this conference is going to beat the hell out of each other this year.  I like somewhere around 10-6, but I have to run the bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.

Any game, when looked at in isolation, can be washed away.  When you consider how this team has played in most of its wins and all of its losses, then it becomes time to re-evaluate whether it’s a nit or a ncaa team.  I don’t just dismiss curtis not being there, as I haven’t when he or jamar wasn’t there early in the year.  Their absences is an issue with this team and directly relates to how its played and will play.  We’re halfway through the season right now.  Our offense has to work for most everything because this team isn’t good in transition.  Our bigs are weak with the basketball and defending it.  McGruds is our most consistent player, which in my mind, makes him our best player.  But these aren’t just things that occurred in one basketball game.  We should have had higher expectations than 10-6, which, imo, is now the ceiling for this team. 

[kougar24]

Didn't both Kelly and Pullen play in Florida?

Yeah.

[EllToPay]

10-6. Have never wavered.

2-1 going into MU with CK back. Talk to me after that game.

[felix rex]

I'm gonna be really pissed if we lose to Nebraska. That would hurt.

[kso_FAN]

bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.
Any game, when looked at in isolation, can be washed away.  When you consider how this team has played in most of its wins and all of its losses, then it becomes time to re-evaluate whether it’s a nit or a ncaa team.  I don’t just dismiss curtis not being there, as I haven’t when he or jamar wasn’t there early in the year.  Their absences is an issue with this team and directly relates to how its played and will play.  We’re halfway through the season right now.  Our offense has to work for most everything because this team isn’t good in transition.  Our bigs are weak with the basketball and defending it.  McGruds is our most consistent player, which in my mind, makes him our best player.  But these aren’t just things that occurred in one basketball game.  We should have had higher expectations than 10-6, which, imo, is now the ceiling for this team. 

Well said.

[michigancat]

We should have had higher expectations than 10-6,

why?  Not saying you're wrong, just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

[pissclams]

bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.
Any game, when looked at in isolation, can be washed away.  When you consider how this team has played in most of its wins and all of its losses, then it becomes time to re-evaluate whether it’s a nit or a ncaa team.  I don’t just dismiss curtis not being there, as I haven’t when he or jamar wasn’t there early in the year.  Their absences is an issue with this team and directly relates to how its played and will play.  We’re halfway through the season right now.  Our offense has to work for most everything because this team isn’t good in transition.  Our bigs are weak with the basketball and defending it.  McGruds is our most consistent player, which in my mind, makes him our best player.  But these aren’t just things that occurred in one basketball game.  We should have had higher expectations than 10-6, which, imo, is now the ceiling for this team.  

Well said.

kind of.
i disagree though that this team isn't good in transition.  i  think they're best in transition, we struggle in the half court.

[kougar24]

bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.
Any game, when looked at in isolation, can be washed away.  When you consider how this team has played in most of its wins and all of its losses, then it becomes time to re-evaluate whether it’s a nit or a ncaa team.  I don’t just dismiss curtis not being there, as I haven’t when he or jamar wasn’t there early in the year.  Their absences is an issue with this team and directly relates to how its played and will play.  We’re halfway through the season right now.  Our offense has to work for most everything because this team isn’t good in transition.  Our bigs are weak with the basketball and defending it.  McGruds is our most consistent player, which in my mind, makes him our best player.  But these aren’t just things that occurred in one basketball game.  We should have had higher expectations than 10-6, which, imo, is now the ceiling for this team. 

Well said.

kind of.
i disagree though that this team isn't good in transition.  i  think they're best in transition, we struggle in the half court.

So they're good in transition, but terrible in getting into transition situations. Good clarification p'clams.

[catzacker]

We should have had higher expectations than 10-6,

why?  Not saying you're wrong, just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

I expected Curtis to..well…play in more than about half of our games thus far.  I expected Jamar to gain some consistency….I expected asprilla to be better…I expected wally to make the improvement (or similar improvement) that Mcgruds has…I expected us to be better in transition….I expected us to be more mature (our juniors and seniors haven’t performed/played/lead like jr’s and sr’s)  and if I or anyone expected that, then the expectation that 10-6 should be closer to the floor than the ceiling is not unreasonable.  We’ve somehow gotten worse.  

[Rage Against the McKee]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times. 

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable. 

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

I need to go back but I called this years kats last years tejas. They will fly high early and fall very very far.

Im sorry, just telling you guys what I see in the magic crystal bally thing.

Last year's Texas was ranked #1 at this point in the season, so I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard with that prediction.

[MakeItRain]

Any game, when looked at in isolation, can be washed away.  When you consider how this team has played in most of its wins and all of its losses, then it becomes time to re-evaluate whether it’s a nit or a ncaa team.  I don’t just dismiss curtis not being there, as I haven’t when he or jamar wasn’t there early in the year.  Their absences is an issue with this team and directly relates to how its played and will play.  We’re halfway through the season right now.  Our offense has to work for most everything because this team isn’t good in transition.  Our bigs are weak with the basketball and defending it.  McGruds is our most consistent player, which in my mind, makes him our best player.  But these aren’t just things that occurred in one basketball game.  We should have had higher expectations than 10-6, which, imo, is now the ceiling for this team. 

I have no problem with the larger point that you are trying to make here.  Coming into the season I said IMO for the season to be considered successful the team needed to either win the regular season title, the conference title, or make it to the final four.  I don't think it could ever be considered a success when you don't win a trophy the previous year and then take a step back.

I do disagree with your assertion that we are bad in transition and that Rodney is the most consistent and therefore the best player.  We are awful in the half court, it isn't the transition where we are bed right now, I'd rather point to the secondary break as our glaring weakness, but that can be corrected by better outside shooting.

Jake leads the team in points, assists, and steals.  Rodney averages nearly six points fewer per game.  Be disappointed in Jake I guess, but don't be tarded.  One guy averages 11 PPG the other 17 PPG and the guy who averages 11 is the better/more consistent player

[MakeItRain]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times. 

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable. 

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

I need to go back but I called this years kats last years tejas. They will fly high early and fall very very far.

Im sorry, just telling you guys what I see in the magic crystal bally thing.

Last year's Texas was ranked #1 at this point in the season, so I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard with that prediction.

You can make a compelling argument that Kansas may be "this year's Texas." Half of the conference is siginificantly better than UCLA, Arizona, USC, Memphis, and Michigan.  Will easily be Self's best coaching job if they don't lose at least 4 conference games this year.

[michigancat]

We should have had higher expectations than 10-6,

why?  Not saying you're wrong, just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

I expected Curtis to..well…play in more than about half of our games thus far.  I expected Jamar to gain some consistency….I expected asprilla to be better…I expected wally to make the improvement (or similar improvement) that Mcgruds has…I expected us to be better in transition….I expected us to be more mature (our juniors and seniors haven’t performed/played/lead like jr’s and sr’s)  and if I or anyone expected that, then the expectation that 10-6 should be closer to the floor than the ceiling is not unreasonable.  We’ve somehow gotten worse.  

Basically you expected everything to be perfect.  Even with everything not being perfect, I think that with Kelly playing every game we're fine at this point.  I don't think we're league champs, but we probably beat OSU and UNLV.

[catzacker]

We should have had higher expectations than 10-6,

why?  Not saying you're wrong, just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

I expected Curtis to..well…play in more than about half of our games thus far.  I expected Jamar to gain some consistency….I expected asprilla to be better…I expected wally to make the improvement (or similar improvement) that Mcgruds has…I expected us to be better in transition….I expected us to be more mature (our juniors and seniors haven’t performed/played/lead like jr’s and sr’s)  and if I or anyone expected that, then the expectation that 10-6 should be closer to the floor than the ceiling is not unreasonable.  We’ve somehow gotten worse.  

Basically you expected everything to be perfect.  Even with everything not being perfect, I think that with Kelly playing every game we're fine at this point.  I don't think we're league champs, but we probably beat OSU and UNLV.

Hardly.  I expected a natural, reasonable progression from our players.  I admit I might have been Art’d on Asprilla and McGruds is probably more than I could have expected.   I will not fall into the trap that everyone else has by simply dismissing curt’s absence(s). 

[MakeItRain]

Oboards b/c we don't get position.  Foul after foul.  Dumb TOs.  OSU gets to the line 43 times. 

Still, a 49-41 lead with 9:26 left in the game.  Then give up 35 points that last 9 and a half minutes.  Unbelievable. 

Trying to stay positive, but this may not be a tournament team.  And it may get worse before it gets better.

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but I'm surprised at you _fan. This was a bad performance for sure but did you really expect us to win this one? Understandable loss to me, all factors considered. This is nowhere near a top five team, obviously, and at times an incredibly hard team to watch, but a tournament team? Sure. We'll still win plenty of conference games. This team, at this point in the season was not ready to win this kind of game, and I never really expected a win going in.

I expected a win. OSU is okay, but probably an NIT level team. I think a tournament team wins that game, let alone a top 5 team.

There is a lot of crazy in this thread, I'm going to isolate this one to unload on several issues in this thread.

You are absolutely out of your mind and shame on every single person who read this and didn't challenge it.  There wasn't a single team in the country last year that didn't lose a game just like this.  KU, the number 1 team in the country going into the tourney, lost two games to opponents like this including OSU.  Duke, the national champions lost two games like this last year.  Hell nearly a third of the top 25 lost games just like this over the weekend. 

I'm completely lost on the line of thinking here, if we have the deficiencies you think we have what made you EXPECT to roll into a place that no one wins at and get a win   Including Saturday's game OSU is 63-18 in home conference games since 2001.  Since the Big 12 formed OSU has averaged a 4th place finish while winning the conference only once, they are consistently a good conference team.  How can you think we are good enough to expect a win before the game and then two hours later question whether or not K-State is a tournament team?  You cannot expect to win this game, they aren't OU, Tech, Depaul, or Auburn.


Now to the game itself, it seems to me that this game just shined a bright light on the issues that we already know about.  The guards don't create enough, the bigs turn the ball over way too much, and we need a third scorer.  I have no idea how anyone could utter anything about rebounding, we beat them in any rebounding stat you mention with every big we had fouling out with significant time left in the game.  Also lots of posts on the board about effort, how do you not play hard but commit 31 fouls?  I'm not bent out of shape by the massive amount of points we gave up the last 10 minutes because I don't necessarily think is is directly attributable to horrible defense, but to free throws and AWFUL offense.  If you are not scoring and turning the ball over you are going to give up points.  I agree with Cire, Curtis Kelly wins us this game, but he wasn't there and all of the bigs have to be better.  They were supposed to be a strength and right now they are an albatross.

For the long term prognosis.  If this week doesn't yield two wins, then I will hit the   I think by 7PM next Monday we will be 2-2 in conference but I think this conference is going to beat the hell out of each other this year.  I like somewhere around 10-6, but I have to run the bracket generator to get a real feel as to where I think we will be.

Like I said, I'm often a ridiculous optimist. 

In retrospect the long post was unnecessary, someone should have the post.  Really it seems clear that you just confused OSU with OU.  Happens to the best of us.

[kso_FAN]

MIR, let me have a little meltdown once in a while.*

I can't disagree with anything you said.

[MakeItRain]

MIR, let me have a little meltdown once in a while.*

I can't disagree with anything you said.

You're so level headed, and I'm a jackass, so the meltdown surprises me, sorry dude