Author Topic: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC (Read 21356 times)

Panjandrum · « **Reply #100 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:44:10 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 03:43:42 PM

Why did we have to hire Prince? Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?

No, he didn't, and I outlined some of the problems earlier in the thread.

There were two problems in place when the last coaching search occurred that would not presumably be in place in a few years:

1) We do not have a narcissistic megalomaniac University President that likes to play pseudo-AD
2) We will have facilities that are at least on par with many mid-level BCS schools

We hired Prince because that's what Wefald wanted, and what Wefald wanted is what was going to happen. There's not much more to say on that topic because that's just the way things worked then.

This goes beyond wins and losses. If Snyder is around, and he's going to bowls, the likely hood that donors will cough up money for the stadium upgrades and whatever else they have planned (practice facility?) is more likely than hiring a new guy where they may take a wait and see approach.

From the sounds of things, Schulz and Currie are about to go full tilt on a very aggressive stadium renovation, and that's most likely going to require some form of donations. If you're in their position, are you more likely to try and do that after you force out (either by firing or asking him to resign) the guy with his name on said stadium, or are you going to try and do the majority of the fund raising before you do that?

They have attendance numbers higher than they've had in years, they've got the man with his name on the stadium roaming the sidelines, and they're going to bowls. Why would they ever rock the boat when they're planning on embarking on what will probably be the most expensive upgrade in the history of the KSU athletic department?

I get what you're saying, Rusty, I really do. But it's a question of timing. It makes more sense, on a number of levels, to make a move a few years from now. There are way too many unknowns and risks to make a move right now.

michigancat · « **Reply #101 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:52:16 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 04:44:10 PM

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 03:43:42 PM
Why did we have to hire Prince? Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?

No, he didn't, and I outlined some of the problems earlier in the thread.

There were two problems in place when the last coaching search occurred that would not presumably be in place in a few years:

1) We do not have a narcissistic megalomaniac University President that likes to play pseudo-AD
2) We will have facilities that are at least on par with many mid-level BCS schools

We hired Prince because that's what Wefald wanted, and what Wefald wanted is what was going to happen. There's not much more to say on that topic because that's just the way things worked then.

This goes beyond wins and losses. If Snyder is around, and he's going to bowls, the likely hood that donors will cough up money for the stadium upgrades and whatever else they have planned (practice facility?) is more likely than hiring a new guy where they may take a wait and see approach.

From the sounds of things, Schulz and Currie are about to go full tilt on a very aggressive stadium renovation, and that's most likely going to require some form of donations. If you're in their position, are you more likely to try and do that after you force out (either by firing or asking him to resign) the guy with his name on said stadium, or are you going to try and do the majority of the fund raising before you do that?

They have attendance numbers higher than they've had in years, they've got the man with his name on the stadium roaming the sidelines, and they're going to bowls. Why would they ever rock the boat when they're planning on embarking on what will probably be the most expensive upgrade in the history of the KSU athletic department?

I get what you're saying, Rusty, I really do. But it's a question of timing. It makes more sense, on a number of levels, to make a move a few years from now. There are way too many unknowns and risks to make a move right now.

You're just making a series of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to shitty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.

Panjandrum · « **Reply #102 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:06:44 PM »

Quote from: Nuts Kicked on November 23, 2010, 03:53:11 PM

Quote from: jtksu on November 23, 2010, 03:51:45 PM
I have no idea why we hired prince. Guess the binder was very impressive. And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.

You wouldn't have argued that we should let Ron fill all of our open scholarships before we try to find a new coach, would you?

Ron essentially nailed his own coffin when he recruited 18 JUCOs in one class. That was so monumentally stupid on so many different levels that you couldn't trust him with any sort of roster management after that.

Snyder took 14 freshmen and sophomores in last year's class, and even if he doesn't get another commitment in this class, he's looking at 15 this year. I'm assuming he'll recruit another one or two, so he's making the commitment to bringing in prep players. That will help in terms of rebuilding the numbers. It's not enough, but it's a step in the right direction.

So, at this point, I'd argue that we let Snyder worry about filling the classes so long as he continues what he did last year of making a commitment to bring in more prep players with each class and making sure he's bringing in qualifiers.

Panjandrum · « **Reply #103 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:09:15 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 04:52:16 PM

You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.

But removing him now isn't a good idea for all of the reasons I've stated in this thread.

jtksu · « **Reply #104 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:11:24 PM »

The current Pres and AD do give me much more confidence that a coaching search would be handled much better than the last time. I guess it boils down to eventually we're going to have to dive in and hire someone else. Tomorrow or 5 years down the road. Scary proposition, guess I need to just man up and realize it has to be done sooner, rather than later.

michigancat · « **Reply #105 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:43:19 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 05:09:15 PM

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 04:52:16 PM
You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.

By your logic, it will always be less risky to keep him a few more years, even five years from now. By then, it will be, "Snyder's finally got us to 85 scholarships, we can't afford to take a step back." or, "let's not waste these fancy new facilities on an unknown. Give Bill five more years to really build things up". It never stops.

Panjandrum · « **Reply #106 on:** November 23, 2010, 06:44:14 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 05:43:19 PM

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 05:09:15 PM
Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 04:52:16 PM
You're just making a serious of assumptions that boil down to "only Snyder can win at Kansas State". Only Snyder can get us to cacty bowls. Only Snyder can get us donations to get us mid-level BCS facilities. Only snyder can get people to come to games. ONly snyder, blah, blah, blah.

No, I'm not. I'm saying that it's less risky to keep him for a few more years than to start over. I'm more than willing and would prefer to go outside of the Snyder tree when it comes time to hiring a new coach.

By your logic, it will always be less risky to keep him a few more years, even five years from now. By then, it will be, "Snyder's finally got us to 85 scholarships, we can't afford to take a step back." or, "let's not waste these fancy new facilities on an unknown. Give Bill five more years to really build things up". It never stops.

I can see where you would come up with that, but that's not what I think. I think there's a right time and a wrong time. I could come up with a set of criteria where I think it would be appropriate that he step down, but what it really boils down to is two things for me:

1) I'd like for the roster numbers to become a little more balanced, and I'd like to see us with at least 78-80 players on scholarship
2) I'd like for them to have the funding secured for the stadium renovations

My personal feeling is that this will take about three or four years.

We can go around and around on this like we already have, but we both agree that LHC Bill Snyder wasn't our first choice to replace Prince. We both agree that he's not a long-term solution. We also both agree that it's stupid to think only LHC Bill Snyder can win at Kansas State. The only point we differ on is the timing.

michigancat · « **Reply #107 on:** November 23, 2010, 07:00:40 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 06:44:14 PM

I can see where you would come up with that, but that's not what I think. I think there's a right time and a wrong time. I could come up with a set of criteria where I think it would be appropriate that he step down, but what it really boils down to is two things for me:

1) I'd like for the roster numbers to become a little more balanced, and I'd like to see us with at least 78-80 players on scholarship
2) I'd like for them to have the funding secured for the stadium renovations

My point is, what do those two things gain for us that we don't have already? Do they get us a proven BCS head coach? No. Do they get us an elite non BCS coach (Peterson, Patterson, etc.)? No. Once you get past that tier and into BCS assistants and non-elite head coaches, it's somewhat of a crapshoot - you can end up with Gary Pinkel or Bob Stoops, or you could end up with Dan Hawkins.

When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?

Panjandrum · « **Reply #108 on:** November 23, 2010, 07:40:29 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 07:00:40 PM

When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?

That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.

Regardless, Currie isn't going to fire Snyder. He can't, he won't, and if he does, he's just committed career suicide considering the way our fans deify Bill. Snyder has shown no indication that he's going to step down at the end of this year or has any interest in doing so, therefore, if hiring Jim Leavitt makes the team better while he's here, it's a good move. If he is here when Snyder retires, and he's a candidate to be the head coach, we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

michigancat · « **Reply #109 on:** November 23, 2010, 08:22:45 PM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 07:40:29 PM

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 07:00:40 PM
When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?

That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.

Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.

HeinBallz · « **Reply #110 on:** November 23, 2010, 08:28:43 PM »

Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?

Panjandrum · « **Reply #111 on:** November 23, 2010, 08:52:46 PM »

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 08:22:45 PM

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 07:40:29 PM
Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 07:00:40 PM
When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?

That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.

Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.

I'm aware it's a crapshoot, but that's not the point. Gus Mahlzan is my favorite choice out there. I'd love to have him. If we could realistically get him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But that's not going to happen.

Snyder will be here next year. Jim Leavitt will most likely make the defense better. I'm for bringing in Jim Leavitt because I want the football team to get better now. As I said, we'll just have to deal with whatever happens at that time.

slackcat · « **Reply #112 on:** November 23, 2010, 11:30:00 PM »

Quote from: HeinBallz on November 23, 2010, 08:28:43 PM

Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?

Oh hell no, football will be over. OB will be laid out at mid field and the bowl filled with concrete............LHC Bill Snyder Family Stadium now LHC Bill Snyder Family Tomb.

Boakai · « **Reply #113 on:** November 24, 2010, 02:06:22 AM »

Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 08:52:46 PM

Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: Panjandrum on November 23, 2010, 07:40:29 PM
Quote from: michigancat on November 23, 2010, 07:00:40 PM
When these improvements you feel are so necessary get us nothing better when it comes to coaching candidates, why throw away three years of almost guaranteed mediocrity when you can start fresh and build a REAL program that looks beyond a 3 year window?

That's an assumption as well. The one guy you may scare away with your horribly deficient roster may be the right guy.

Jesus Christ. We're talking about the difference between Gus Mahlzan and Brent Venables. It's all a crapshoot at that level. When you hire at the level KSU will hire, sometimes the guy that you think is the ONE GUY ends up going somewhere else and doing worse, while your second or third choice ends up doing a great job.

I'm aware it's a crapshoot, but that's not the point. Gus Mahlzan is my favorite choice out there. I'd love to have him. If we could realistically get him, I'd take him in a heartbeat. But that's not going to happen.

Snyder will be here next year. Jim Leavitt will most likely make the defense better. I'm for bringing in Jim Leavitt because I want the football team to get better now. As I said, we'll just have to deal with whatever happens at that time.

I've read a few posters talk about Malzahn's lack of attainability, but I'm not sold on it. He didn't graduate* from a Div 1 school, so having him pull a Huggs is unlikely. Besides, Arkansas already passed on him for the head job. Kansas puts him closer to his home and in many cases nearer to the recruiting grounds he is most familiar with. Most of his targets and gets have been from Arkansas or Louisiana with Texas and Oklahoma sprinkled in. The guy seems to be a magnet for dual threat QB's, but I don't know if he would be able to retain his effectiveness in that area when faced with the task of running an entire program.

This is a big if, but if Leavitt can get this legal stuff wrapped up ASAP and hasn't damaged his ability to recruit then it is a win/win situation for him to DC here. Improved defense in the short term and plus any potential head coaching change in the future could stand a better chance of inheriting a decent defense.

chum1 · « **Reply #114 on:** November 24, 2010, 06:55:09 AM »

"Leavitt to Snyder"

MadCat · « **Reply #115 on:** November 24, 2010, 08:57:54 AM »

Quote from: slackcat on November 23, 2010, 11:30:00 PM

Quote from: HeinBallz on November 23, 2010, 08:28:43 PM
Do you think this fan base will give anyone a fair shot after bill?

Oh hell no, football will be over. OB will be laid out at mid field and the bowl filled with concrete............LHC Bill Snyder Family Stadium now LHC Bill Snyder Family Tomb.

FWIW, Currie could generate more revenue by leasing BSFS out as mausoleum space.

Dr Rick Daris · « **Reply #116 on:** November 24, 2010, 09:02:19 AM »

i don't want leavitt's grubby little mits anywhere near the fball program. he comes in and improves the defense a little bit and acts all crazy on the sideline and we go to a couple more bowl games and he talks about how great it is to be back in kansas and how much he's learned from LHC Bill Snyder and next thing you know... boom! we're stuck w/ runner up katpak head as our head fball coach. no thanks.

Sugar Dick · « **Reply #117 on:** November 24, 2010, 09:03:37 AM »

You guys know that Leavitt is the plaintiff in his "legal troubles" right????

He's suing the school for wrongful termination (I think...), the complaint was made by him, not against him.

MadCat · « **Reply #118 on:** November 24, 2010, 09:32:55 AM »

Quote from: Sugar Dick on November 24, 2010, 09:03:37 AM

You guys know that Leavitt is the plaintiff in his "legal troubles" right????

He's suing the school for wrongful termination (I think...), the complaint was made by him, not against him.

Kat Kid · « **Reply #119 on:** November 24, 2010, 10:01:59 AM »

Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.

LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.

Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.

Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.

It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.

PandaXpanda · « **Reply #120 on:** November 24, 2010, 10:19:08 AM »

Quote from: Mr. KK on November 24, 2010, 10:01:59 AM

Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.

LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.

Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.

Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.

It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.

o.m.g.

chum1 · « **Reply #121 on:** November 24, 2010, 10:21:38 AM »

i think coach snyder knows a little more about what's best for the football team, the university, and the city than mr. kk does.

jtksu · « **Reply #122 on:** November 24, 2010, 11:19:35 AM »

Wooly and Tan Tom are 2 different people. Lol @ comparing Snyder to either one.

Kat Kid · « **Reply #123 on:** November 24, 2010, 04:57:29 PM »

Wooly had an amazing tan. People made fun of asbury's tan.

EuroCat · « **Reply #124 on:** November 24, 2010, 06:13:11 PM »

Quote from: Mr. KK on November 24, 2010, 10:01:59 AM

Did not want to have to post here because it can only be said so many ways, but apparently people still have convinced themselves that Bill has the magic key.

LHC Bill Snyder has done wonderful things for Kansas State.

Now that my legal disclaimer is out of the way, Snyder needs to gtfo. His "family" is what stands between Kansas State and the future of the program. His nepotistic sense of entitlement will destroy Kansas State on a whim because he puts loyalty to his friends/family above competence/contract/Kansas State.

Snyder has been selfish and self-serving and slathered his folksy Grandpa wisdom that casts a spell over all of Kansas State. And by the way, I really don't care any more about what LHC Bill Snyder thinks he will do to the program if he is forced out. Where there are wins, there are dollars and people will get with the program eve if they go kicking/screaming.

It never ceases to amaze how WOOLY had people going with his hair/tan/southern drawl armed with his transfer/hard luck talking points. LHC Bill Snyder has an arsenal of wizardry and a deep supply of minions to draw upon.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but he needs to go. He is hurting us and we need to move on for his sake and ours.

At first i was like:

Then i was like:

But now i'm: