Author Topic: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC  (Read 21348 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2010, 12:12:48 PM »
so we go from 5 years to a full allotment to 6?  OMG, the horror.  Next thing, you'll tell me we might have to go 2-6 instead of 3-5 for a year.  :ohno:

I get what you're saying, but the next coach is going to have the same problem Prince had (aside from being a horrible coach), and that's fixing Snyder's mess while listening to the entire fan base blame the new guy for all of the problems.

He won't have Snyder undermining him at every opportunity.

We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better.  Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline.  There's too much at stake.

Too much at stake?  Like 8th place in a new Big 12 that Snyder might provide?  I would hate to see that slip away.  :ohno:

Better to be 8th with a decent hire away from something more than becoming Washington State.

Seriously, if we hire a coach with no BCS (or even FBS) experience that was only slightly above average at the FCS level, we'll be Washington State no matter what our scholarship count is.  Being afraid of hiring Paul Wulff is just a dumb reason to keep Bill around for 5 more years.

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2010, 12:34:40 PM »
We're in the middle of a roster rebuild, we've got tens of millions of dollars going into the football stadium (that will probably require some level of donations) that doesn't even have a loose description out in front of the public, and we're headed into a new conference format where the schedule is going to get worse every year instead of better.  Now isn't the time to go out there and hire someone that already has multiple strikes against him before he ever even steps foot on the sideline.  There's too much at stake.

maybe it's just me, but I saw this coach and this coaching staff roster build off 11 win seasons and the result was '04 and '05 and a roster that everyone said would need to be improved when prince got here.  So, NO THANK YOU.

the short answer is that grandpa makes our fan base feel comfortable.  that's it.  he can do no wrong because the majority of our fan base can't think critically about snyder whatsoever. 

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2010, 12:45:52 PM »
Seriously, if we hire a coach with no BCS (or even FBS) experience that was only slightly above average at the FCS level, we'll be Washington State no matter what our scholarship count is.  Being afraid of hiring Paul Wulff is just a dumb reason to keep Bill around for 5 more years.

That's not what I'm saying.  You can go take that chance in a few years.  Don't take that chance right now.

I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls.  Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.

But our chances will be better if (A) we have a roster that's not lacking 15 scholarship players, (B) we've just completed a massive stadium/facilities upgrade, and (C) we've gone to a few bowls in the past few seasons.  A decent coach can look at that and say, "Yeah, I can win there."

I'm not saying that you're wrong.  If I could go back and wave a magic wand, I would make it so we never re-hired Snyder.  But we're here, it is what it is, and we need to find a way out of this mess.  I just don't think hitting the eject button right now is the right way to go.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2010, 01:00:34 PM »
maybe it's just me, but I saw this coach and this coaching staff roster build off 11 win seasons and the result was '04 and '05 and a roster that everyone said would need to be improved when prince got here.  So, NO THANK YOU.

the short answer is that grandpa makes our fan base feel comfortable.  that's it.  he can do no wrong because the majority of our fan base can't think critically about snyder whatsoever. 

I really don't want to give the impression that I'm a "Snyder can do now wrong" person.  Truthfully, I think there's a lot of things he's done wrong.  However, in response to point number one, the major issue Snyder had during his first tenure, especially at the end, was his penchant for putting too many resources into specific recruits and not having back-up plans, or not spending enough time with the backup plans.  He also was a very late adopter, and you can probably argue that he was a non-adopter, of the 'early offer', which left our pool of recruits slimmed down at the end, which left the best athletes out there being mainly borderline qualifiers.  Our stance was to sign a ton of these guys, especially JUCOs, and they'd never step foot on campus, meaning our recruiting classes would basically get cut by 25-30% by the time camp rolled around.

All things considered, I think Snyder has rectified a lot of that strategy, and we're actually doing a decent job of filling scholarships.  Now, I'll hold ultimate judgement on that until February, but it's pretty clear his strategy has changed.  Only one player in last year's class didn't qualify (Williams), which meant that, including transfers, we pretty put at least 23-25 players on scholarship last year.  My math may be a little fuzzy, but my count was 24.  Which is a dramatic improvement from before.

Again, I'm with you guys on the major point which is Snyder wasn't the best play two years ago.   I also agree with you that our fan base struggles with critical thinking, and their inability to accept a different coach is detrimental to the long-term health of the program.  But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football.  Suffering through three of four years of meh and swinging for the fences is a better play than killing this now and swinging for the fences because you may have something tangible to offer in three or four more years as opposed to a whole bunch of crap right now.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2010, 01:03:36 PM »
Couldn't ADJC just trick OBZ into thinking we were bringing in Leavitt as DC with HCIW tag then once our stadium upgrades are complete show them both the door in search of a new coaching staff?
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Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2010, 01:05:05 PM »
I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls.  Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.

Most people that aren't the equivalent of Paul Wulff could do that.  And they are.  Everywhere.  Eject button.  Now.

(Interestingly, Wulff was hand-picked by Bill Doba, and Bill Doba was hand-picked by Mike Price.  LESSONS, PEOPLE!)


But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football.

Do you have any real, modern examples of this?

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2010, 01:08:13 PM »
we should spend whatever it takes to get mike leach and then add an additional 30% on top of that with an agreement that he has to pay half of it back if he doesn't stay at least eight years.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2010, 01:42:27 PM »
I feel pretty comfortable in believing that Snyder can spend the next few years floating around .500 and heading to crap bowls.  Let him fix his mess, and when he's done, let's go take a chance.

Most people that aren't the equivalent of Paul Wulff could do that.  And they are.  Everywhere.  Eject button.  Now.

(Interestingly, Wulff was hand-picked by Bill Doba, and Bill Doba was hand-picked by Mike Price.  LESSONS, PEOPLE!)


But as I said, we're here, this is what we've got to work with, and a two year stint after a failed three year stint is the kind of coaching turnover that can doom a program to years and years of bad, bad football.

Do you have any real, modern examples of this?

I never said that I wanted anyone on the current staff, nor do I care who Snyder picks.  I'm perfectly content, and I would actually prefer, the next coach to be someone completely unaffiliated with LHC Bill Snyder.  So, if you're lumping me in with the "Snyder's infallible" crowd, please do not do so.

I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era.  Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program.  Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.

Offline unleashthemob

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #83 on: November 23, 2010, 01:54:51 PM »
I'd donate a few more dollars just to watch leavitt bitch slap and choke a few of the rough ridin' little pussies on this team!

Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #84 on: November 23, 2010, 02:00:37 PM »
I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era.  Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program.  Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.

That's actually a pretty horrible example.  They had a coach leave in the middle of probation, replaced him with a guy that had never coached college in his life, and won their division in year 2 and national title in year 3 after replacing the guy with zero college experience.

That's actually a good argument for not wasting your time with mediocrity.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #85 on: November 23, 2010, 02:46:03 PM »
I would also direct you to the mess Alabama football became in the DuBose/Fran/Shula era.  Some of it was coaches leaving, some of it was firing, but it took one of the top two or three (if not the best coach in all of college football) to turn around a historically hyper-elite program.  Also, there aren't many examples of this because it isn't done due to how damaging it could possibly be.

That's actually a pretty horrible example.  They had a coach leave in the middle of probation, replaced him with a guy that had never coached college in his life, and won their division in year 2 and national title in year 3 after replacing the guy with zero college experience.

That's actually a good argument for not wasting your time with mediocrity.

It's a lot easier when you have millions upon millions to throw at a coach and can hire someone like Nick Saban.

I get where you're coming from, and in a way I agree.  I like Daris' idea as well because I think KSU's best chance to land a great coach is going for a dude with a tarnished reputation that is just looking for a friendly place to land, so in my opinion, Mike Leach would be an amazing hire.  But I think the odds of that happening are slim, and unless there's some sort of slam dunk out there that we'd most definitely walk away with, I think the best course of action is to keep the status quo for about 3-4 more years.

Offline jtksu

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2010, 02:58:24 PM »
How 'bout we just hire a good DC, and just kinda put feelers out for the next few years?  If  a slam dunk type of hire is available, we'd be silly not to snap him up.  I'm not a huge fan of just hiring a new HC just for the sake of hiring a new HC.  What if we miss on our first few targets and end up with a third or fourth tier hire?  We don't absolutely have to hire a new HC right now.  (I think we do absolutely have to hire a new DC right now though.). Leavitt would be nice to have on staff, especially if Snyder was to take a turn for the worse in the middle of a season.  We could do much worse than to have Leaviit assume interim HC duties.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2010, 03:18:16 PM »
How 'bout we just hire a good DC, and just kinda put feelers out for the next few years?  If  a slam dunk type of hire is available, we'd be silly not to snap him up.  I'm not a huge fan of just hiring a new HC just for the sake of hiring a new HC.  What if we miss on our first few targets and end up with a third or fourth tier hire?  We don't absolutely have to hire a new HC right now.  (I think we do absolutely have to hire a new DC right now though.). Leavitt would be nice to have on staff, especially if Snyder was to take a turn for the worse in the middle of a season.  We could do much worse than to have Leaviit assume interim HC duties.

Well, Snyder is the head coach. He hires the coordinators. If no changes are made, we should fire the head coach. Even if changes are made, he should be on the hot seat next year without significant progress.

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2010, 03:18:57 PM »
I don't really have anything to add to the discussion other than I am in 100% agreement with Panjandrum...   Not that I don't disagree with Rusty, I just don't believe we're Currently capable of a quality hire with the current state of KSU football.
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Offline PowercatPat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
I would do almost anything to have Leavitt as our DC next year.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2010, 03:26:31 PM »
I don't really have anything to add to the discussion other than I am in 100% agreement with Panjandrum...   Not that I don't disagree with Rusty, I just don't believe we're Currently capable of a quality hire with the current state of KSU football.

Who could we realistically get after three years of mediocrity that we could not get now?

Offline jtksu

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #91 on: November 23, 2010, 03:31:05 PM »
Also-  I would like to make sure that Sams and Tuggle are signed.  If they get spooked and decommit, well, we are mumped.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2010, 03:33:36 PM »
Just curious here, but what state do you guys think KSU football needs to be in for us to get a quality hire? Just get 6 wins and bowl games a few years in a row? We have won at least 5 games for 6 straight years now. Would winning just 1 more game per year for the next few years make this program that much more desirable? I can see the point about not having all of the scholarships filled, but would it be desirable for a new coach if most of the scholarship players he inherits are underclassmen?

I think that when the results on the field do not match the desired results (within reason), it's time to find a new coach. I don't think that Snyder has failed (yet) because he hasn't really had enough time to get those results. If the team is not better next year, it will be time for Snyder to move on.

Offline jtksu

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2010, 03:42:03 PM »
Total number of wins is one thing.  Quality of players in the system is probably more important.  No one wants to take over knowing their players suck ass and will lose them a ton of games for the next few years, especially considering the short timeframe they will be given to produce positive results.  If we win 7 games next year and are capable of hanging with the majority of teams in the league, we would be attractive than we are this year.  A guy like Fedora would look our current team and think:  "eff that, my So. Miss team is better than that KSU team.  I'll look elsewhere and go where I have a fair shot at winning."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2010, 03:43:42 PM »
Why did we have to hire Prince?  Didn't Snyder leave us with good players?

Offline jtksu

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2010, 03:51:45 PM »
I have no idea why we hired prince.  Guess the binder was very impressive.  And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2010, 03:53:11 PM »
I have no idea why we hired prince.  Guess the binder was very impressive.  And I would say that the players we had going into Prince's term were not great but better than the players we had exiting Ron's term.

You wouldn't have argued that we should let Ron fill all of our open scholarships before we try to find a new coach, would you?

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #97 on: November 23, 2010, 04:03:42 PM »
What coach in his right mind would come to KSU after they fired their "Legendary" coach after a two year return?   It doesn't matter how we see it, or how the boosters see it,  The nation would see it as the "toughest coaching job in america"

eff, If KSU's savior, Bill rough ridin' Snyder, isn't good enough for the fans, Who is? 


I sure as crap wouldn't take that job.
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Offline jtksu

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #98 on: November 23, 2010, 04:11:39 PM »
I feel more confidant in Bill's ability to identify talent than Ron's.  At least this team is beginning to actually look like a BCS group.  I was getting a bit tired of the 6'7" 250 lbs ol guys and the 5'7" dbs and wrs.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Every Single Poster On GPC Guarantees Leavitt Has Been Hired As Next DC
« Reply #99 on: November 23, 2010, 04:19:46 PM »
What coach in his right mind would come to KSU after they fired their "Legendary" coach after a two year return?   It doesn't matter how we see it, or how the boosters see it,  The nation would see it as the "toughest coaching job in america"


Probably the same ones that would come to KSU after our "savior" shows the nation that his ceiling is 7 wins and a shitty bowl.  :dunno: