Author Topic: ksu ladycats  (Read 188861 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #550 on: March 11, 2014, 12:31:49 AM »
There's no way this is accurate but Wichita State reports their revenue as follows

Men's Basketball $5.3 million
Women's Basketball $1.7 million
Baseball approx. $4 million
Volleyball approx. $3 million

They're clearly hiding men's basketball and baseball revenues and expenditures within their women's numbers.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #551 on: March 11, 2014, 12:33:37 AM »
market value or not, paying a head coach twice the potential revenue is really ridiculous.  why are women's basketball (and i'm sure other non-revenue sports) head coaching salaries so inflated?  seems like a $60-80k job at most

Honestly, why would you dumb down this conversation even more than it already is? Do you actually want an answer to this question, certainly you're smarter than that? Right?

i'm serious.  i understand the value of having non-revenue sports, and the opportunities it creates for many young people and expanding the brand of the university.  i'm ok with that trade off (even though i make joke about dropping everything but fb and mbb).  but a head coach of those sports should have a salary somewhat equal to your average teacher/professor at that university.

getting paid 600k and only bringing in 366k is just irresponsible though, use that extra 500k and spend it on the athletes.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #552 on: March 11, 2014, 01:05:43 AM »
market value or not, paying a head coach twice the potential revenue is really ridiculous.  why are women's basketball (and i'm sure other non-revenue sports) head coaching salaries so inflated?  seems like a $60-80k job at most

Honestly, why would you dumb down this conversation even more than it already is? Do you actually want an answer to this question, certainly you're smarter than that? Right?

i'm serious.  i understand the value of having non-revenue sports, and the opportunities it creates for many young people and expanding the brand of the university.  i'm ok with that trade off (even though i make joke about dropping everything but fb and mbb).  but a head coach of those sports should have a salary somewhat equal to your average teacher/professor at that university.

getting paid 600k and only bringing in 366k is just irresponsible though, use that extra 500k and spend it on the athletes.

Again it isn't what you or anyone else thinks what they should be making, the market dictates the value. An individual athletic director cannot lower the value of the contract. You want non revenue coaches to make $85,000, you better make a pact between all athletic directors to keep the salaries that low. However, I'm sure you're aware COLUSION is very illegal. There is a free market so people who want the best coaches will pay them truckloads of money so that money trickles down to everyone. Are you advocating that we ditch capitalism for womens basketball coaches?

The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university. Did you see what I listed for the revenues of some of the other programs? Find me the professor that brings in $1 million a year into the university.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #553 on: March 11, 2014, 01:21:50 AM »
i had a part typed out that since market values is what it is, that we should pay that, but figured you were smart enough to know i was talking about the system as a whole and not ksu specifically so i deleted it.

i'm not talking about COLUSION or anything, calm down.  i'm saying my market value view of these coaches is around 100k.  if you started coaching the basketball team tomorrow for 100k, it doesn't even matter how much revenue drops off because the school already saved more than the team was "worth" in the first place.  the animal makes like $350k right?  do you think a women's basketball coach is worth twice the value of the university president?  that's absurd.

football and mbb salaries are inflated too (in my opinion), but at least they bring huge amounts of value.
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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #554 on: March 11, 2014, 01:46:49 AM »
The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university.

tons of professors bring in that kind of money in annual grants.  i don't have data in front of me, but i'd say it's closer to the truth that a prof at a serious research university (in the sciences) that isn't bringing in at least that is likely not going to receive tenure (same thing as being fired).
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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #555 on: March 11, 2014, 08:26:02 AM »
I'll be curious to see the 13-14 revenues/expenses for baseball and WBB. Baseball was coming off of a pretty down year in 2012, so season ticket sales, hype, etc. were not very high. I bet that gap closed considerably this year...

Also, there are only a couple of baseball programs that break even each year. There are not a lot of WBB who manage this (43 in 2012), but there several more than baseball.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #556 on: March 11, 2014, 08:53:00 AM »
The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university.

tons of professors bring in that kind of money in annual grants.  i don't have data in front of me, but i'd say it's closer to the truth that a prof at a serious research university (in the sciences) that isn't bringing in at least that is likely not going to receive tenure (same thing as being fired).

Yup

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #557 on: March 11, 2014, 08:55:57 AM »
I'll be curious to see the 13-14 revenues/expenses for baseball and WBB. Baseball was coming off of a pretty down year in 2012, so season ticket sales, hype, etc. were not very high. I bet that gap closed considerably this year...

Also, there are only a couple of baseball programs that break even each year. There are not a lot of WBB who manage this (43 in 2012), but there several more than baseball.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ksu/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/FY13AuditorReportFinancials.pdf

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #558 on: March 11, 2014, 09:23:24 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #559 on: March 11, 2014, 09:24:55 AM »
I'll be curious to see the 13-14 revenues/expenses for baseball and WBB. Baseball was coming off of a pretty down year in 2012, so season ticket sales, hype, etc. were not very high. I bet that gap closed considerably this year...

Also, there are only a couple of baseball programs that break even each year. There are not a lot of WBB who manage this (43 in 2012), but there several more than baseball.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ksu/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/FY13AuditorReportFinancials.pdf

That is for FY12-13. I'm referring to FY13-14 that doesn't end until June 30.

Either way, those sheets suggest the difference in revenue produced by WBB and BSB last year is the $43K WBB charged for parking...

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #560 on: March 11, 2014, 09:28:25 AM »

http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

He coaches at my high school the first two years I was there before he left for Oklahoma State. Won state 2 or 3 times dominated Centennial league. He bleeds purple deep down. Great guy.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #561 on: March 11, 2014, 09:31:17 AM »
market value or not, paying a head coach twice the potential revenue is really ridiculous.  why are women's basketball (and i'm sure other non-revenue sports) head coaching salaries so inflated?  seems like a $60-80k job at most

Honestly, why would you dumb down this conversation even more than it already is? Do you actually want an answer to this question, certainly you're smarter than that? Right?

i'm serious.  i understand the value of having non-revenue sports, and the opportunities it creates for many young people and expanding the brand of the university.  i'm ok with that trade off (even though i make joke about dropping everything but fb and mbb).  but a head coach of those sports should have a salary somewhat equal to your average teacher/professor at that university.

getting paid 600k and only bringing in 366k is just irresponsible though, use that extra 500k and spend it on the athletes.

Again it isn't what you or anyone else thinks what they should be making, the market dictates the value. An individual athletic director cannot lower the value of the contract. You want non revenue coaches to make $85,000, you better make a pact between all athletic directors to keep the salaries that low. However, I'm sure you're aware COLUSION is very illegal. There is a free market so people who want the best coaches will pay them truckloads of money so that money trickles down to everyone. Are you advocating that we ditch capitalism for womens basketball coaches?

The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university. Did you see what I listed for the revenues of some of the other programs? Find me the professor that brings in $1 million a year into the university.

Do you think Deb's salary played a role in her termination?  I think it got too high and she wasn't winning enough to justify it.

If she had been sitting at 200k i think she is still coaching at KSU.  But, to your point, 2 time conference champs demand more.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #562 on: March 11, 2014, 09:33:34 AM »
The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university.

tons of professors bring in that kind of money in annual grants.  i don't have data in front of me, but i'd say it's closer to the truth that a prof at a serious research university (in the sciences) that isn't bringing in at least that is likely not going to receive tenure (same thing as being fired).

Yup

I take issue with "tons" but yes professors bring in grants to their departments and the university. Point is an average women's basketball coach has the potential to and should bring more attention and money to a university than a professor. Comparing their financial impact is silly.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #563 on: March 11, 2014, 09:36:15 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

Texas Tech hired another assistant off of that staff last spring. I don't think that hire would be what the program needs in the short term.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #564 on: March 11, 2014, 09:40:54 AM »
I'll be curious to see the 13-14 revenues/expenses for baseball and WBB. Baseball was coming off of a pretty down year in 2012, so season ticket sales, hype, etc. were not very high. I bet that gap closed considerably this year...

Also, there are only a couple of baseball programs that break even each year. There are not a lot of WBB who manage this (43 in 2012), but there several more than baseball.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ksu/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/FY13AuditorReportFinancials.pdf

That is for FY12-13. I'm referring to FY13-14 that doesn't end until June 30.

Either way, those sheets suggest the difference in revenue produced by WBB and BSB last year is the $43K WBB charged for parking...

I'd guess that baseball and women's basketball revenues will be nearly identical if not more for baseball when the 13-14 numbers are released. The season ticket revenue for baseball, I'd guess is at a record high but wbb ticket revenue is essentially at its floor.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #565 on: March 11, 2014, 09:45:50 AM »
market value or not, paying a head coach twice the potential revenue is really ridiculous.  why are women's basketball (and i'm sure other non-revenue sports) head coaching salaries so inflated?  seems like a $60-80k job at most

Honestly, why would you dumb down this conversation even more than it already is? Do you actually want an answer to this question, certainly you're smarter than that? Right?

i'm serious.  i understand the value of having non-revenue sports, and the opportunities it creates for many young people and expanding the brand of the university.  i'm ok with that trade off (even though i make joke about dropping everything but fb and mbb).  but a head coach of those sports should have a salary somewhat equal to your average teacher/professor at that university.

getting paid 600k and only bringing in 366k is just irresponsible though, use that extra 500k and spend it on the athletes.

Again it isn't what you or anyone else thinks what they should be making, the market dictates the value. An individual athletic director cannot lower the value of the contract. You want non revenue coaches to make $85,000, you better make a pact between all athletic directors to keep the salaries that low. However, I'm sure you're aware COLUSION is very illegal. There is a free market so people who want the best coaches will pay them truckloads of money so that money trickles down to everyone. Are you advocating that we ditch capitalism for womens basketball coaches?

The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university. Did you see what I listed for the revenues of some of the other programs? Find me the professor that brings in $1 million a year into the university.

Do you think Deb's salary played a role in her termination?  I think it got too high and she wasn't winning enough to justify it.

If she had been sitting at 200k i think she is still coaching at KSU.  But, to your point, 2 time conference champs demand more.

No I don't think her salary played a role at all, even if she made $30,000 the revenues are still plummeting. We can't afford to keep bleeding revenue. If Deb would have come back for 14-15 I think the team would be much better but season ticket sales would drop again.

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #566 on: March 11, 2014, 09:52:32 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

Texas Tech hired another assistant off of that staff last spring. I don't think that hire would be what the program needs in the short term.

I don't disagree, but what does the program need in the short term that Annan wouldn't bring?  I have no idea what Annan brings, but on the surface he looks like someone the KSU wbb crowd would get behind.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #567 on: March 11, 2014, 10:21:42 AM »
market value or not, paying a head coach twice the potential revenue is really ridiculous.  why are women's basketball (and i'm sure other non-revenue sports) head coaching salaries so inflated?  seems like a $60-80k job at most

Honestly, why would you dumb down this conversation even more than it already is? Do you actually want an answer to this question, certainly you're smarter than that? Right?

i'm serious.  i understand the value of having non-revenue sports, and the opportunities it creates for many young people and expanding the brand of the university.  i'm ok with that trade off (even though i make joke about dropping everything but fb and mbb).  but a head coach of those sports should have a salary somewhat equal to your average teacher/professor at that university.

getting paid 600k and only bringing in 366k is just irresponsible though, use that extra 500k and spend it on the athletes.

Again it isn't what you or anyone else thinks what they should be making, the market dictates the value. An individual athletic director cannot lower the value of the contract. You want non revenue coaches to make $85,000, you better make a pact between all athletic directors to keep the salaries that low. However, I'm sure you're aware COLUSION is very illegal. There is a free market so people who want the best coaches will pay them truckloads of money so that money trickles down to everyone. Are you advocating that we ditch capitalism for womens basketball coaches?

The logic that wbb coaches should be paid like professors is asinine. Even at $300,000, there aren't professors bringing that amount of money into the university. Did you see what I listed for the revenues of some of the other programs? Find me the professor that brings in $1 million a year into the university.

Do you think Deb's salary played a role in her termination?  I think it got too high and she wasn't winning enough to justify it.

If she had been sitting at 200k i think she is still coaching at KSU.  But, to your point, 2 time conference champs demand more.

No I don't think her salary played a role at all, even if she made $30,000 the revenues are still plummeting. We can't afford to keep bleeding revenue. If Deb would have come back for 14-15 I think the team would be much better but season ticket sales would drop again.

So, no difference between paying $30k and $600k.   :dubious:

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #568 on: March 11, 2014, 10:26:15 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

Texas Tech hired another assistant off of that staff last spring. I don't think that hire would be what the program needs in the short term.

I don't disagree, but what does the program need in the short term that Annan wouldn't bring?  I have no idea what Annan brings, but on the surface he looks like someone the KSU wbb crowd would get behind.

Bill Annan was my typing teacher at Seaman High School and the boys assistant coach.  You won't find a nicer guy.  I remember like 2 years ago I was watching the girls play and they were playing OSu, and they showed the bench and I saw Bill, and I screamed at the wife, hey that was my typing teaching in HS.  I had no idea he had entered the college ranks. 
Awaiting the inevitable KITN

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #569 on: March 11, 2014, 10:49:22 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

Texas Tech hired another assistant off of that staff last spring. I don't think that hire would be what the program needs in the short term.

I don't disagree, but what does the program need in the short term that Annan wouldn't bring?  I have no idea what Annan brings, but on the surface he looks like someone the KSU wbb crowd would get behind.

Take that he was at Seman out of the equation, because like 7 people care about that, what about his resume would excite you or indicate that he's ready for this job? Shalee has more experience as a college assistant than Annan does.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #570 on: March 11, 2014, 10:58:28 AM »
http://m.okstate.com/m/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/annan_bill00.html

I assume this guy will submit a resume' to currie. Had some really good high school teams and now he has some decent college experience.

Texas Tech hired another assistant off of that staff last spring. I don't think that hire would be what the program needs in the short term.

I don't disagree, but what does the program need in the short term that Annan wouldn't bring?  I have no idea what Annan brings, but on the surface he looks like someone the KSU wbb crowd would get behind.

Take that he was at Seman out of the equation, because like 7 people care about that, what about his resume would excite you or indicate that he's ready for this job? Shalee has more experience as a college assistant than Annan does.

He made his name at Washburn Rural

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #571 on: March 11, 2014, 11:06:14 AM »

Take that he was at Seman out of the equation, because like 7 people care about that, what about his resume would excite you or indicate that he's ready for this job? Shalee has more experience as a college assistant than Annan does.

All I can tell from his resume is that he has steadily moved up in program that has been going in the right direction since he got there. His accomplishments at hs level are also solid. I have no reason to believe he would be better or worse than Lehning. I know little to nothing valuable about either one. I thought you were referring to something specific that the KSU program needed. I was just curious what that was.

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #572 on: March 11, 2014, 11:08:00 AM »
i wonder if we could get candice jackson away from coach p at duke

great name 'sclams. I don't know why you wouldn't just hire Shalee if you would hire Jackson though, she doesn't have enough of an experience edge over Shalee to combat the people who would be pissed and call this a Ron Prince type hire. This needs to be a hire that instantly sells tickets and the only assistant who would do that is already here.

They call Joanne P. Mcallie Coach P? I thought that it was weird that whenever someone says her name, they say the P, calling her Coach P is bizarre.

ya the p is for her maiden name palombo

the lineage jackson brings in is tough to beat + shalee might be too young and too connected to deb in currie's eyes...just speculating


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #573 on: March 11, 2014, 11:17:17 AM »

Take that he was at Seman out of the equation, because like 7 people care about that, what about his resume would excite you or indicate that he's ready for this job? Shalee has more experience as a college assistant than Annan does.

All I can tell from his resume is that he has steadily moved up in program that has been going in the right direction since he got there. His accomplishments at hs level are also solid. I have no reason to believe he would be better or worse than Lehning. I know little to nothing valuable about either one. I thought you were referring to something specific that the KSU program needed. I was just curious what that was.

The program needs someone who will come in here and sell tickets, energize the fan base. For women's basketball making money is more important than winning, in the long term they go hand in hand. I don't think we can rebuild with a high school coach. I don't think his resume indicates that he is ready for this job yet. Shalee is in the same boat but we'd sell a lot of tickets and the fans would give her a lot of room to grow within the job.

Now I'm all in with Shalee or Jody Adams.

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: ksu ladycats
« Reply #574 on: March 11, 2014, 11:44:09 AM »

Take that he was at Seman out of the equation, because like 7 people care about that, what about his resume would excite you or indicate that he's ready for this job? Shalee has more experience as a college assistant than Annan does.

All I can tell from his resume is that he has steadily moved up in program that has been going in the right direction since he got there. His accomplishments at hs level are also solid. I have no reason to believe he would be better or worse than Lehning. I know little to nothing valuable about either one. I thought you were referring to something specific that the KSU program needed. I was just curious what that was.

The program needs someone who will come in here and sell tickets, energize the fan base. For women's basketball making money is more important than winning, in the long term they go hand in hand. I don't think we can rebuild with a high school coach. I don't think his resume indicates that he is ready for this job yet. Shalee is in the same boat but we'd sell a lot of tickets and the fans would give her a lot of room to grow within the job.

Now I'm all in with Shalee or Jody Adams.

I'd consider Annan more than a high school coach. He's Assoc
Head Coach of a top 20 team. Otherwise I fully agree with you. Adams seems like the best possibility. I wouldn't be upset with either Lehning or Annan.