Author Topic: Fire LHC Bill Snyder Master Thread  (Read 81628 times)

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catzacker

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #225 on: November 14, 2010, 12:02:25 PM »


With all due respect, this is a horsecac basis for evaluation.  You could make the argument that RP only lost one game in his entire tenure that he was supposed to win.  (@ISU)

The only difference is the cactyness of KU during their tenures.

This isn't my basis long term of a good football program, but given K-State football since 2004, it was a step I wanted to see.  I don't think that's a poor evaluation given the talent level of our program. You've got to start by beating the .500 or worse teams, teams with similar or worse talent, before you move on to bigger and better things. JMHO.

not a bad evaluation, Ron had 2 losses to .500 or worse teams every year in his tenure, bill had 2 last year (UL and UCLA - they were 6-6 until they won their bowl game).  This year he's had none of those losses (with two of those crappy teams remaining - CU and UNT). 

the problem is that there is no "long term", at least under bill (unless he's going to stay until he dies).  so this is all pointless.  there's not guarantee of success when the baton is handed to the next guy, regardless of how many non-crappy teams bill didn't lose to.  we're building for nothing with this coach. 

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #226 on: November 14, 2010, 12:11:33 PM »

I'm pretty sure Ron was doing that when we fired him.

08 - 2 losses to <.500 teams.
07 - 2 losses to <.500 teams, 1 to a .500 team.
06 - 1 loss to <.500 team, 1 to a .500 team.

Offline chum1

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #227 on: November 14, 2010, 12:27:22 PM »
jt and the powertards are happy?  waters officially calm?  was there ever any doubt?

Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #228 on: November 14, 2010, 12:58:39 PM »
Soo....everyone still wants Ron Prince as our coach? got it.

I still want Ron Prince.

Sometimes I think of the Book of Job and how God likes to really eff with people.
- chunkles

Offline The Whale

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #229 on: November 14, 2010, 01:15:35 PM »
A lot of KSTATEO in this thread.  A WHOLE LOT

catzacker

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #230 on: November 14, 2010, 01:15:54 PM »

Offline michigancat

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #231 on: November 14, 2010, 01:20:36 PM »

I'm pretty sure Ron was doing that when we fired him.

08 - 2 losses to <.500 teams.
07 - 2 losses to <.500 teams, 1 to a .500 team.
06 - 1 loss to <.500 team, 1 to a .500 team.

I mean, praise jesus that ULL was 6-6 so we don't have to count that one.  Like I said, the difference is KU.

Offline Cire

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #232 on: November 14, 2010, 02:11:37 PM »
I want venebles too, IF he's got a staff hanpicked and ready to come.

Online steve dave

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #233 on: November 14, 2010, 02:20:28 PM »
So is slightly better than Ron what we, as KSU fans, are shooting for here?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #234 on: November 14, 2010, 02:25:31 PM »
So is slightly better than Ron what we, as KSU fans, are shooting for here?

At this point I'm just shooting for better.  Whoever takes over in a few years will get a decent program.  Not great, but decent.

Online steve dave

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #235 on: November 14, 2010, 02:26:37 PM »
I WANT GREAT LIKE WE USED TO HAVE!

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #236 on: November 14, 2010, 02:33:26 PM »
I WANT GREAT LIKE WE USED TO HAVE!

Who doesn't?

But it isn't going to happen over night.  And I don't expect it to happen during Snyder part 2.  All I expected from Snyder 2 is fixing the mess the Prince made.  I'll admit that Snyder 1 didn't leave Prince a bunch either, but Prince left nothing.  IMHO Snyder is at least building this thing back up to a level where a decent coach will be attracted to the program when he is done.  It ridiculous we are currently at 70 scholarship players.  But we are getting better local kids and some decent recruits from elsewhere and JUCOs now.  We are at least putting together a serviceable roster right now and still fielding a decent football team. 

Offline chum1

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #237 on: November 14, 2010, 02:44:18 PM »
why settle for an eight year rebuilding project?  kstateo special cicumstances to deal with?

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #238 on: November 14, 2010, 02:50:35 PM »
why settle for an eight year rebuilding project?  kstateo special cicumstances to deal with?

it's year 2 dipshit

Offline Trim

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #239 on: November 14, 2010, 02:50:46 PM »
_FAN, what you would you set as the benchmarks/timetable for the Snyder project?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #240 on: November 14, 2010, 02:55:35 PM »
 :lynchmob:
_FAN, what you would you set as the benchmarks/timetable for the Snyder project?

I hope he decides to re-retire after next year or the year after.  That's plenty of time.

I'm also still hopeful bringing in Leavitt as DC is still on the table.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:58:14 PM by ksu_FAN »

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #241 on: November 14, 2010, 02:57:39 PM »
The real problem that we both seem to be squabbling over is the complete lack of a direction for the program.

LHC Bill Snyder has his name on the stadium.  Prince was a terrible coach, but LHC Bill Snyder did him no favors during his time here.  Further, Bill has people inside the athletic department (it starts with his son) that he has chosen to protect and elevate to an "untouchable" status.  He backed up his word by stepping down on this front.

LHC Bill Snyder's age is no secret, and if he tells the truth as much as Leland, he is here to "calm the waters" and then dock his boat.  This mission and exit plan are completely undefinable.  What the hell is a yes/no benchmark for whether Bill gets to say.  As sick as it is, only he could set the terms at the outset and I know of nothing that would change that outside of KU getting better.  We have created a situation where we feel so beholden to Bill, that we have sacrificed any planning for the future to live in a kind of nihilist nostalgia.  There is no plan.  There is no planning, because Bill is once again at the helm and he will remain there until he decides he will leave or until he is forced out by the powers that be.

Bill was the head coach during a wonderful time for many of us.  He did some amazing things and he deserves recognition and praise for the accomplishments that he guided the team to.

But the myopic worship of Bill will prevent any semblance of proportionality, and make no mistake, the history has already been written.  Any facts past or present to the contrary are dismissed because they do not fit the narrative.

What is there to root for at this juncure?  I am in no position to know.  If we can leverage a consistent bowl team in to a good hire, then that would be for the best and would be great.  If we lose and Bill retires I don't know the outcome would be much different.  Ultimately, Mr. Currie will have to stand up to Bill and Jack to make a decision that is best for the University.

But I won't send my money to support this quagmire.  Snyder has been very selfish towards the end of his career.  I don't think that he has put Kansas State first, I think he has placed his ego ahead.  I know that he missed the game, that he heard from his friends and his colleagues and that he thought he was doing what was right.  But Kansas State needs to move on.  I don't know how much longer Bill can coach, but unless there is a legitimate Head Coach in Waiting brought in for next year, then this miserable slog will march on.  With everyone lying to themselves and hoping for what once was.  If Bill wins 10 games it would be wonderful. 

But then what would we say when he asked for more time?  Or if he demands that his son stay on to transition the program over?  Or if he wants to bring in an old friend for the job because he "understands what it takes?"

The divorce needs to happen because Kansas State Football can no longer be synonymous with LHC Bill Snyder.  For both our sakes.  Here's hoping it is amicable for both parties.  Relax Bill, you've earned it.

Online steve dave

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #242 on: November 14, 2010, 03:00:41 PM »
 :star: :star: :star: :star: :star: KK

stunz

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #243 on: November 14, 2010, 03:02:53 PM »
interesting looking back at the 2007 recruiting class.  there's nobody worth a crap from there.  kind of the same with 2008.

looking forward to next year, when we see how the 2009 class pans out, and with the browns + brod + poss juco help! :excited:

Online steve dave

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #244 on: November 14, 2010, 03:04:45 PM »
looking forward to next year, when we see how the 2009 class pans out, and with the browns + brod + poss juco help! :excited:

This will be nice

Offline jtksu

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #245 on: November 14, 2010, 03:06:34 PM »
Pus we have QB help coming next year.

Offline Trim

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #246 on: November 14, 2010, 03:07:33 PM »
This mission and exit plan are completely undefinable.  

This is why I can't get excited about KSU football right now.

Offline chum1

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #247 on: November 14, 2010, 03:16:09 PM »
why settle for an eight year rebuilding project?  kstateo special cicumstances to deal with?

it's year 2 dipshit

how long will snyder be here?  how long do we let the next coach be mediocre?  look at chizik in year two.  you don't need a long term plan.

Offline Fuktard

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #248 on: November 14, 2010, 03:23:56 PM »
Anyone calling for BS to be fired is a moron.  Had we hired Nick Saban 2 years ago, you same people would be saying "Saban's doing a great job with the pile of crap left for him by RP.  Give him time to get the mess cleaned up and get his players in here."  If you judge BS on simply what he has done the past 1.5 years (without bringing in your biases from BS circa 2005) he has done a damn fine job.  That said, I too know that Bill's days are clearly numbered and would love to see Patterson (or similar) running the show.  Whoever is brought in, I will give them more than 1.5 years before I start calling for their heads.
why settle for an eight year rebuilding project?  kstateo special cicumstances to deal with?

it's year 2 dipshit

how long will snyder be here?  how long do we let the next coach be mediocre?  look at chizik in year two.  you don't need a long term plan.

Chizek in year 2?  LOL...hohw was Chizek in year 2 at ISU?  Maybe it's les about coaching ability and has something to do with what's left in the cupboard (or what was purchased at the store by rich alumuni)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 03:26:22 PM by Fuktard »

Offline michigancat

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #249 on: November 14, 2010, 03:28:16 PM »
This mission and exit plan are completely undefinable.  

This is why I can't get excited about KSU football right now.

The problem is you can't define an exit plan beyond a year.  If you do, your recruiting is DOA.  But Bill's kind of said that he was just here to calm the waters and he's old balls, so he kind of mumped himself that way, too.

What Bill is doing right now is not any better than what a ton of coaches 20-30 years younger could have done.  The differences is with those guys, you can have a REAL long term system in place.   With Bill, we're 2-3 years from Prince 2.0, (which, luckily, is only slightly shittier than what we have now).  That is my number one issue with Bill.


As for the 2 year thing, take a look at guys like Doug Marrone and Dan Mullen.   Both took over crap jobs and have easily passed Bill.