Author Topic: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.  (Read 22615 times)

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Offline pissclams

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #100 on: February 04, 2010, 06:33:15 PM »
some people just don't get it...

point guards with handles don't get ripped the way he does, they don't rely on a left handed forearm into their defender every time down the floor to make space and protect the ball.  they don't dribble at their ear level with their back hunched down like a turtle.  elite point guards go past their man and break down defenses (see Collins).  elite point guards can create their own shots (hint- outside of the transition game, denis can't create his own shot, despite what you want to believe).  on-ball screens are denis clemente's best friend.

LowBBIQ- he doesn't know when to shoot and when we need to play the clock (see 2 for 1 vs. Baylor), doesn't understand a good shot vs. a bad one.  doesn't understand his teammates strengths and weaknesses (behind the back to CK on the break vs. NU).

keep your stats and use them as blindfolds.   -with that I will depart this thread b/c I know, after repeated attempts, I cannot help you understand these simple concepts.

btw, nice work jmart, levi, slimz, felix,  k24 and whoever else agreed with me in this thread.  LOL.  :)


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Online michigancat

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2010, 06:58:27 PM »
Not a great handle at all. Gets ripped often in man-to-man.

Often?  No he doesn't.

Not many ahead of him on this list.  And very few primary ball handlers.

I commented on his handle, not ball security. To me, there are way too many times when he's dribbling over halfcourt when someone challenges him and takes the ball away. I've never seen that happen to elite point guards. Just an observation, nothing statistical to back it up. I think that's something, if he has any designs on playing professionally, he'll have to shore up big-time.

You have nothing statistical to back that assertion up, because it doesn't happen very often.  If he was prone to giving up steals, he'd have a worse TORate.

Let me make this extremely simple for you, stat guy - twice this season, in games I've watched on television, Denis has had the ball stolen from him once he crossed midcourt or was about to cross midcourt. That's two more times than I've seen that happen to Kalin Lucas, Sherron Collins, etc. It has just stuck in my head. I'm not discounting your precious TORate, but that's not what I'm talking about at all.

Dude, that happened twice to Sherron in the last minute of regulation vs. KSU.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2010, 07:00:48 PM »
When you say "don't get ripped the way he does" are you referring to the two times Jeff remembered or are there more?  

Offline slimz

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2010, 07:02:36 PM »
Gets ripped often

Quote
way too many times

Quote
twice this season

 :peek:

Offline austin_meek

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2010, 07:03:30 PM »
 they don't dribble at their ear level with their back hunched down like a turtle. 

Leave Clent Stewart out of this.

Offline FP TC etc.

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2010, 07:04:01 PM »
some people just don't get it...

point guards with handles don't get ripped the way he does, they don't rely on a left handed forearm into their defender every time down the floor to make space and protect the ball.  they don't dribble at their ear level with their back hunched down like a turtle.  elite point guards go past their man and break down defenses (see Collins).  elite point guards can create their own shots (hint- outside of the transition game, denis can't create his own shot, despite what you want to believe).  on-ball screens are denis clemente's best friend.

LowBBIQ- he doesn't know when to shoot and when we need to play the clock (see 2 for 1 vs. Baylor), doesn't understand a good shot vs. a bad one.  doesn't understand his teammates strengths and weaknesses (behind the back to CK on the break vs. NU).

keep your stats and use them as blindfolds.   -with that I will depart this thread b/c I know, after repeated attempts, I cannot help you understand these simple concepts.

btw, nice work jmart, levi, slimz, felix,  k24 and whoever else agreed with me in this thread.  LOL.  :)



The 2 plays after the 1 min mark.  :dunno:

Offline steve dave

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2010, 07:04:22 PM »
 they don't dribble at their ear level with their back hunched down like a turtle. 

Leave Clent Stewart out of this.

Blake Young was the leaniest.  

Offline JMart

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2010, 07:04:50 PM »
Look, if the consensus here is that Denis has a good, not great, handle - cool. No shame in that. It's just not true, but believe what you want. It's a free country.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #108 on: February 04, 2010, 07:07:52 PM »
For a streaky shooting, shot forcing, quick tempered, average defending combo guard, Clem has great handles.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #109 on: February 04, 2010, 07:09:08 PM »
For a streaky shooting, shot forcing, quick tempered, average defending combo guard, Clem has great handles.

lol

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2010, 07:11:18 PM »
Look, if the consensus here is that Denis has a good, not great, handle - cool. No shame in that. It's just not true, but believe what you want. It's a free country.

I guess it all depends on what we are talking about here.  Can Denis easily create his own shot off the dribble/does he have a crossover/does he dribble too far out in front on fast breaks/not have solid pgbbiq?  Yes, agreed.

But saying that he gets constantly picked off for steals is misleading.  Maybe you were overselling what you thought to be an obvious underlying truth, but you got caught out as bad as Denis ever has on that first post.  You can modify, and I will agree that Denis has some serious capital "P" PG problems, but don't think for a second that your opening post didn't just get taken for a dunk at the other end.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2010, 07:14:18 PM »
Not a great handle at all. Gets ripped often in man-to-man.

Often?  No he doesn't.

Not many ahead of him on this list.  And very few primary ball handlers.

I commented on his handle, not ball security. To me, there are way too many times when he's dribbling over halfcourt when someone challenges him and takes the ball away. I've never seen that happen to elite point guards. Just an observation, nothing statistical to back it up. I think that's something, if he has any designs on playing professionally, he'll have to shore up big-time.

You have nothing statistical to back that assertion up, because it doesn't happen very often.  If he was prone to giving up steals, he'd have a worse TORate.

Let me make this extremely simple for you, stat guy - twice this season, in games I've watched on television, Denis has had the ball stolen from him once he crossed midcourt or was about to cross midcourt. That's two more times than I've seen that happen to Kalin Lucas, Sherron Collins, etc. It has just stuck in my head. I'm not discounting your precious TORate, but that's not what I'm talking about at all.

Dude, that happened twice to Sherron in the last minute of regulation vs. KSU.
Dude no it didn't.  He fell- he was cramped.


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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2010, 07:15:25 PM »
Look, if the consensus here is that Denis has a good, not great, handle - cool. No shame in that. It's just not true, but believe what you want. It's a free country.

I just think it's irrelevant to the discussion (which is to prove Kitchen's an idiot).  Clemente's style of play and decision making aren't hurting the team.  Could he get better?  Sure.  Every player could.  Singling Clemente out is stupid, and therefore, so is Kitchen.


Dude, that happened twice to Sherron in the last minute of regulation vs. KSU.
Dude no it didn't.  He fell- he was cramped.

lols

Offline JMart

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2010, 07:16:29 PM »
Look, if the consensus here is that Denis has a good, not great, handle - cool. No shame in that. It's just not true, but believe what you want. It's a free country.

I guess it all depends on what we are talking about here.  Can Denis easily create his own shot off the dribble/does he have a crossover/does he dribble too far out in front on fast breaks/not have solid pgbbiq?  Yes, agreed.

But saying that he gets constantly picked off for steals is misleading.  Maybe you were overselling what you thought to be an obvious underlying truth, but you got caught out as bad as Denis ever has on that first post.  You can modify, and I will agree that Denis has some serious capital "P" PG problems, but don't think for a second that your opening post didn't just get taken for a dunk at the other end.

I disagree. I said he doesn't have a great handle. And I said it happened often - far more often than it should. I stand by what I wrote.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2010, 07:16:54 PM »
When you say "don't get ripped the way he does" are you referring to the two times Jeff remembered or are there more? 
ya, just those two times jmart is talking about, he's only been ripped twice.  i'm sure there's a stat out there that proves it.  :users:

Look, if the consensus here is that Denis has a good, not great, handle - cool. No shame in that. It's just not true, but believe what you want. It's a free country.

I just think it's irrelevant to the discussion (which is to prove Kitchen's an idiot).  Clemente's style of play and decision making aren't hurting the team.  Could he get better?  Sure.  Every player could.  Singling Clemente out is stupid, and therefore, so is Kitchen.


Dude, that happened twice to Sherron in the last minute of regulation vs. KSU.
Dude no it didn't.  He fell- he was cramped.

lols
you're right,  clemente = collins  :barf:   collins falls down all the time.  


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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2010, 07:18:02 PM »
you're right,  clemente = collins  :barf:   collins falls down all the time. 

Collins is way, way, way better than Clemente.

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2010, 07:22:50 PM »
demclems is an outstanding shooter. I saw him drop 44 in Austin last year.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2010, 07:36:36 PM »
you're right,  clemente = collins  :barf:   collins falls down all the time. 

Collins is way, way, way better than Clemente.

This.  And does Jay Mart not get the endless list of losers that we have to compare him to?  Stew?  Blake?  Schwarzendrubber?  Hart?  Larry (I LIKED LARRY!)? The one year guys? Peete (AND I LIKED PEETE!)?  Nick (AND I LIKED NICK!)?  DEZ (AND I LIKED DEZ!)?

Are any of those guys an improvement over Clems?  I'd hear arguments on two of them, and neither was a "P" as in point.

I mean the entire argument is infantile.  Compared to rough ridin' what?  Is this why we can't rough ridin' have rough ridin' nice things???!!!

Offline JMart

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2010, 07:54:32 PM »
you're right,  clemente = collins  :barf:   collins falls down all the time. 

Collins is way, way, way better than Clemente.

This.  And does Jay Mart not get the endless list of losers that we have to compare him to?  Stew?  Blake?  Schwarzendrubber?  Hart?  Larry (I LIKED LARRY!)? The one year guys? Peete (AND I LIKED PEETE!)?  Nick (AND I LIKED NICK!)?  DEZ (AND I LIKED DEZ!)?

Are any of those guys an improvement over Clems?  I'd hear arguments on two of them, and neither was a "P" as in point.

I mean the entire argument is infantile.  Compared to fracking what?  Is this why we can't fracking have fracking nice things???!!!

Relax. My whole point was he doesn't have a good handle. That was the extent of what I said.

Offline Levi

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #119 on: February 04, 2010, 08:03:26 PM »
demclems is an outstanding shooter. I saw him drop 44 in Austin last year.

Is this serious?

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #120 on: February 04, 2010, 08:10:14 PM »
demclems is an outstanding shooter. I saw him drop 44 in Austin last year.

Is this serious?


Of course it is.  I also saw him shoot really well on TV in the UNLV and Nebraska games.  Really stuck in my head.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #121 on: February 04, 2010, 08:11:11 PM »
Maybe its just amazing to me that we can pick apart the 2nd/3rd best player on the #10/11 team in the country and that team is K-State, but sometimes I have to look again to make sure the name of the player is Denis Clemente and not Richie Terry.  :dunno:

Offline Levi

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #122 on: February 04, 2010, 08:11:53 PM »
demclems is an outstanding shooter. I saw him drop 44 in Austin last year.

Is this serious?


Of course it is.  I also saw him shoot really well on TV in the UNLV and Nebraska games.  Really stuck in my head.

Ah, I see now. Clever.

Offline mcmwcat

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #123 on: February 04, 2010, 08:39:01 PM »
collins has amazing handles

Offline slimz

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Re: Kitchen reverts back to his ksufans.com days.
« Reply #124 on: February 04, 2010, 09:25:04 PM »
demclems is an outstanding shooter. I saw him drop 44 in Austin last year.

Is this serious?


Of course it is.  I also saw him shoot really well on TV in the UNLV and Nebraska games.  Really stuck in my head.

Have you ever seen Sherron Collins or Kalin Lucas ever score 44 in a game?   :dunno: