Author Topic: bbba and bib discussion.  (Read 10574 times)

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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2021, 01:40:58 PM »

Offline Justwin

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2021, 02:07:08 PM »
It has been awhile since I looked at it but I thought romneys plan was much better in that it went through social security admin so it was much more likely to catch non filers and would be much more efficient at distribution. I think he had some bullshit workfare stuff and wanted to like eliminate food stamps or something, but I would be overjoyed if they were able to work something out with Romney and then tell Manchin to eff himself.

I kind of doubt the moron dem think tank crowd that has been working on the CTC since clinton Will like it, or Biden is up for actually grasping all the details, but the Romney plan at its basics gets my endorsement and I think I am on the record as reporting Matt bruenig’s take about why it was better for kids in poverty.

It's main funding mechanisms are changing the EITC to be more of a flat payment, eliminating SALT deductions (definite bonus!), eliminating the HOH tax status and eliminating TANF. The SNAP changes are only like $3.1 billion and the elimination of the Child and Dependent Care Credit is $4.7 billion.

https://www.romney.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/family%20security%20act_one%20pager.pdf

The Niskanen Center says it would cut child poverty by a third, deep child poverty by half, eliminate marriage penalties and end welfare traps.

https://www.niskanencenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Analysis-of-the-Romney-Child-Allowance_final.pdf

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2021, 03:07:52 PM »
Yeah I obviously think the offsetting cuts to welfare are dumb because we already have the stingiest welfare of basically anywhere (although most of those programs are bad and have onerous reporting requirements/paperwork and should be replaced/improved), but the rest of it is great.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2021, 04:52:20 PM »
I know we have a lot of yuk yuks here but the us welfare state is awful and the CTC gave a shred of dignity to millions of people and it will be snatched away.  I’ve said a million times means testing is bad, but I’d be fine with taxing it back/phasing it out over $150K or whatever the number is.  The federal free lunch program and the CTC should be made permanent. Child poverty does not have to be a thing in the US, it is a choice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/22/child-tax-credit-end-manchin/

What are your thoughts on the Romney child allowance plan?

It would have been perfect if he could have paid for it without eliminating food stamps. Or if eliminating food stamps needed to happen, threshold needed to be reduced from $400,000 for a joint filing family to dunno $250,000 and families who would have qualified for food stamps would get a bigger chunk. There are a lot of places in this country where you can't feed a damn teenager with $250 a month. Also it's silly that younger children, in all of these plans, get a higher allotment, that makes no sense.

Offline Justwin

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2021, 09:31:01 PM »
I know we have a lot of yuk yuks here but the us welfare state is awful and the CTC gave a shred of dignity to millions of people and it will be snatched away.  I’ve said a million times means testing is bad, but I’d be fine with taxing it back/phasing it out over $150K or whatever the number is.  The federal free lunch program and the CTC should be made permanent. Child poverty does not have to be a thing in the US, it is a choice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/22/child-tax-credit-end-manchin/

What are your thoughts on the Romney child allowance plan?

It would have been perfect if he could have paid for it without eliminating food stamps. Or if eliminating food stamps needed to happen, threshold needed to be reduced from $400,000 for a joint filing family to dunno $250,000 and families who would have qualified for food stamps would get a bigger chunk. There are a lot of places in this country where you can't feed a damn teenager with $250 a month. Also it's silly that younger children, in all of these plans, get a higher allotment, that makes no sense.

I would have no problem with lowering the maximum incomes and when the phase out begins.

However, Romney's plan doesn't eliminate food stamps. It changes some eligibility requirements which results in a reduction of around $3 billion dollars. We spent nearly $80 billion on food stamps in 2020.

I agree that it would be better if the amount of the credit was the same for kids of all ages. The thinking in the plans is that families have to pay for day care for these kids, so they need more. Also, in the Romney plan, the Child and Dependent Care credit is eliminated, so this may be one way to compensate for that.

Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #130 on: January 19, 2022, 10:03:47 PM »
apparently biden said something today that is being interpreted as recognition that the ctc will have to be killed that the bbba may live, so i guess that's good.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline CNS

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #131 on: January 20, 2022, 09:45:05 AM »
I think its all dead now.  There is no reason for anyone to work with Biden at this point. 

The only legislation that will get worked out in the next 2-3 presidential terms will be if one party holds 60 senate seats and a house majority on top of the pres.   

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #132 on: January 20, 2022, 09:55:26 AM »
I think its all dead now.  There is no reason for anyone to work with Biden at this point. 

The only legislation that will get worked out in the next 2-3 presidential terms will be if one party holds 60 senate seats and a house majority on top of the pres.

No, the republicans will absolutely kill the filibuster if they have more than 50 seats and less than 60.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #133 on: January 20, 2022, 09:59:19 AM »
apparently biden said something today that is being interpreted as recognition that the ctc will have to be killed that the bbba may live, so i guess that's good.

I'm not sure 100% of the other democrats will vote for it without the ctc.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2022, 10:49:54 AM »
The ‘No salt, no deal’ democrats are huge studs

Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2022, 10:13:36 PM »
No, the republicans will absolutely kill the filibuster if they have more than 50 seats and less than 60.

i think that's backwards.  dems will kill it if they gain the chance any time in the medium-term future (but fortunately they are unlikely to), republicans are unlikely to kill it anytime soon.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Offline steve dave

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #137 on: January 26, 2022, 08:16:20 AM »
can’t wait to kick your ass

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #138 on: January 26, 2022, 08:34:19 AM »
don't get SALTy!


Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #139 on: February 01, 2022, 10:04:00 PM »
the bill manchin will agree to is better than the bill the senate would have passed without manchin and sinema to restrain them.

 :love:

https://twitter.com/josephzeballos/status/1488621479436693511
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline kim carnes

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #140 on: February 01, 2022, 10:59:48 PM »
Manchin will fall in line.

Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #141 on: February 01, 2022, 11:14:42 PM »
Manchin will fall in line.

gosh, no, kim carnes.  it's too expensive.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #142 on: February 02, 2022, 06:06:58 AM »
This thing is dead

Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2022, 05:13:51 PM »
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline CHONGS

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #144 on: March 23, 2022, 05:25:32 PM »
LOL

At some point one side is going to get tired of this farce.

Offline steve dave

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #145 on: March 23, 2022, 05:46:31 PM »
LOL

At some point one side is going to get tired of this farce.

yes, lmao

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #146 on: March 23, 2022, 07:10:43 PM »
Biden has no reason to tire of this as it would be a huge achievement for him especially going in to midterms and there is no doubt in my mind that Manchin loves attention, so why not?

Offline kim carnes

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #147 on: March 23, 2022, 07:13:20 PM »
No salt, no deal

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #148 on: March 23, 2022, 07:30:09 PM »
If I get my fully refundable EV tax credit I go glizzy goblin mode.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #149 on: March 23, 2022, 10:45:16 PM »