Author Topic: bbba and bib discussion.  (Read 9834 times)

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Offline Justwin

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2021, 05:12:47 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

Most kids that families are receiving the expanded CTC for are not in day care.

Moreover, if the daycare cost is related to the expanded CTC, then daycares will decrease the tuition cost by 10% when the expanded credit expires, right?

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #101 on: December 20, 2021, 06:34:12 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

Most kids that families are receiving the expanded CTC for are not in day care.

Moreover, if the daycare cost is related to the expanded CTC, then daycares will decrease the tuition cost by 10% when the expanded credit expires, right?

It's never going to expire outside of some weird scenario where someone who is registered in the wrong party has a deciding vote and uses it to help the other party out.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #102 on: December 20, 2021, 07:05:15 PM »
I don’t understand why the WH wouldn’t agree to that

Yes you do. It's a cornerstone of the agenda which has already been stripped down to the studs. It's not even a significant cost in the legislation. Letting Manchin drive the talking point of democrats dropped that provision because parents will spend the money on drugs would kill a party already seemingly on life support.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #103 on: December 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

Offline wiley

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #104 on: December 20, 2021, 07:31:11 PM »
I mean they could get creative and just lower the federal taxes taken out of parents paychecks of the qualifying incomes and it just stays in their pockets (vs to the govt accounts and then given back).  Because elected govt officials just spend it on war and drugs.
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Offline wiley

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #105 on: December 20, 2021, 08:01:50 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.
Sorry i should’ve posted a sarcasm warning.  I understand why increases happen, it’s usually 3.5% per year.  However, this one was handed to us midyear in a document a week or 2 before the increases hit (which was July, that’s why it felt so convenient) especially after my company hit everyone with a salary reduction.
I think the ctc thing is a good thing, because ive found that i am a crap teacher while trying to work from home.  And my children have done really well in the daycare environment.  So everyone that’s able to get their kids into something like daycare and other education opportunities is a great thing.  But had my son not loved the teachers, we probably would’ve move to another daycare.  Obviously the cost was offset by it, and when the ctc goes away, the cost aren’t going down.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #106 on: December 20, 2021, 09:04:31 PM »
"Our entire democracy is on the line,"   :lol: :lol: :lol:

The ProgFascists are in full blown meltdown.




Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #107 on: December 21, 2021, 02:39:04 AM »
the american people do not want to pay for kat kid's children.

https://twitter.com/LesserFrederick/status/1473020961825906691
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #108 on: December 21, 2021, 07:31:21 AM »



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2021, 10:41:36 AM »
the american people do not want to pay for kat kid's children.

https://twitter.com/LesserFrederick/status/1473020961825906691

Pretty amazing when we decide it's appropriate to govern by what's popular by the electorate and when we ignore wishes of the populace. If all of our current policies were dictated by populism there wouldn't be a need for the CTC, everything should be socialized.

I wonder what think tank tops the Dems that the CTC was the thing to draw a hardline at. The child poverty pandemic in this country didn't start in July and the CTC certainly isn't even a short term solution to the issue.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2021, 11:30:25 AM »
Did everyone see that the poll actually showed the BBB is popular?  Polling is dumb as crap.

Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2021, 12:59:54 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...


Offline Spracne

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #112 on: December 21, 2021, 01:14:23 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...

Sounds like you need a minimum of about 20 employees? Plus all the overheard (lots of it). I don't think the owners/employees of these places are rolling around in Lamborghinis laughing all the way to the bank. In fact, you've convinced me that this would not be a business I'd want to get into.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #113 on: December 21, 2021, 01:17:14 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...

Sounds like you need a minimum of about 20 employees? Plus all the overheard (lots of it). I don't think the owners/employees of these places are rolling around in Lamborghinis laughing all the way to the bank. In fact, you've convinced me that this would not be a business I'd want to get into.
To run a good one it is probably insanely hard and stressful and not overly compensated.  No thanks.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #114 on: December 21, 2021, 01:29:58 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...

The expenditures and revenues of child care centers are roughly the same for everyone. Wild variation in pricing is simply due to what the center thinks they can charge based on other centers in the area. Supply and demand is huge in the world of for profit centers, particularly for infants. Those infant rooms do cost more, because of mandates ratios, but those rates you cited are outrageous. Do you live in a Dallas suburb? What sucks the most about centers that charge tuitions like that is that it's rare for that money to filter it's way to the teachers. While the cost of labor is increasing, all of these centers are pulling from the same pool of employees. Because of the educational and training requirements, or lack thereof, of the teachers and the teachers assistants, there's no real need or desire to drive competition between centers for staff. If you're going with some fancy center like Primrose Schools or some local place in a cinder block building with old donated buses, their costs are the same and they likely are employing staff that have worked at another center at some point.

My first career was as an early childhood educator and as already stated I'm currently the board president of a center. All that being said all three of my children are products of home day cares. I know there is a stigma there but it's worth noting, especially in states where home day cares also have to be licensed, that the standards of care are exactly the same in a center than in a house.

Offline wiley

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #115 on: December 21, 2021, 03:08:13 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...

The expenditures and revenues of child care centers are roughly the same for everyone. Wild variation in pricing is simply due to what the center thinks they can charge based on other centers in the area. Supply and demand is huge in the world of for profit centers, particularly for infants. Those infant rooms do cost more, because of mandates ratios, but those rates you cited are outrageous. Do you live in a Dallas suburb? What sucks the most about centers that charge tuitions like that is that it's rare for that money to filter it's way to the teachers. While the cost of labor is increasing, all of these centers are pulling from the same pool of employees. Because of the educational and training requirements, or lack thereof, of the teachers and the teachers assistants, there's no real need or desire to drive competition between centers for staff. If you're going with some fancy center like Primrose Schools or some local place in a cinder block building with old donated buses, their costs are the same and they likely are employing staff that have worked at another center at some point.

My first career was as an early childhood educator and as already stated I'm currently the board president of a center. All that being said all three of my children are products of home day cares. I know there is a stigma there but it's worth noting, especially in states where home day cares also have to be licensed, that the standards of care are exactly the same in a center than in a house.
We are charged similar for an infant here in johnson county.  They say they try to compare cost in the area to set prices.  But i don’t have the time to call around and price shop and get my infant a spot, so i just accept it and only bitch on forums.
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Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #116 on: December 21, 2021, 03:31:16 PM »
No CTC is dog crap.
Daycare will just spike the cost like they did last year.  Our daycare raised the tuition cost 10% the month that the payments started being sent.  Impeccable timing if you ask me.  Look forward to another solid increase if this bill passes again.

First of all that's an incredibly silly reason not to support that legislation, the amount of children in private childcare in this country is a miniscule percentage. Secondly, I'm the president of a child care center board. I can assure you the price increase you incurred had nothing to do with tax credits that you didn't even get until July, and likely more to do with needing to increase revenues to make up for loss of enrollments and the increased cost of doing business. Outside of insurance, the two biggest expenditures for child care centers are staff salary and food, both of which skyrocketed in 2021.

I may be the only one, but I would be interested in a rough financial breakdown of a garden variety day care center's finances. We're now on kiddo No. 2 going through the system and after an awful experience meant an immediate withdrawal from a center last fall, we took the first infant slot available we could find and it's $1,800 per month. This center has three rooms with infants (6 infants in each room) and those three rooms alone are $30,000+ in revenue each month. Then, there's the other 10-15 rooms on top of that. Obviously, those $$$ aren't going to the horrifically paid teachers...

The expenditures and revenues of child care centers are roughly the same for everyone. Wild variation in pricing is simply due to what the center thinks they can charge based on other centers in the area. Supply and demand is huge in the world of for profit centers, particularly for infants. Those infant rooms do cost more, because of mandates ratios, but those rates you cited are outrageous. Do you live in a Dallas suburb? What sucks the most about centers that charge tuitions like that is that it's rare for that money to filter it's way to the teachers. While the cost of labor is increasing, all of these centers are pulling from the same pool of employees. Because of the educational and training requirements, or lack thereof, of the teachers and the teachers assistants, there's no real need or desire to drive competition between centers for staff. If you're going with some fancy center like Primrose Schools or some local place in a cinder block building with old donated buses, their costs are the same and they likely are employing staff that have worked at another center at some point.

My first career was as an early childhood educator and as already stated I'm currently the board president of a center. All that being said all three of my children are products of home day cares. I know there is a stigma there but it's worth noting, especially in states where home day cares also have to be licensed, that the standards of care are exactly the same in a center than in a house.
We are charged similar for an infant here in johnson county.  They say they try to compare cost in the area to set prices.  But i don’t have the time to call around and price shop and get my infant a spot, so i just accept it and only bitch on forums.

When we had to pull our kid (because of an investigation into abuse at one of the chain day care centers), so we were desperate and, luckily, immediately found an in-home that could take our kid, but only for two months. So, then the race was on to find an open slot for an infant. I probably called 15-20 places in Overland Park/Olathe/Leawood/Lenexa and found only two available spots that could take our kiddo within the next two months. I didn't have any personal restrictions other than I wanted to avoid a religiously-affiliated day care. The rates were all reasonably close - ranging from $1400-$2000 per month.

Back to the financials, I don't doubt that margins aren't great, but I just don't understand where all the money goes when you're charging close to $2,000 per kid (and, I know it's not going to the teachers). I mean, there has to be a reason why chains are popping up all over the place... Goddard, Primrose, La Petite, etc.

And, if anyone has your kid in a "The Learning Experience" chain anywhere, I'd suggest you find a new place. Lots of shady practices with that chain (and that's not even counting the abuse allegations).

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #117 on: December 21, 2021, 03:51:46 PM »
Any center with an owner and a director as different people will have you paying far more than you're getting elsewhere because there are several more expenditures that have nothing to do with the care of your child. Owner revenue, franchise fees, marketing budget, often higher insurance thresholds mandated by the parent company are all unnecessary things you're paying for with those centers.

And yeah, for the most part, shopping for price differences among for profit early childhood center chains in the same area won't be worth your time, like I said supply and demand. No one is going to undercut anyone else's pricing if everyone is filling spots. Frankly, a large part of this issue also falls on the consumer because research shows that parents often conflate lower rates with a lower standard of care.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2021, 04:03:23 PM »
Maybe you guys should make a daycare thread…

Offline Spracne

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #119 on: December 21, 2021, 04:11:34 PM »
Maybe you guys should make a daycare thread…

I kinda thought that's what the "bib" part of the title meant, but admittedly I have no fuckin clue what bib stands for. I was finally able to apply my brain power to figure out bbba after weeks or months of trying.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2021, 08:41:34 PM »
Maybe you guys should make a daycare thread…


Offline sys

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #121 on: December 22, 2021, 03:12:32 AM »
admittedly I have no fuckin clue what bib stands for. I was finally able to apply my brain power to figure out bbba after weeks or months of trying.

bipartisan infrastructure bill, although i guess it's not a bill anymore, so the title is outdated.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #122 on: December 22, 2021, 01:14:01 PM »
I know we have a lot of yuk yuks here but the us welfare state is awful and the CTC gave a shred of dignity to millions of people and it will be snatched away.  I’ve said a million times means testing is bad, but I’d be fine with taxing it back/phasing it out over $150K or whatever the number is.  The federal free lunch program and the CTC should be made permanent. Child poverty does not have to be a thing in the US, it is a choice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/22/child-tax-credit-end-manchin/

Offline Justwin

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2021, 01:28:53 PM »
I know we have a lot of yuk yuks here but the us welfare state is awful and the CTC gave a shred of dignity to millions of people and it will be snatched away.  I’ve said a million times means testing is bad, but I’d be fine with taxing it back/phasing it out over $150K or whatever the number is.  The federal free lunch program and the CTC should be made permanent. Child poverty does not have to be a thing in the US, it is a choice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/22/child-tax-credit-end-manchin/

What are your thoughts on the Romney child allowance plan?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: bbba and bib discussion.
« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2021, 01:34:15 PM »
It has been awhile since I looked at it but I thought romneys plan was much better in that it went through social security admin so it was much more likely to catch non filers and would be much more efficient at distribution. I think he had some bullshit workfare stuff and wanted to like eliminate food stamps or something, but I would be overjoyed if they were able to work something out with Romney and then tell Manchin to eff himself.

I kind of doubt the moron dem think tank crowd that has been working on the CTC since clinton Will like it, or Biden is up for actually grasping all the details, but the Romney plan at its basics gets my endorsement and I think I am on the record as reporting Matt bruenig’s take about why it was better for kids in poverty.