The Biden (interim) Dictator

[wetwillie]

I thought MIR was saying the working class was rightfully pissed off about student loan forgiveness, not the other way around.

The working class (should be) are pissed about unfettered PPP loan forgiveness. By the way, forgiveness given before corporations had to make payments. Those who are getting student loan forgiveness have been making and will continue to make payments after the forgiveness occurs.

Didn’t the working class likely benefit by remaining employed at their jobs when otherwise they would have lost them if not for the PPP loans?  I thought that whole thing was basically a cash transfer to payrolls that was intended to never be paid back if you followed the preset guidelines? I’m sure there was an assload of graft but these two scenarios seem to be non related.

In some cases, yes. In all cases, the employer benefitted by having their payroll covered, though, and there really isn't any reason they shouldn't be repaying the loans now.

I mean the whole thing was essentially “we are shutting down your business for the overall public safety until we can address this pandemic, here is some money to tide you over while your revenues get tanked from it”. If companies were double dipping and didn’t see revenue losses and took fat stacks then yea by all means make them pay it back. 

[MakeItRain]

I thought MIR was saying the working class was rightfully pissed off about student loan forgiveness, not the other way around.

The working class (should be) are pissed about unfettered PPP loan forgiveness. By the way, forgiveness given before corporations had to make payments. Those who are getting student loan forgiveness have been making and will continue to make payments after the forgiveness occurs.

Didn’t the working class likely benefit by remaining employed at their jobs when otherwise they would have lost them if not for the PPP loans?  I thought that whole thing was basically a cash transfer to payrolls that was intended to never be paid back if you followed the preset guidelines? I’m sure there was an assload of graft but these two scenarios seem to be non related.

That was the intent of PPP loans, yeah. Some jobs were saved by PPP, absolutely. There were also widespread abuses of the loans, companies who received loans and still laid off workers, broad inequities on how the loans were doled out, and banks made a killing off of them.

I don't have an issue with PPP loans. My issue with them are people and businesses who didn't use them the way they were intended and corporations who got them when they didn't need them. My bigger issue is that the government knew about the abuses and weaknesses of those loans but didn't target forgiveness.

I also think that the people who are worried about the effect that student loan forgiveness will have on inflation, loans in a lot of cases that were given 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Haven't thought boo about the PPP loans given, money that are on our streets right this very second.

[wetwillie]

I thought MIR was saying the working class was rightfully pissed off about student loan forgiveness, not the other way around.

The working class (should be) are pissed about unfettered PPP loan forgiveness. By the way, forgiveness given before corporations had to make payments. Those who are getting student loan forgiveness have been making and will continue to make payments after the forgiveness occurs.

Didn’t the working class likely benefit by remaining employed at their jobs when otherwise they would have lost them if not for the PPP loans?  I thought that whole thing was basically a cash transfer to payrolls that was intended to never be paid back if you followed the preset guidelines? I’m sure there was an assload of graft but these two scenarios seem to be non related.

That was the intent of PPP loans, yeah. Some jobs were saved by PPP, absolutely. There were also widespread abuses of the loans, companies who received loans and still laid off workers, broad inequities on how the loans were doled out, and banks made a killing off of them.

I don't have an issue with PPP loans. My issue with them are people and businesses who didn't use them the way they were intended and corporations who got them when they didn't need them. My bigger issue is that the government knew about the abuses and weaknesses of those loans but didn't target forgiveness.

I also think that the people who are worried about the effect that student loan forgiveness will have on inflation, loans in a lot of cases that were given 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Haven't thought boo about the PPP loans given, money that are on our streets right this very second.

Oh yes totally agree, the PPP was like 3X the amount of cash infusion. 

[sys]

there really isn't any reason they shouldn't be repaying the loans now.

they shouldn't be repaying those loans because they were never intended to be repaid.  they were grants structured as loans because that was the only way the federal govt had of getting the money out the door quickly at a time when getting money out to prevent massive unemployment, defaults, unpaid rents, etc which almost certainly would have precipitated a recession was correctly viewed as very time-sensitive.

it was a poor way to move the money out and there was a lot of money spent that wasn't needed as well as far more fraud than is desirable and the govt should now be putting structures in place so that they can better target and deliver funds when the next emergency arrives, but trying to either shame recipients or to retroactively demand repayment on funds that were accepted on the basis that they would not need to be repaid if used for the purposes directed is not fair.

it was also far better than the alternative of not having spent that money at that time, and we shouldn't forget that.

[sys]

Oh yes totally agree, the PPP was like 3X the amount of cash infusion.

the admin is refusing to disclose the cost of cancelling student loans, but on an absolute scale it's likely that ppp was more like 1.2-1.7ish the cost of student loan cancellation.

in terms of inflation effects, the difference is far more than 3x because ppp hit over a short time period (along with trillions more of other support/stimulus) while the effects of student loan cancellation will be diffused over a longer period.

[sys]

I thought MIR was saying the working class was rightfully pissed off about student loan forgiveness, not the other way around.

i saw this earlier today and it's both amusing and apropos here.

https://twitter.com/DrMikeH49/status/1563193380410077185

[sys]

it is very funny that student loan forgiveness is the thing for you to break character and mount your steed and ride.

you've interacted with me enough that you should know that my position on student loan cancellation is highly consistent with my "character" and the politics that i espouse.

[MakeItRain]

I don't consider myself working class, at all. I grew up in a trailer with a phone booth in the parking lot of the trailer park as our house phone. Both my mother and step father had full time jobs. I know what the working class is, I spent around 35 years of my life in it. I'm not now.

Nice generalization though.

[sys]

I hope sys is right and that this turns out to be an uncharacteristically shrewd and successful ploy that helps Democrats win more elections.

i didn't say that it would help them win elections.  i said that a faction of their coalition was insisting on it as their share of the spoils for supporting dems.


my guess is that it will probably be a non-factor or at worst a minor factor in '22, so at least less toxic than salt relief.

[Dr Rick Daris]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

[sonofdaxjones]

Using the #blueanon Soleimani reaction doctrine (translated, only our people can take out bad guys for political gain, otherwise we must work the circuit and convince people we're all going to die). 

World War III is an inevitability at this point.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/politics/us-syria-airstrikes/index.html

[sonofdaxjones]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose. 

[Dr Rick Daris]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

[sonofdaxjones]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

Your post is the living embodiment of "cool story bro". 

[Kat Kid]

it is very funny that student loan forgiveness is the thing for you to break character and mount your steed and ride.

you've interacted with me enough that you should know that my position on student loan cancellation is highly consistent with my "character" and the politics that i espouse.

I meant character in terms of your posting style, not that you weren’t sincere. Go re-read your first post.

You were about to charge a hill with an American flag.

[Dr Rick Daris]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

Your post is the living embodiment of "cool story bro".

It was much more than that. I’m very happy with other people getting cool stuff and free money even if I don’t and I don’t understand people who aren’t the same way. I’m guessing they have brain malfunctions but don’t know if the science is there to prove it.

[sonofdaxjones]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

Your post is the living embodiment of "cool story bro".

It was much more than that. I’m very happy with other people getting cool stuff and free money even if I don’t and I don’t understand people who aren’t the same way. I’m guessing they have brain malfunctions but don’t know if the science is there to prove it.

You used the word "outrage".  For many people there isn't outrage at debt forgiveness there's "outrage" at the mechanisms that drove the need for debt forgiveness.

If you're happy that your bud used taxpayer money in the middle of a crippling pandemic where people were losing their jobs and didn't have food . . . to buy a vacation home, knock yourself out.  I suppose we could say he helped drive a component of the economy.

[Dr Rick Daris]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

Your post is the living embodiment of "cool story bro".

It was much more than that. I’m very happy with other people getting cool stuff and free money even if I don’t and I don’t understand people who aren’t the same way. I’m guessing they have brain malfunctions but don’t know if the science is there to prove it.

You used the word "outrage".  For many people there isn't outrage at debt forgiveness there's "outrage" at the mechanisms that drove the need for debt forgiveness.

If you're happy that your bud used taxpayer money in the middle of a crippling pandemic where people were losing their jobs and didn't have food . . . to buy a vacation home, knock yourself out.  I suppose we could say he helped drive a component of the economy.

I’m happy when good things happen to everyone Dax. It isn’t contingent on whether they are my friends or not or whether I’m included in the group that’s getting the free stuff. I can also walk and chew gum at the same time and am capable of being happy for all the people that got free ppp money while simultaneously being bummed for the people who didn’t fare as well during the pandemic. My hunch is that is not possible for you to understand though so we can move past it.

In terms of colleges being expensive, maybe the government can go back to funding it more on the front end like they used to so things like loan forgiveness on the back end isn’t as necessary/helpful. Lastly, if it’s just “outrage” the word that’s bothering you, feel free to replace it with a different but similar word. I’m not attached to it.

[sys]

I meant character in terms of your posting style, not that you weren’t sincere. Go re-read your first post.

You were about to charge a hill with an American flag.

what first post?

[kim carnes]

Guys, daris’ buddy is a pos who took 500k of taxpayer money so student loan forgiveness is fine.  Makes sense.

[sonofdaxjones]

ppp loan anecdotes with Rick Daris- I’m really really close friends with two dudes who each got close to half a million in ppp money for businesses that weren’t effected by Covid and that didn’t have to be paid back. One used it to buy a vacation house in Colorado that I’ve now been to three times and the other bought in on a 700 acre working ranch in Texas. I was super happy for both of them but I am always happy when good things happen to other humans. The whole outrage over some student loan debt being forgiven is simultaneously hilarious and dumbfounding to me because I could live to be a million years old and still not understand how one human could be angry that another human had something good happen to them.

If you're going to use the term "outrage" as all encompassing then you've missed the point about the concern regarding precedence as well as the discussion about the root cause as to why student loan debt is even an issue in these United States.   Without thinking about it, you're giving tacit approval for colleges and universities to drive a cost structure that outstrips inflation by ridiculous percentages and based on what we know at this time.  They're going to be able to keep right on doing it without oversight, without question. 

Great deal for them, I suppose.

Dax- I don’t miss any points and stopped reading your response after you suggested I did.

Your post is the living embodiment of "cool story bro".

It was much more than that. I’m very happy with other people getting cool stuff and free money even if I don’t and I don’t understand people who aren’t the same way. I’m guessing they have brain malfunctions but don’t know if the science is there to prove it.

You used the word "outrage".  For many people there isn't outrage at debt forgiveness there's "outrage" at the mechanisms that drove the need for debt forgiveness.

If you're happy that your bud used taxpayer money in the middle of a crippling pandemic where people were losing their jobs and didn't have food . . . to buy a vacation home, knock yourself out.  I suppose we could say he helped drive a component of the economy.

I’m happy when good things happen to everyone Dax. It isn’t contingent on whether they are my friends or not or whether I’m included in the group that’s getting the free stuff. I can also walk and chew gum at the same time and am capable of being happy for all the people that got free ppp money while simultaneously being bummed for the people who didn’t fare as well during the pandemic. My hunch is that is not possible for you to understand though so we can move past it.

In terms of colleges being expensive, maybe the government can go back to funding it more on the front end like they used to so things like loan forgiveness on the back end isn’t as necessary/helpful. Lastly, if it’s just “outrage” the word that’s bothering you, feel free to replace it with a different but similar word. I’m not attached to it.

You used your friend as an example, and thus, I used your friend as an example.  That has nothing to do with me being happy or not happy with all people who got free money.  To paraphrase one of the sheriffs in Smoky and the Bandit, it was germane to the situation.

[MakeItRain]

Guys, daris’ buddy is a pos who took 500k of taxpayer money so student loan forgiveness is fine.  Makes sense.

You very much missed the moral of that story.

[Kat Kid]

I meant character in terms of your posting style, not that you weren’t sincere. Go re-read your first post.

You were about to charge a hill with an American flag.

what first post?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Spracne]

I am shocked that some people are using "outrage" as an all-encompassing term. I've never seen that before.

[sys]

i feel like being opinionated and abrasive is pretty consistent with my posting style, but maybe others perceive me differently.  dunno.