Author Topic: The Biden (interim) Dictator  (Read 303434 times)

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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2200 on: June 19, 2021, 07:51:43 PM »
The federal loan system caps certain loans based on what your parents make. Assuming they can help out, which many can’t. If you want a federal college loan you’re better off being poor, because then they grant you grants & higher loans you can take out. If your parents  made an income as a medium tier income, they gift you less accessibility to federal loans, forcing kids into private loans to cover the rest.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2201 on: June 19, 2021, 08:09:19 PM »
The one thing that is an indisputable fact is that rough ridin' boomers had their college education incredibly subsidized and you have to remind them of that constantly because they forget, especially when they are talking about “working through college” to pay for it.
Could you explain that please?

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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2202 on: June 19, 2021, 08:23:32 PM »
The federal loan system caps certain loans based on what your parents make. Assuming they can help out, which many can’t. If you want a federal college loan you’re better off being poor, because then they grant you grants & higher loans you can take out. If your parents  made an income as a medium tier income, they gift you less accessibility to federal loans, forcing kids into private loans to cover the rest.
btw, this is basic crap about the system. Can’t wait to share more. @sys wanting open borders for the cartel & not understanding the current robbery of the current education system is honestly, bad ass & endearing. :love:

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2203 on: June 19, 2021, 08:34:28 PM »
SYS would rather give to people who aren’t citizens & frowns upon ppl who live here, trying to act like we’re too privileged living in this country and wanting affordable education. It’s amazing. During the current federal loan system, they’ll be treated better than Ppl who’ve lived in the states since day 1!

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2204 on: June 19, 2021, 09:08:04 PM »
you have me mistaken for another poster if you think i think it's bad that we only subsidize student loans for poor people and not for everyone else too.

i'm all for rooting out inefficiencies and for universities exercising some discipline to control spiraling costs, but fundamentally educating people is an expensive proposition and someone has to pay for it.  whether through taxes or tuition, people that can pay, should pay.

and i don't mind leaning a little heavier on the tuition side of that equation either. 
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Offline Spracne

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2205 on: June 19, 2021, 09:25:19 PM »
The federal government should have the ability to put caps on tuition at public universities, at least in terms of lending purposes. For private universities, the federal government should be able to accomplish a similar outcome by tying the amount of federal aid to an index that is based on the actual salaries of recent graduates. College is an investment, and it makes sense that the cost of college should be tied to expected returns. The wealthy are of course free to pay whatever sticker price the universities set without regards to these standards. I'm sure the reporting on graduate salaries, broken down by concentration, would not be overly cumbersome. You could roll the obligation to report to your university into a loan covenant.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2206 on: June 19, 2021, 10:01:30 PM »
you have me mistaken for another poster if you think i think it's bad that we only subsidize student loans for poor people and not for everyone else too.

i'm all for rooting out inefficiencies and for universities exercising some discipline to control spiraling costs, but fundamentally educating people is an expensive proposition and someone has to pay for it.  whether through taxes or tuition, people that can pay, should pay.

and i don't mind leaning a little heavier on the tuition side of that equation either.
1. Great reply
2. I can 100% tell you never picked up a tab in college, at least tuition.

3. K-State for 4 years right now is worth 70K!

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2207 on: June 19, 2021, 10:11:06 PM »
The federal government should have the ability to put caps on tuition at public universities, at least in terms of lending purposes. For private universities, the federal government should be able to accomplish a similar outcome by tying the amount of federal aid to an index that is based on the actual salaries of recent graduates. College is an investment, and it makes sense that the cost of college should be tied to expected returns. The wealthy are of course free to pay whatever sticker price the universities set without regards to these standards. I'm sure the reporting on graduate salaries, broken down by concentration, would not be overly cumbersome. You could roll the obligation to report to your university into a loan covenant.
It’s rolled out for lazy ppl who never take advantage of it. You know this though.
 

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2208 on: June 19, 2021, 10:21:46 PM »
Listen, the people who benefited off of it, because mom & dad picked up the tab will say it’s a great system. The rest won’t.

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2209 on: June 19, 2021, 10:39:54 PM »
The federal government should have the ability to put caps on tuition at public universities, at least in terms of lending purposes. For private universities, the federal government should be able to accomplish a similar outcome by tying the amount of federal aid to an index that is based on the actual salaries of recent graduates. College is an investment, and it makes sense that the cost of college should be tied to expected returns. The wealthy are of course free to pay whatever sticker price the universities set without regards to these standards. I'm sure the reporting on graduate salaries, broken down by concentration, would not be overly cumbersome. You could roll the obligation to report to your university into a loan covenant.
It’s rolled out for lazy ppl who never take advantage of it. You know this though.
 

I don't think I understand your reply. Separately, I didn't have any undergrad debt (scholarships & grants), but I had grad school debt north of 120K, so I'm not unfamiliar with the system. However, my comments were largely directed towards undergrad, rather than grad school.

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2210 on: June 19, 2021, 10:42:37 PM »
The federal government should have the ability to put caps on tuition at public universities, at least in terms of lending purposes. For private universities, the federal government should be able to accomplish a similar outcome by tying the amount of federal aid to an index that is based on the actual salaries of recent graduates. College is an investment, and it makes sense that the cost of college should be tied to expected returns. The wealthy are of course free to pay whatever sticker price the universities set without regards to these standards. I'm sure the reporting on graduate salaries, broken down by concentration, would not be overly cumbersome. You could roll the obligation to report to your university into a loan covenant.
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires


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Online MakeItRain

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2211 on: June 20, 2021, 03:32:23 AM »
The federal government should have the ability to put caps on tuition at public universities, at least in terms of lending purposes. For private universities, the federal government should be able to accomplish a similar outcome by tying the amount of federal aid to an index that is based on the actual salaries of recent graduates. College is an investment, and it makes sense that the cost of college should be tied to expected returns. The wealthy are of course free to pay whatever sticker price the universities set without regards to these standards. I'm sure the reporting on graduate salaries, broken down by concentration, would not be overly cumbersome. You could roll the obligation to report to your university into a loan covenant.
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires


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Not even necessary, just eliminate tax avoidance. The tax rate, for the rich, is currently insignificant.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2212 on: June 20, 2021, 06:25:41 AM »
The one thing that is an indisputable fact is that rough ridin' boomers had their college education incredibly subsidized and you have to remind them of that constantly because they forget, especially when they are talking about “working through college” to pay for it.
Could you explain that please?

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Sus basically explained the main drivers of inflation for education, people just disagree about which is more important.  Obviously plenty of people here are looking at loan supply as driving cost increases too but as far as cost inputs, I think that is broadly it.

I think looking at state support of higher Ed is pretty instructive.

I’m sure there are better graphs out there but figures 7 and 8 tell the story I believe in.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/funding-down-tuition-up

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2213 on: June 20, 2021, 07:37:29 AM »
The one thing that is an indisputable fact is that rough ridin' boomers had their college education incredibly subsidized and you have to remind them of that constantly because they forget, especially when they are talking about “working through college” to pay for it.
Could you explain that please?

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Sus basically explained the main drivers of inflation for education, people just disagree about which is more important.  Obviously plenty of people here are looking at loan supply as driving cost increases too but as far as cost inputs, I think that is broadly it.

I think looking at state support of higher Ed is pretty instructive.

I’m sure there are better graphs out there but figures 7 and 8 tell the story I believe in.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/funding-down-tuition-up
Makes sense.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2214 on: June 20, 2021, 07:44:06 AM »
Certainly looks like a combination of things have combined to drive higher education costs. To me, college loan programs have a predatory feel to them. If you have a college age kid, then your mailbox is full of easy money junk mail.

Throw in a stagnant minimum wage with the lower state funding and you have some difficult decisions to make as an 18 y/o not equipped to make decisions like that.

If you can talk your kid into it, JuCo and live at home to get the ball rolling will save a lot of money. They may opt into a 2 yr tech program and be making bank by 21. Might decide to pursue something higher but it will likely be a well planned decision by that point.

As parents, we have to help them make these decisions logically. Will be a challenge for some posters. ;)

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2215 on: June 20, 2021, 08:01:39 AM »
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires

Not even necessary, just eliminate tax avoidance. The tax rate, for the rich, is currently insignificant.

I don't know what the exact relationship is, but it is absolutely true that at the time boomers/gen x were paying so much less for college, rich people were paying WAY, WAY more in taxes.

The reason rich people paid more taxes back then: Democrats. The reason they no longer do: Republicans. D and R politics/policies on taxing the rich haven't changed direction since.

Offline CNS

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2216 on: June 20, 2021, 10:10:34 AM »
Seems like a good first step would be for college loans to all be federal loans with super low interest/no interest.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2217 on: June 20, 2021, 10:35:32 AM »
Seems like a good first step would be for college loans to all be federal loans with super low interest/no interest.
Wouldn’t address my biggest concern, unless the government started negotiating tuition rates in connection with the loans. Most common sense to me is along the lines of what Spracne said, have the federal (and by extension state) government start footing a greater proportion of the tuition bill paid by taxpayer dollars and place meaningful caps on tuition.

I think that addresses all the main drivers of costs discussed already. “Administrative bloat” to me is more of a symptom of our crappy policies than a direct driver of tuition costs.

Offline bucket

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2218 on: June 20, 2021, 12:01:11 PM »
The one thing that is an indisputable fact is that rough ridin' boomers had their college education incredibly subsidized and you have to remind them of that constantly because they forget, especially when they are talking about “working through college” to pay for it.
Could you explain that please?

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Sus basically explained the main drivers of inflation for education, people just disagree about which is more important.  Obviously plenty of people here are looking at loan supply as driving cost increases too but as far as cost inputs, I think that is broadly it.

I think looking at state support of higher Ed is pretty instructive.

I’m sure there are better graphs out there but figures 7 and 8 tell the story I believe in.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/funding-down-tuition-up
Makes sense.

Federal funding has plummeted too. The early 90's were the peak.

Subsidized was the correct term regarding higher education for boomers. It now falls on students, via tuition, to run universities.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 12:05:27 PM by bucket »

Offline nicname

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2219 on: June 20, 2021, 05:14:30 PM »
Grunch

State schools moving from academic leadership to more business-like administrators and mindsets also played a big roll in the increase imo.

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2220 on: June 20, 2021, 10:15:13 PM »
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires

Not even necessary, just eliminate tax avoidance. The tax rate, for the rich, is currently insignificant.

I don't know what the exact relationship is, but it is absolutely true that at the time boomers/gen x were paying so much less for college, rich people were paying WAY, WAY more in taxes.

The reason rich people paid more taxes back then: Democrats. The reason they no longer do: Republicans. D and R politics/policies on taxing the rich haven't changed direction since.

They are both equally responsible. Biden saying they would pump up the irs enforcement staff was a shot at the earners from $250,000 up but that will do nothing for the uber rich because their tax shelters are, for the most part legal, with semi-truck sized loopholes.

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2221 on: June 20, 2021, 10:38:49 PM »
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires

Not even necessary, just eliminate tax avoidance. The tax rate, for the rich, is currently insignificant.

I don't know what the exact relationship is, but it is absolutely true that at the time boomers/gen x were paying so much less for college, rich people were paying WAY, WAY more in taxes.

The reason rich people paid more taxes back then: Democrats. The reason they no longer do: Republicans. D and R politics/policies on taxing the rich haven't changed direction since.

They are both equally responsible. Biden saying they would pump up the irs enforcement staff was a shot at the earners from $250,000 up but that will do nothing for the uber rich because their tax shelters are, for the most part legal, with semi-truck sized loopholes.

Well, look. You only get two choices. And only one side has people who are willing to something about that. The two sides are not equal on this issue. Not historically. Not now.

Offline Spracne

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2222 on: June 20, 2021, 11:20:50 PM »
I thought Biden said $400K? What is this 250 business?

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2223 on: June 21, 2021, 02:17:27 AM »
Agree, tax the everloving eff out of billionaires

Not even necessary, just eliminate tax avoidance. The tax rate, for the rich, is currently insignificant.

I don't know what the exact relationship is, but it is absolutely true that at the time boomers/gen x were paying so much less for college, rich people were paying WAY, WAY more in taxes.

The reason rich people paid more taxes back then: Democrats. The reason they no longer do: Republicans. D and R politics/policies on taxing the rich haven't changed direction since.

They are both equally responsible. Biden saying they would pump up the irs enforcement staff was a shot at the earners from $250,000 up but that will do nothing for the uber rich because their tax shelters are, for the most part legal, with semi-truck sized loopholes.

Well, look. You only get two choices. And only one side has people who are willing to something about that. The two sides are not equal on this issue. Not historically. Not now.

Dems don't get a pass because they're sitting on their asses not upsetting the apple cart hoping the issue will just fix itself. The party has consistently pushed non corporatists like Sanders and Porter to the fringes.

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Re: The Biden (interim) Dictator
« Reply #2224 on: June 21, 2021, 02:19:34 AM »
I thought Biden said $400K? What is this 250 business?

I was speaking of the people most likely to come under scrutiny from an increased irs tax enforcement staff. That's actually likely to be families over $100,000 if we're being honest, really any regular Joe or Jane not taking the standard deduction.