The Biden (interim) Dictator

[kim carnes]

A mileage tax that replaced the gas tax would be something like $0.015 per mile for a typical 4 door sedan, fwiw.

They don’t actually verify your mileage though

It'd be easy to verify in Texas because you have to get your car inspected every year and the mileage is recorded at that time.

Damn, what a pain in the ass.  No freedoms in tx

[Institutional Control]

A mileage tax that replaced the gas tax would be something like $0.015 per mile for a typical 4 door sedan, fwiw.

They don’t actually verify your mileage though

It'd be easy to verify in Texas because you have to get your car inspected every year and the mileage is recorded at that time.

Damn, what a pain in the ass.  No freedoms in tx

It is a giant pain in the ass. Limits the number of beaters on the road though. 

[Justwin]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

[Rage Against the McKee]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

The fuel tax only covers about 1/4 of total KDOT funds. Kansas fuel tax is about $0.24 per gallon. So a vehicle averaging 30 mpg pays a tax (to Kansas) of about $0.008 per mile. The state+federal gas tax is closer to $0.014. The Kansas Turnpike costs about $0.06 per mile.

[Justwin]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

The fuel tax only covers about 1/4 of total KDOT funds. Kansas fuel tax is about $0.24 per gallon. So a vehicle averaging 30 mpg pays a tax (to Kansas) of about $0.008 per mile. The state+federal gas tax is closer to $0.014. The Kansas Turnpike costs about $0.06 per mile.

With KTAG, the turnpike cost is more like $0.048 after you get your KTAG discount.  If you're driving a vehicle that averages 20 MPG that works out to $0.012 per mile for a quarter of KDOT funds.  To fully fund KDOT, you would need $0.048 per mile.  To fund all of the roads then you also need at least the $0.014 per mile from the federal fuel tax plus whatever federal highway spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.  It seems like the turnpike is an ok deal in that light

Even the 30 MPG car is a total of $0.032 per mile for KDOT plus the federal $0.014.  That's a total of $0.046 per mile plus whatever federal spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.

My main concern with the registration fees funding the roads vs tolls or fuel taxes is how out-of-state semis going to be charged for their use of highways.

[LickNeckey]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

yeah well we tried that Brownback thing and it sucked

[Rage Against the McKee]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

The fuel tax only covers about 1/4 of total KDOT funds. Kansas fuel tax is about $0.24 per gallon. So a vehicle averaging 30 mpg pays a tax (to Kansas) of about $0.008 per mile. The state+federal gas tax is closer to $0.014. The Kansas Turnpike costs about $0.06 per mile.

With KTAG, the turnpike cost is more like $0.048 after you get your KTAG discount.  If you're driving a vehicle that averages 20 MPG that works out to $0.012 per mile for a quarter of KDOT funds.  To fully fund KDOT, you would need $0.048 per mile.  To fund all of the roads then you also need at least the $0.014 per mile from the federal fuel tax plus whatever federal highway spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.  It seems like the turnpike is an ok deal in that light

Even the 30 MPG car is a total of $0.032 per mile for KDOT plus the federal $0.014.  That's a total of $0.046 per mile plus whatever federal spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.

My main concern with the registration fees funding the roads vs tolls or fuel taxes is how out-of-state semis going to be charged for their use of highways.

I would argue that a 20 mph vehicle probably weighs about twice as much as most 30 mpg vehicles and should pay a higher rate. The biggest issue with the privatization idea is that rural roads will never be feasible for a private organization to maintain. There is always going to be some need for a government entity to collect taxes in some form so that public access can be maintained statewide. So you end up paying the toll, plus a higher tax on tags, income, and property to cover that overhead. Electric vehicles are starting to get heavier, and there needs to be a way for people who drive them to pay their share of the road maintenance cost. Otherwise, the cost will continue to shift to personal property. If you favor use taxes against property taxes, you should favor shifting the tax on gasoline to a tax on mileage.

[Justwin]

The libertarians missed something because their way is supposed to be cheaper and more efficient than the government way.

The turnpike in Kansas between Topeka and Kansas City is in a lot better shape than other parts of I-70.

Do current fuel taxes pay for all newly built roads and maintenance/replacement?

The fuel tax only covers about 1/4 of total KDOT funds. Kansas fuel tax is about $0.24 per gallon. So a vehicle averaging 30 mpg pays a tax (to Kansas) of about $0.008 per mile. The state+federal gas tax is closer to $0.014. The Kansas Turnpike costs about $0.06 per mile.

With KTAG, the turnpike cost is more like $0.048 after you get your KTAG discount.  If you're driving a vehicle that averages 20 MPG that works out to $0.012 per mile for a quarter of KDOT funds.  To fully fund KDOT, you would need $0.048 per mile.  To fund all of the roads then you also need at least the $0.014 per mile from the federal fuel tax plus whatever federal highway spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.  It seems like the turnpike is an ok deal in that light

Even the 30 MPG car is a total of $0.032 per mile for KDOT plus the federal $0.014.  That's a total of $0.046 per mile plus whatever federal spending isn't covered by fuel taxes.

My main concern with the registration fees funding the roads vs tolls or fuel taxes is how out-of-state semis going to be charged for their use of highways.

I would argue that a 20 mph vehicle probably weighs about twice as much as most 30 mpg vehicles and should pay a higher rate. The biggest issue with the privatization idea is that rural roads will never be feasible for a private organization to maintain. There is always going to be some need for a government entity to collect taxes in some form so that public access can be maintained statewide. So you end up paying the toll, plus a higher tax on tags, income, and property to cover that overhead. Electric vehicles are starting to get heavier, and there needs to be a way for people who drive them to pay their share of the road maintenance cost. Otherwise, the cost will continue to shift to personal property. If you favor use taxes against property taxes, you should favor shifting the tax on gasoline to a tax on mileage.

I would definitely favor use taxes over property taxes and gas taxes and agree that you need to have some collections for rural roads and smaller highways.  I would favor tolling the interstates in combination with the use taxes in order to force out of state semis to pay for their use of the highways.  We already have the overhead for the KTA, so it could be rolled into that.

If there is a way to force out of state semis for their use of the roads with a use tax, then I would be pretty indifferent between that and tolling.

[Kat Kid]

Raising rates on trucking just makes delivery more expensive and that gets passed on to every consumer. I get that there is a philosophy at work here, but I think just making a big gas tax in the short term would be smartest for a lot of reasons.  Once electrics are more than a fringe, you deal with that, but the faster we transition the better.

[kim carnes]

Raising rates on trucking just makes delivery more expensive and that gets passed on to every consumer. I get that there is a philosophy at work here, but I think just making a big gas tax in the short term would be smartest for a lot of reasons.  Once electrics are more than a fringe, you deal with that, but the faster we transition the better.

So people who consume more have to pay more?  I think we may be onto something here.

[Cire]

https://twitter.com/potus/status/1370556248773509121?s=21


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[Kat Kid]

Raising rates on trucking just makes delivery more expensive and that gets passed on to every consumer. I get that there is a philosophy at work here, but I think just making a big gas tax in the short term would be smartest for a lot of reasons.  Once electrics are more than a fringe, you deal with that, but the faster we transition the better.

So people who consume more have to pay more?  I think we may be onto something here.

Again, I don't have a super strong opinion on use tax or no, but I lean toward a use tax of some kind.  I think we do need to spend more on infrastructure and also that we should strongly encourage EV and discourage gas consumption, so a gas tax makes the most sense to me, along with some more incentives for people to buy EVs.

I think usage fees are overall fine, but often times libertarians get excited about them because they really just want to privatize the roads. I am very opposed to selling off public assets to private companies like Chicago just did and would oppose KTA going that route

[sys]

If you favor use taxes against property taxes, you should favor shifting the tax on gasoline to a tax on mileage.

a mileage tax is clunky and cumbersome.  all vehicles use fuel of some sort, just tax the fuel, be it electricity, hydrogen, ethanol, diesel, gasoline or whatever.

agree with katkid that for now, it is more important to incentivize uptake of ev's than precisely account for each vehicle's use, so no hurry to implement taxes on alternative fuels.

[Kat Kid]

I also should be clear that I am just talking about what we should do if we didn't live in a slowly failing empire where almost nothing can ever change because the politics of a gas tax are probably still bad, although not nearly as bad as 10 years ago.

[steve dave]

ty for your contribution nihilist kid


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[kim carnes]

I also should be clear that I am just talking about what we should do if we didn't live in a slowly failing empire where almost nothing can ever change because the politics of a gas tax are probably still bad, although not nearly as bad as 10 years ago.

Out of curiosity, which countries do you think are thriving or excelling?

[Kat Kid]

The Nordic countries are the obvious choices for how to run a welfare state, but I think most of Europe has come to terms with ending their empires better than I think the US is/will.

I am actually being a bit more pessimistic than I should be as the domestic Biden agenda would be really good if it gets done, I just have serious doubts about it and the constant invoking of these insane little barriers to change our democracy has allowed are bad signs (the parliamentarian, cloture and a bunch of other dumb senate crap).

I mean at the end of the day, we had an election between two guys who had melting brains so it is hard to take an overly optimistic view, but I am watching for what happens over the next year and would be very happy to see infrastructure and a voting rights bill.

[Cire]

Billionaire tax. It’s so simple.


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[sonofdaxjones]

The EU is in shambles.

[wetwillie]

The EU is in shambles.

We will rescue them, we always do.

[star seed 7]

As far as I know*, the kta is already privately held.

*source: a cop pulled me over doing 100 and was really angry and yelled at me and told me it's a private road and I can get #banned from using it.

[Kat Kid]

As far as I know*, the kta is already privately held.

*source: a cop pulled me over doing 100 and was really angry and yelled at me and told me it's a private road and I can get #banned from using it.

I don’t think so, KTA is kind of separate from KDOT because it has its own revenue stream but it is publicly owned, just has some aspects that make it more biz like.  Maybe someone else can explain more clearly, I have read the “about us” page before and that’s the extent of my knowledge.

[sys]

http://www.kslegresearch.org/KLRD-web/Publications/BriefingBook/2020Briefs/M-2-KansasTurnpike-TheRelationshipBetweenKTAandKDOT.pdf

sounds like it's similar to the usps.  in california, the high speed rail authority is a similar legal structure that i'm familiar with.  personally, i'd rather these things be explicitly owned and operated by elected govt and supported by tax revenues.

[MakeItRain]

A mileage tax that replaced the gas tax would be something like $0.015 per mile for a typical 4 door sedan, fwiw.

They don’t actually verify your mileage though

It'd be easy to verify in Texas because you have to get your car inspected every year and the mileage is recorded at that time.

Damn, what a pain in the ass.  No freedoms in tx

It is a giant pain in the ass. Limits the number of beaters on the road though.

Fantastic burden on the poor in a state where vehicles are absolutely necessary.

[Spracne]

A mileage tax that replaced the gas tax would be something like $0.015 per mile for a typical 4 door sedan, fwiw.

They don’t actually verify your mileage though

It'd be easy to verify in Texas because you have to get your car inspected every year and the mileage is recorded at that time.

Damn, what a pain in the ass.  No freedoms in tx

It is a giant pain in the ass. Limits the number of beaters on the road though.

Fantastic burden on the poor in a state where vehicles are absolutely necessary.

I also suspect it's a way to weed out undocumented immigrants, but please point me to the state where vehicles are not necessary?