How good is Will Howard???

[Stupid Fitz]

TBH the staff should always have a package ready to go for Avery and use him for a drive or two every first half. Especially if Will continues to toss picks at the rate he has been.

I'm sure they do but I'm guessing for the Oklahoma game that Avery package looked a whole lot like what they did with Will when we got down and they started running him with success. Frankly, I rather Will stay in a game like that than Avery coming in and taking unnecessary hits, especially when will is running the ball well.

when we are down 3 scores, yeah don't play Avery. That's why I was saying he should play every first half!

Agree with Rusty here. He needs to come in for a few series regardless of how Will is doing. Also agree with MIR. That's why I put some of this on Klein. There was room to run most of the night and the called QB runs were pretty successful for the most part. Just keep running and get the win. Snyder basically tried to kill Klein by running him so much, so unless he is so traumatized by it and forgot, it didn't make much sense on saturday.

[KSNimrod]

When exactly do you think we were supposed to pull Howard? He is still the guy that led us to a Big 12 title and scores of 40+ points in 3/4 games leading up to OSU.

He’s also the guy who broke a 70 yard run in like the second or third drive of the game.

I'm not sure I'd advocate for yanking him out of the game for the duration.  I just wonder what the issue would be with bringing in Avery for a series just to get a reset or settle Will down.  (By that I mean taking Will OUT of the game too... not split out wide - effectively removing a real target for Avery to throw to and telling the defense we are just going to run the QB out of backfield.)  But again, nobody is paying me jack to coach and I pretty much suck at Madden too.  So there's that.

[michigancat]

Will is he who is and isn't changing at this point.  He's good for a long run or two a game, and an occasional good throw, along with a ton of overthrows and shitty interceptions.

he literally did not throw a ton of shitty interceptions last season.

[OK_Cat]

Will is he who is and isn't changing at this point.  He's good for a long run or two a game, and an occasional good throw, along with a ton of overthrows and shitty interceptions.

he literally did not throw a ton of shitty interceptions last season.

As literally everyone has pointed out, kRUSTY, last season was the outlier for known dingus Will Howard. 

[michigancat]

Will is he who is and isn't changing at this point.  He's good for a long run or two a game, and an occasional good throw, along with a ton of overthrows and shitty interceptions.

he literally did not throw a ton of shitty interceptions last season.

As literally everyone has pointed out, kRUSTY, last season was the outlier for known dingus Will Howard. 

one entire season is not really an outlier! It's as much of who he is as this season.

[OK_Cat]

          CMP   ATT   CMP%   YDS          AVG   TD   INT   LNG   RTG
2023    106   173   61.3           1,224   7.1   9   7   44   129.8
2022    119   199   59.8           1,633   8.2   15   4   80   149.6
2021    30             55   54.5            332            6.0   1   1   68   107.6
2020    90            168   53.6           1,178   7.0   8   10   70   116.3


I mean....it's like in 2022 someone wore a Will Howard suit.

[wetwillie]

He only started 5 games last year, but damn they were a glorious 5 games.

[michigancat]

          CMP   ATT   CMP%   YDS          AVG   TD   INT   LNG   RTG
2023    106   173   61.3           1,224   7.1   9   7   44   129.8
2022    119   199   59.8           1,633   8.2   15   4   80   149.6
2021    30             55   54.5            332            6.0   1   1   68   107.6
2020    90            168   53.6           1,178   7.0   8   10   70   116.3


I mean....it's like in 2022 someone wore a Will Howard suit.

over 21 and 22 he had 254 attempts and 5 interceptions...7 interceptions in 173 this season is more of an outlier!

[OK_Cat]

          CMP   ATT   CMP%   YDS          AVG   TD   INT   LNG   RTG
2023    106   173   61.3           1,224   7.1   9   7   44   129.8
2022    119   199   59.8           1,633   8.2   15   4   80   149.6
2021    30             55   54.5            332            6.0   1   1   68   107.6
2020    90            168   53.6           1,178   7.0   8   10   70   116.3


I mean....it's like in 2022 someone wore a Will Howard suit.

over 21 and 22 he had 254 attempts and 5 interceptions...7 interceptions in 173 this season is more of an outlier!

This season and his first season are very similar statistically, which I would think is a problem.   

If you're all aboard the Will train, that's fine.

[Cire]

OK St. had him totally confused in the passing game which resulted in the awful 2, early int's and 11 yards in the first half.

He didn't trust what he was seeing pre snap so he was locking into his primary guy all night.

I assume the same was true for the oline.

They threw everything they had at us in the first half on offense and when they were out of those plays the defense played pretty well other than not being able to turn them over.

And our special teams absolutely blow.

[catastrophe]

When exactly do you think we were supposed to pull Howard? He is still the guy that led us to a Big 12 title and scores of 40+ points in 3/4 games leading up to OSU.

He’s also the guy who broke a 70 yard run in like the second or third drive of the game.

I don't know if you're asking me but I was not calling for Howard to be pulled, just for Avery to get a drive or two in the first half of every game.

I see. Although I really have to wonder if taking Will in and out would mess up his rhythm even more when he is in.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

[wetwillie]

Prince gave freemaw the nod in game 4, situations obviously a bit different but when you have a talent like Avery just sitting there it's hard to keep it on the shelf.

[michigancat]

When exactly do you think we were supposed to pull Howard? He is still the guy that led us to a Big 12 title and scores of 40+ points in 3/4 games leading up to OSU.

He’s also the guy who broke a 70 yard run in like the second or third drive of the game.

I don't know if you're asking me but I was not calling for Howard to be pulled, just for Avery to get a drive or two in the first half of every game.

I see. Although I really have to wonder if taking Will in and out would mess up his rhythm even more when he is in.

I think the pros of Avery's upside, development, impact on recruiting, and the fact that Howard has just been turning the ball over at a higher rate than he has the last two seasons outweighs potential rhythm disruption.

I definitely wouldn't hand the keys over to Avery yet, and probably wouldn't this season barring injury.

[stunted]

i recall howard could have easily had 5+ more interceptions last season. but then again, d-backs drop ints all the time.

[MakeItRain]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

[DQ12]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

Avery isn't as reliant on WRs to be good, imo. 

[PurpleOil]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

Nick Saban literally benched a record breaking starter and ultimate Heisman trophy runner up for a true freshman in the championship game who had only previously seen mop up duty playing time.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

Then play Rubley, but Will has to get his INTs figured out.

[Spracne]

Have we ruled out the possibility that Howard is gambling against his own team?

[MakeItRain]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

Avery isn't as reliant on WRs to be good, imo.

Will averaged 10 yards a rush on Friday and is at 6 ypc on the year.

[MakeItRain]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

Nick Saban literally benched a record breaking starter and ultimate Heisman trophy runner up for a true freshman in the championship game who had only previously seen mop up duty playing time.

Touche. Should be pointed out that Hurts was a true sophomore when he got pulled. Tua played in 7 games before the championship game, and Hurts was 3-8 and I think Alabama was down three scores when Tua went in.

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

Then play Rubley, but Will has to get his INTs figured out.

That scenario wasn't about Avery but more about Will and how you prepare QBs. You're correct, Will has to get the INTs figured out, before the OSU game he had 4 first quarter picks then was fine after, in each game. He's not going to get it figured out from the bench and I think it's malpractice for the coaches to quickly pull the ripcord on benching him. If he continues to struggle against Tech. I do think the coaches should start Avery against TCU.

[OB_Won]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

Avery isn't as reliant on WRs to be good, imo.

Will averaged 10 yards a rush on Friday and is at 6 ypc on the year.

The fact we didn't run more in that game was odd. It seemed to me like the weirdest coached Kstate game since Prince. Will wasn't the only one who had a terrible game, imo.

[WillieWatanabe]

i recall howard could have easily had 5+ more interceptions last season. but then again, d-backs drop ints all the time.

It seemed like he had several balls that went into tight windows for TDs last year. Them the breaks I guess.

[SkinnyBenny]

If Will has an early INT this Saturday, I'd bench him.

What are you going to do if Avery comes in and looks like crap partially because he's had limited first team snaps in practice. He's been preparing like a backup then you're going to have him come in and clean someone else's mess.

If Will is going to be benched for Avery it needs to be because Will got hurt or the decision was made during the week so Avery and the entire offense can properly prepare, this isn't PlayStation. I keep hearing from people, who I'll take at their work that they know what they're talking about, that the receivers have not been good, that's gonna change with a quarterback who hasn't been prepared to run the offense?

I mean, we’d put Will back in. I don’t think it’s as complex as the scenario you’ve concocted in your head is making it out to be. If we put in Avery and he’s worse than Will, then we put Will back in. Simple. Might that mess up his rhythm? Maybe, but the fact that we’re even having this conversation in the first place means his rhythm hasn’t been that good. We’ve lost two games we absolutely should’ve won. Is that all on Will? Of course not. But frankly we’re better than our 3-2 record.