How good is Will Howard???

[PurpleOil]

Well done cowboys.

Lots of sunshine pumping on FB about Will Howard. I really want to believe, but I just can't. Not until he actually shows us an ability to lead and not buckle under pressure.

My position has not changed. In fact, I've now gotten more down on Howard.

[MakeItRain]

Who in God's name was sunshine pumping Will Howard?

[yoga-like_abana]

Who in God's name was sunshine pumping Will Howard?

+1


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[bucket]

Who in God's name was sunshine pumping Will Howard?

Manbeck

[PurpleOil]

You guys really never saw it? I can't remember which groups, specifically it was going on in, but there were several, including the unfiltered one, where people were still "give him a chance" "stand behind your team" "you're not a true fan if" "Kleiman says he's great" etc etc etc

[Fedor]

You guys really never saw it? I can't remember which groups, specifically it was going on in, but there were several, including the unfiltered one, where people were still "give him a chance" "stand behind your team" "you're not a true fan if" "Kleiman says he's great" etc etc etc

Those quotes are hardly sunshine pumping.  They are more of the enthusiastic resignation variety.

[muqluk]

I’m not happy with overall Qb development either but why is nobody talking about WR development?

They have been bad for nearly the entire decade - with a few notable exceptions.

Hell, they can’t catch a cold in a plague ward

[wetwillie]

I’m not happy with overall Qb development either but why is nobody talking about WR development?

They have been bad for nearly the entire decade - with a few notable exceptions.

Hell, they can’t catch a cold in a plague ward

They wanted to fire the WR coach but got told no due to covid budget stuff, so he got turned into the TE coach.

[Pete]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

[wiley]

I’m not happy with overall Qb development either but why is nobody talking about WR development?

They have been bad for nearly the entire decade - with a few notable exceptions.

Hell, they can’t catch a cold in a plague ward

They wanted to fire the WR coach but got told no due to covid budget stuff, so he got turned into the TE coach.

Did that really happen, or just implied because they moved him (not questioning just interested)?

[ben ji]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

[wetwillie]

I’m not happy with overall Qb development either but why is nobody talking about WR development?

They have been bad for nearly the entire decade - with a few notable exceptions.

Hell, they can’t catch a cold in a plague ward

They wanted to fire the WR coach but got told no due to covid budget stuff, so he got turned into the TE coach.

Did that really happen, or just implied because they moved him (not questioning just interested)?

If he’s a coach here in 2022 you will have your answer

[wiley]

I’m not happy with overall Qb development either but why is nobody talking about WR development?

They have been bad for nearly the entire decade - with a few notable exceptions.

Hell, they can’t catch a cold in a plague ward

They wanted to fire the WR coach but got told no due to covid budget stuff, so he got turned into the TE coach.

Did that really happen, or just implied because they moved him (not questioning just interested)?

If he’s a coach here in 2022 you will have your answer

But i wanna know now! ~ Veruca Salt

[cfbandyman]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

[michigancat]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

[nicname]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

[muqluk]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

Both looked just ‘ok’ but neither particularly better than the other.

Also, neither got any help from receivers dropping passes ‘in their hands’ - they can’t catch the balls that are in their hands at least at a 75% or better, what the hell good are they.

[nicname]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

Both looked just ‘ok’ but neither particularly better than the other.

Also, neither got any help from receivers dropping passes ‘in their hands’ - they can’t catch the balls that are in their hands at least at a 75% or better, what the hell good are they.

Howard looked much better imo.

[muqluk]

I’ll concede as that’s not really what I feel is our bigger problem.

Any of these 3 with Tyler Lockett would look ‘very’ good - or at the least wouldn’t be bad enough for any of us to call for their backup to take over.

[MakeItRain]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

What? Hell naw. He was 4-12 for 50 yards.

[nicname]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

What? Hell naw. He was 4-12 for 50 yards.

The passing numbers look bad, but there were at least 4 legitimate drops in there as well. I will go back and watch the replay and eat crow if I'm proven wrong. The offense looked pretty decent against a pretty good defense when he was in. The turnovers, especially the fumbles, are inexcusable tho.

[MakeItRain]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

What? Hell naw. He was 4-12 for 50 yards.

The passing numbers look bad, but there were at least 4 legitimate drops in there as well. I will go back and watch the replay and eat crow if I'm proven wrong. The offense looked pretty decent against a pretty good defense when he was in. The turnovers, especially the fumbles, are inexcusable tho.

Do it, you'll definitely eat crow. There may have been 1 drop and that was the pass in the end zone to Malik that may have been lost in the sun, I think it was defended. There were two more that we're absolutely defended because they were seam routes underthrown, people on twitter were calling them drops because they are dumdums. If a receiver is running anything down field; seam routes, post routes, go routes, or flag posts, and they have to either stop or come back to the ball, they are underthrown.

Check the tape, it won't take long, he only threw 12 passes and 4 of them were on the first drive. You'll see these three passes I'm talking about and the rest were just good ol incomplete passes.

[muqluk]

I see a lot of stone hands drops.

Been seeing them for years - partly why I’m not so down on the QB play as others. I do feel there’s serious room for improvement at the QB position also, but when passes are on target, even with no coverage, there’s a maddening amount of drops and this predates Kleiman and crew by at least 5 years.

[wetwillie]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

What? Hell naw. He was 4-12 for 50 yards.

The passing numbers look bad, but there were at least 4 legitimate drops in there as well. I will go back and watch the replay and eat crow if I'm proven wrong. The offense looked pretty decent against a pretty good defense when he was in. The turnovers, especially the fumbles, are inexcusable tho.

Do it, you'll definitely eat crow. There may have been 1 drop and that was the pass in the end zone to Malik that may have been lost in the sun, I think it was defended. There were two more that we're absolutely defended because they were seam routes underthrown, people on twitter were calling them drops because they are dumdums. If a receiver is running anything down field; seam routes, post routes, go routes, or flag posts, and they have to either stop or come back to the ball, they are underthrown.

Check the tape, it won't take long, he only threw 12 passes and 4 of them were on the first drive. You'll see these three passes I'm talking about and the rest were just good ol incomplete passes.

The first “drop” by Malik in the 1st quarter was a beautiful play until Jax Dineen whiffed on his block and Will had to throw it a half second early.  If he gets to step into that fully he throws Malik open for a score.  If he wasn’t a fumble machine I would be more optimistic about him being a serviceable QB since he is big and has decent speed and agility.

[DQ12]

If they ran him 20+ times and didn't let him throw anything except 50 yard bombs to push the safeties back, it might be OK

So the Bazooka Joe offense? I'd rather have a Kody Cook back there who can make the 5-15 yard pass and still run

The word. Honestly the first drive of the game (besides some vertical routes they just need to not do) was actually a well called drive IMO. It was only a FG but some short passes, offset with proper running plays both inside and out. They just then decided to not do that anymore

I mean they really only had one more drive with Howard, and it wasn't great but it wasn't abysmal.

I think the consensus among non-pudding brains is that -- aside from that abysmal fumble that OSU recovered for a TD -- Will Howard looked pretty good serviceable before he left the game injured.

“Aside from” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

If youre going to be a “serviceable” quarterback you can’t have totally WTF turnovers fairly regularly.  I could tolerate stuff like that from young Ell or young Freeman because they were dynamic enough to be “worth it” - you’d sigh and say “eh take the good with the bad I guess,” but right now Howard isn’t doing anything to offset that stuff in my mind’s eye.

The fumble on Saturday wasn’t really all that surprising.  Stuff like that has come to be expected.