Author Topic: How good is Will Howard???  (Read 110860 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #450 on: November 09, 2020, 09:25:40 PM »
Who compared sky and freemaw?

I actually misread your post. I do think young Sky is better than freshman Howard, I think Sky is better in every way. Young sky was annoying because he held on to the ball way too long, but that was clearly a function of coaching because my guy Sisco had the same problem. If I thought that Howard could throw the ball, I'd be more confident with his development than Skylar's, but I don't think he can, and coaching isn't going to close that gap.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #451 on: November 09, 2020, 09:33:37 PM »
100% agree with everything you just said there.  :thumbs:

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #452 on: November 09, 2020, 09:43:27 PM »
Goodman what a beautiful post.
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Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #453 on: November 09, 2020, 10:20:19 PM »
Freeman's freshman year had the worst supporting cast and coaches of any other Kansas State quarterback since 1988.
Lol what

There aren’t that many years where K-State has been more loaded at the skill positions than Freeman’s freshman year. 

His OC/QB coach was James Franklin.

If the 2020 team had Jermaine Moreira, I think we’d be considerably better, let alone Yamon or Jordy.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 10:30:16 PM by DQ12 »


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Offline michigancat

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #454 on: November 09, 2020, 10:34:48 PM »
Mastrud also played in the league (don't think he played much in 2006 though)

Offline tdaver

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #455 on: November 09, 2020, 10:46:20 PM »
and James Johnson (also spent a little time on an NFL roster) in the backfield

Offline nicname

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #456 on: November 09, 2020, 10:53:21 PM »
The 2006 staff was pretty badass too.

James Franklin
Ricky Rahne
Scott Frost
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #457 on: November 09, 2020, 11:10:43 PM »
Freeman's freshman year had the worst supporting cast and coaches of any other Kansas State quarterback since 1988.
Lol what

There aren’t that many years where K-State has been more loaded at the skill positions than Freeman’s freshman year. 

His OC/QB coach was James Franklin.

If the 2020 team had Jermaine Moreira, I think we’d be considerably better, let alone Yamon or Jordy.

The offense that year was a goddamned disaster, unquestionably the worst in since Snyder arrived. Having a bunch of first year, non contributing talent, and some coaches who have had some varying degrees of offensive success doesn't change that. I've said this before, but the offense Freeman's year was crap because they weren't running an offense for him. He and the offense were better in '07 & '08 because the players were better and the coaches figured out that throwing the ball a ton with a guy who was good at throwing the ball, was the way to go.

List all your dumb names, that 2006 offense was a horror show and I don't know how you could lay that at the feet of the best player on the team.

https://twitter.com/ksu_FAN/status/1325470476081242112

Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #458 on: November 10, 2020, 09:01:53 AM »
Man, Josh Freeman was the weak link on the 2006 offense (as far as skill position players go...honestly don't remember the state of the OL).  He threw plenty.  The offense wasn't great because Dylan was no good and neither was freshman Freeman. 

I will list out "all the dumb names" that you call "the worst supporting cast since 1988": Jordy (NFL); Figurs (NFL); James Johnson (NFL); Thomas Clayton (NFL); Jeron Mastrud (NFL); Jermaine Moreira; Rashaad Norwood.  The only "first year" guy there was Johnson, who was a juco transfer and legit very good in 2006. His quarterbacks coach was James Franklin and his offensive coordinator was also James Franklin.  Prince was a monster, obviously, but otherwise, that's a pretty ideal scenario (especially personnel wise) if you're going to turn things over to a true freshman QB.
 
Let's look at his splits:

Baylor [the game when Freeman took over for good] - L 17-3: 11-33 for 196 yards and 3 INTs.  He only played in the second half.

OSU [first start] - W 31-27: 10-15 for 177 yards.

Nebraska - L 21-3: 23-47 for 272 yards and 2 INTs.

Missouri - L 21-41: 5-19 for 63 yards and 2 INTs.

Iowa State - W 31-10: 14-20 for 161 yards, 1 TD (his first passing TD) and 1 INT. 

Colorado - W 34-21: 22-26 for 251 yards, 2 TD. 

Texas - W 45-42: 19-31 for 269 yards, 3 TD 1 INT. 

KU - L 39-20: 23-44 for 244 yards, 3 INTs.

Rutgers - L 37-10: 10-21, 2 INTs.

On the season, 140-270 for 1780 yards, 6 TDs, 15 INTs.  Unless we're grading him on the "well he was a freshman" curve, Freeman was not good in 2006. 

The 2006 offense was OK -- not great not horrible. 


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Offline meow meow

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #459 on: November 10, 2020, 09:07:58 AM »
wait, do we think will has taken up smoking cigs?

Offline ben ji

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #460 on: November 10, 2020, 09:12:54 AM »
wait, do we think will has taken up smoking cigs?

My cousin's roomates BF said they saw Will sleeping on a pool table in the middle of the party the friday before the OSU game after OD'n on cigs.

Offline Trim

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #461 on: November 10, 2020, 09:23:35 AM »
DJDT has really spurred a lot of football discussion!

Offline meow meow

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #462 on: November 10, 2020, 09:25:14 AM »
wait, do we think will has taken up smoking cigs?

My cousin's roomates BF said they saw Will sleeping on a pool table in the middle of the party the friday before the OSU game after OD'n on cigs.

F&%$!!!

Online wetwillie

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #463 on: November 10, 2020, 09:47:37 AM »
It’s revisionist history to say he was playing with NFL guys as if they don’t improve over time.  I mean he got drafted higher than anyone listed.  Also basically having no chemistry with the surrounding cast plays a big part in how a QB will perform. 
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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #464 on: November 10, 2020, 10:13:51 AM »
Lack of work ethic, FP, etc. :shakesfist:

Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #465 on: November 10, 2020, 11:08:34 AM »
It’s revisionist history to say he was playing with NFL guys as if they don’t improve over time.  I mean he got drafted higher than anyone listed.  Also basically having no chemistry with the surrounding cast plays a big part in how a QB will perform.
Jordy was a junior and Figurs was a senior.  Am I saying that the surrounding cast was the best K-State's ever had?  No.  I'm saying that calling it the worst since 1988 is hilarious.  It's lightyears better than the non-QB offense we're currently trotting (heh) out there.

FWIW, I really like Freeman and acknowledge that he was a great college QB for K-State.  But come on - he stank his true Freshman year, as almost every college QB would.  And he didn't stink because the rest of the offense was devoid of talent. 

Obviously we're putting the cart way before the horse if we're comparing Howard to one of the best QBs K-State's ever had, but I think Howard would probably look better than he does if he had Jordy/Yamon/Moreira lined up at WR instead of Knowles/Brooks/Render.  Jordy/Yamon/Moreira is damn near the best WR group K-State's ever had.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 11:15:34 AM by DQ12 »


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Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #466 on: November 10, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »
Harper/TLBL/TT i could put above that trio but i might just be saying that because 2012 was so much more successful of a year than Jordy/Yamon/Moreira ever had. Aaron Lockett/Quincy Morgan were always nails but 3rd best receiver seemed like was always a distant 3rd.

Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #467 on: November 10, 2020, 11:48:13 AM »
Harper/TLBL/TT i could put above that trio but i might just be saying that because 2012 was so much more successful of a year than Jordy/Yamon/Moreira ever had. Aaron Lockett/Quincy Morgan were always nails but 3rd best receiver seemed like was always a distant 3rd.
Yeah I don't necessarily think Jordy/Yamon/Mo was the best, but it's in the conversation.


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Online wetwillie

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #468 on: November 10, 2020, 12:02:11 PM »
Freeman was also playing behind 265 pound OT’s
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Offline cfbandyman

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #469 on: November 10, 2020, 12:03:21 PM »
Harper/TLBL/TT i could put above that trio but i might just be saying that because 2012 was so much more successful of a year than Jordy/Yamon/Moreira ever had. Aaron Lockett/Quincy Morgan were always nails but 3rd best receiver seemed like was always a distant 3rd.

IDK if Harper/TLBL/TT were necessarily the best, but they were the perfect trio in terms of what all 3 brought to the table IMO. I pretty much look for who fills those 3 roles in our WRs since then.

Harper was the perfect box out, create space, hard to tackle guy who you could count on to get that 8/9 yards (w/e) to get that first down. TLBL wreaked havoc all over the field and could spread the defense out and be that big play guy. TT was slightly overlooked but probably the most sure handed and you knew could come up with that big catch and get himself open in critical situations (@ OU in 2012 is a great example of this). I loved all 3 of them and want us to have 3 guys who can do that.

Honestly with this team you kinda have the box out guy in Moore, but you don't really have the deep threat and sure handedness one.
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Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #470 on: November 10, 2020, 12:14:02 PM »
Freeman was also playing behind 265 pound OT’s
OL returned 4 starters!


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Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #471 on: November 10, 2020, 12:21:24 PM »
Harper/TLBL/TT i could put above that trio but i might just be saying that because 2012 was so much more successful of a year than Jordy/Yamon/Moreira ever had. Aaron Lockett/Quincy Morgan were always nails but 3rd best receiver seemed like was always a distant 3rd.

IDK if Harper/TLBL/TT were necessarily the best, but they were the perfect trio in terms of what all 3 brought to the table IMO. I pretty much look for who fills those 3 roles in our WRs since then.

Harper was the perfect box out, create space, hard to tackle guy who you could count on to get that 8/9 yards (w/e) to get that first down. TLBL wreaked havoc all over the field and could spread the defense out and be that big play guy. TT was slightly overlooked but probably the most sure handed and you knew could come up with that big catch and get himself open in critical situations (@ OU in 2012 is a great example of this). I loved all 3 of them and want us to have 3 guys who can do that.

Honestly with this team you kinda have the box out guy in Moore, but you don't really have the deep threat and sure handedness one.

agreed they were the equivalent of a golf scramble where you got someone who can hit the long drive, someone good with the irons, and someone who can chip/putt.

Offline stunted

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #472 on: November 10, 2020, 12:34:38 PM »
Saw a comment that Rubley been hating on Howard on Twitter  :Wha:

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #473 on: November 10, 2020, 01:04:39 PM »
Freeman was also playing behind 265 pound OT’s
OL returned 4 starters!

Probably NFL guys
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline DQ12

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Re: How good is Will Howard???
« Reply #474 on: November 10, 2020, 01:18:20 PM »
Freeman was also playing behind 265 pound OT’s
OL returned 4 starters!

Probably NFL guys
Probably better than the year before


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