Author Topic: competitive little kid sports  (Read 36923 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #925 on: March 13, 2024, 08:31:56 AM »


In general I think travel coaches and training centers scare parents into the idea that early specialization is necessary to keep them from being "left behind" when in fact it is probably actually detrimental to most kids if you care about things like burnout and injury

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658407/#:~:text=Results%3A,sports%20at%20a%20young%20age.

This is all true, but the problem is that baseball has evolved to play on these competitive teams or don't play baseball. My kid whipped ass in summer and fall rec leagues with his pals. As they got a bit older, those teams dissolve and fewer of his pals played baseball anymore. He was good enough to make a "competitive" team so he's still playing, but I know he'd rather be just playing league or whatever with a bunch of his buddies. Thankfully our coach is the best and doesn't go full on and encourages everyone to play other sports, but I know Lil SF doesn't like it as much as he did in the past. I was talking to a dad a year or so ago and he said his kid was on a team that does tryouts and cuts every year. Its a constant shuffle. I asked him if that was any fun at all and he basically said both he and his kid hate it, but he knows the kids and doesn't want to go to a random team so its that or don't play baseball anymore and he likes playing baseball.

Seems like a pretty good argument for not playing baseball

Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #926 on: March 13, 2024, 08:57:24 AM »
We are a tryout/cuts competitive team and none of lil sd’s friends are on it. But he’s become friends with most of his teammates. He loves it. His order of sports are baseball, football, basketball.

He plays basketball because it’s the winter sport and he likes it fine. We just had tryouts and he was lucky enough to make the same team we played with last season but he’s on the lower end of the team. I’d prefer it if he played down a level and was a larger co tribute but he likes playing on the highest level team he can make.

Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.


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Offline SleepFighter

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #927 on: March 13, 2024, 09:25:41 AM »


In general I think travel coaches and training centers scare parents into the idea that early specialization is necessary to keep them from being "left behind" when in fact it is probably actually detrimental to most kids if you care about things like burnout and injury

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658407/#:~:text=Results%3A,sports%20at%20a%20young%20age.

This is all true, but the problem is that baseball has evolved to play on these competitive teams or don't play baseball. My kid whipped ass in summer and fall rec leagues with his pals. As they got a bit older, those teams dissolve and fewer of his pals played baseball anymore. He was good enough to make a "competitive" team so he's still playing, but I know he'd rather be just playing league or whatever with a bunch of his buddies. Thankfully our coach is the best and doesn't go full on and encourages everyone to play other sports, but I know Lil SF doesn't like it as much as he did in the past. I was talking to a dad a year or so ago and he said his kid was on a team that does tryouts and cuts every year. Its a constant shuffle. I asked him if that was any fun at all and he basically said both he and his kid hate it, but he knows the kids and doesn't want to go to a random team so its that or don't play baseball anymore and he likes playing baseball.

Seems like a pretty good argument for not playing baseball

The problem is that this isn't just true of baseball.

Rec soccer barely exists above u8 or u9 around here, because so many players join various "Jr. Academies". After the Jr. Academies age out after U10, the rec teams have all been hollowed out. There has been a shift to younger Jr. Academy leagues around here since my oldest (17) started playing.

When my oldest was littler there were several u9 rec teams that had the players and coaches to create an environment that was fun, but at the same time at a high enough level for kids to be able to improve while playing in those games.

That just didn't exist by the time that my youngest came around. After like u5 or u6, there were fewer teams, and the teams that did exist were less organized and they were less likely to have the one or two "good" (by that I pretty much mean kids that really wanted to play) players that a team needed to make games not be ridiculously lop-sided. It's no fun for anyone when you as a coach are trying to come up with ways for your five year old kids to not score goals, but that's what was happening.

The only solution is for a bunch of parents to decide at the same time to keep their kids in rec longer. But that also requires that more parents sign up to coach. Which is a whole other problem.

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #928 on: March 13, 2024, 09:41:47 AM »
We are a tryout/cuts competitive team and none of lil sd’s friends are on it. But he’s become friends with most of his teammates. He loves it. His order of sports are baseball, football, basketball.

He plays basketball because it’s the winter sport and he likes it fine. We just had tryouts and he was lucky enough to make the same team we played with last season but he’s on the lower end of the team. I’d prefer it if he played down a level and was a larger co tribute but he likes playing on the highest level team he can make.

Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.


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Same baseball situation for my kid. He's def made friends on the new team, but quite a few of them go to a different school together so they are all pals. He's pretty chill and quiet so he sometimes gets drowned out. He def liked making the competitive team at first, but turns out it was more fun batting 1st or 2nd and playing infield in rec Vs batting towards the bottom and playing outfield in competitive.

Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #929 on: March 13, 2024, 10:49:57 AM »
OUTFIELD IS IMPORTANT!


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Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #930 on: March 13, 2024, 10:51:58 AM »
OUTFIELD IS IMPORTANT!


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3 diving catches last year!!!  :gocho:

Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #931 on: March 13, 2024, 10:59:19 AM »
Our CF made a diving one to close out a tourney win last season at from that point on he has only wanted to play CF. Which rules because he’s a fast kid who can track a ball.


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Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #932 on: March 13, 2024, 11:00:35 AM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #933 on: March 13, 2024, 02:58:36 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

This is something that is 100% true.

It's also true that for a lot of kids that high school competition can be a lot more fun, and is much more visible to their peers.

My oldest kid just committed to play D2 soccer. Every single kid on the that roster either played in the MLSNext, ECNL (the two best national youth club soccer leagues in the country), or they're an international student.

Those high level club teams are put together from relatively large geographical areas, meaning that the players are likely not hanging out with each other outside of practice/games.

The opposite is true in high school. It makes those club teams feel like groups of mercenaries, while high school teams feel a lot more tightly knit.

Added to that, more or less no one that isn't directly related to the players goes to or cares about those club games. However, while it doesn't have anywhere close to the same interest as football, or even high school basketball, you will see classmates show up to cheer on the team in high school.

It stinks that there isn't more correlation between what feels the most rewarding and what you need to do if you want to keep playing after high school.

Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #934 on: March 13, 2024, 03:01:46 PM »



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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #935 on: March 13, 2024, 03:43:31 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #936 on: March 13, 2024, 03:52:30 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

There's actually quite a bit of hockey in Texas, but none of it is played in high schools.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #937 on: March 13, 2024, 03:54:36 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

There's actually quite a bit of hockey in Texas, but none of it is played in high schools.

How many texas hockey players play at the next level?

Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #938 on: March 13, 2024, 03:55:03 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

really? I think of that as super club-heavy. but also I knew some hockey parents in California where HS hockey is pretty much non existent - sure it's different in like New England.

Interestingly on the other end of the spectrum high end HS water polo in California is arguably a bigger deal for the next level. Outside of CA the competition is a joke and you need a club and it probably needs to be a mercenary-type club or you join one in california. (my daughter became a water polo club mercenary when we moved to NYC and had an amazing time)

Offline SleepFighter

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #939 on: March 13, 2024, 04:01:47 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

There's actually quite a bit of hockey in Texas, but none of it is played in high schools.

How many texas hockey players play at the next level?

I honestly don't know, but I'm guessing more than you would think.

Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #940 on: March 13, 2024, 04:02:22 PM »
The only thing I know about water polo is vaguely remembering seeing it in the Olympics as a kid and rusty in this thread. So yeah, that seems to track.


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Offline steve dave

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #941 on: March 13, 2024, 04:07:36 PM »
You can do no hockey until like 6th grade but if you’re big and fire empty beer cans into buckets and crap in a back alley for practice you can still make the team that surprisingly turns out to be the best in the league in a major hockey town like Minneapolis. So I don’t think clubs are neccessary.


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Offline SleepFighter

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #942 on: March 13, 2024, 04:08:58 PM »
There's a water polo team at my kids' high school, and one of my kids went to some practices. But yeah, apparently there's like one or two good players on it, and everyone else is terrible.

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #943 on: March 13, 2024, 04:11:48 PM »
Football he loves because it’s most of his school friends. We put together a feeder tackle football team for our HS. I coach it with some other guys and it’s fun as hell.

one interesting thing about this discussion I hadn't thought about is how football is one of the last remaining sports that still feels driven at the community level because clubs/private coaches haven't been able to completely take over the high level competition. It might be the last sport in the US where high school competition really means anything when it comes to playing at the next level.

hockey

There's actually quite a bit of hockey in Texas, but none of it is played in high schools.

How many texas hockey players play at the next level?

I honestly don't know, but I'm guessing more than you would think.
I'd bet way less because they are all busy playing real sports

Offline nicname

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #944 on: March 13, 2024, 06:01:37 PM »
Glad to see you guys are frustrated by some of the same things I see. One thing I’ve noticed is that at least in our town, which is relatively crappy in sports, the ones that are traditionally successful have a local centric club that’s basically taken over or is a feeder system to the high school. So they get really good coaching and practice, but form that unitive bond that’s needed for team success. Boys soccer and wrestling are the two big examples, as well as softball here locally.

The goal for most kids shouldn’t really be to get a scholarship anyway. Not that kids and parents shouldn’t dream, but when that becomes the goal, this significantly impacting the organizational structure of participation so significantly, it ends up bad for most everyone. Less kids plays sports in general and for as long, and less kids play multiple sports for as long, while specialization increases.

Of course, money and the youth sports industrial complex is at the heart of it.



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Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #945 on: March 13, 2024, 07:09:06 PM »
The only thing I know about water polo is vaguely remembering seeing it in the Olympics as a kid and rusty in this thread. So yeah, that seems to track.


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I thought about starting a women's college water polo thread for MakeItRain and I to discuss it because I'm pretty sure he would know more about it than me even though I watch it almost every weekend. It's a great sport! Even if it's kind of a mess with constant rule changes and terrible officiating which is hard to follow because so much happens underwater. Going to at least three sessions at the Olympics and I can't wait.

Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #946 on: March 13, 2024, 07:15:44 PM »
Also, water polo is going like crazy in Texas since it became an official high school sport a couple years ago and they put so much money into athletics facilities there. You see a few Texas kids at the next level already even if they don't play with California clubs. It's really insane how California centric water polo is but it is shifting


Offline Spracne

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #947 on: March 13, 2024, 08:19:25 PM »
I hear it's really big at SMU.

Offline pissclams

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #948 on: March 13, 2024, 08:21:55 PM »
ksu intramural waterpolo competitor here, AMA


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Offline michigancat

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Re: competitive little kid sports
« Reply #949 on: March 13, 2024, 08:51:20 PM »


I hear it's really big at SMU.

I was shocked to recently learn that have 50m indoor AND outdoor pools! (No varsity polo though)