Author Topic: The riot to reform police thread  (Read 105437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline treysolid

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3483
  • complacent and self-involved
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #600 on: June 02, 2020, 10:49:41 AM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

I think you should be able to say that about the reverse here too correct?  There are good cops right?.  I'm curious what % of bad cops you think there are?

If you consider the 3 cops who just stood around and let the other cop choke the guy out to be bad cops, then I'd say the % of good cops is pretty low.

psst...purplewood...it's not about individual cops. it's the system. the whole system is bad. it's how cops are trained, it's how cops are incentivized, it's how they are paid, it's how they are taught to view themselves and their role in the communities they "serve", it's the laws they enforce, it's the toxic relationship between police and the judiciary, it's the predatory bail and bond system, it's the complete gutting of resources for public attorneys, it's the ENTIRE prison system, it's the parole system. It's literally everything. Every inch of it needs to be reformed.

Online michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53677
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #601 on: June 02, 2020, 10:55:29 AM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

I think you should be able to say that about the reverse here too correct?  There are good cops right?.  I'm curious what % of bad cops you think there are?

No, they are two different things. The current police system is "bad" and needs to change, regardless of what percentage of individual cops are "good". The presence of "good cops" does not mean the system of policing is good. I'd also argue that the only true "good cops" are ones that completely want to change the system, which I would guess is a pretty low percentage.

On the flip side, someone setting a van on fire does not mean people protesting the current law enforcement system are wrong.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #602 on: June 02, 2020, 11:02:41 AM »
I think the violent rioting does a lot to reduce overall support for change from the general population. It probably does help leverage support from the population that actually owns things like malls, Targets, and other chain stores, though.

Offline DQ12

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 22226
  • #TeamChestHair
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #603 on: June 02, 2020, 11:08:26 AM »
I think the violent rioting does a lot to reduce overall support for change from the general population.
Then I don't think the people you're referencing are acting logically.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline DaBigTrain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11638
  • stuxnet, meltdown, spectre, Bitcoin, ffChamp
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #604 on: June 02, 2020, 11:10:15 AM »
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

https://blockstream.info/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2740
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #605 on: June 02, 2020, 11:10:52 AM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

I think you should be able to say that about the reverse here too correct?  There are good cops right?.  I'm curious what % of bad cops you think there are?

No, they are two different things. The current police system is "bad" and needs to change, regardless of what percentage of individual cops are "good". The presence of "good cops" does not mean the system of policing is good. I'd also argue that the only true "good cops" are ones that completely want to change the system, which I would guess is a pretty low percentage.

On the flip side, someone setting a van on fire does not mean people protesting the current law enforcement system are wrong.

So to you and Tsolid, this is a hell of a lot more rational than, "eff all cops".  I don't agree that the whole system needs to be revamped.  I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there where the system works just fine and we can copy those examples instead of tearing it all down. 
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Online michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53677
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #606 on: June 02, 2020, 11:13:27 AM »
So to you and Tsolid, this is a hell of a lot more rational than, "eff all cops".  I don't agree that the whole system needs to be revamped.  I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there where the system works just fine and we can copy those examples instead of tearing it all down. 

to be clear, eff all cops

Offline Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 51305
  • BSPAC
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #607 on: June 02, 2020, 11:14:53 AM »

Offline cfbandyman

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9217
  • To da 'ville.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #608 on: June 02, 2020, 11:17:45 AM »
One thing I've drawn from this that is a bit of a new revelation for me and I think a beneficial outcome of some of even the uglier scenes of violence in the protests is this: Police doing unjust things (and especially using violence unjustly) creates a public safety concern beyond their own limited bad act.  That's a pretty constructive disincentive for police to keep in mind moving forward.

If nothing else, don't do bad things because bad things lead to dangerous riots.  You can argue about the legitimacy of dangerous riots, but it's clear that that's a possible effect.  Whether or not the resulting violent riots are justified is pretty arbitrary.

The cops who would do the bad things are the exact same cops who really want a riot.
Even if that were true (which who knows), the incentives still exist at the societal level.  As some one who was finger wagging the violent protests over the last week (while still acknowledging that police action giving rise to it was reprehensible), my view on it has kind of changed, which is a credit to the protests, peaceful or otherwise.  You have to kind of divorce yourself from moral judgments on violent responses (which I do think are wrong) and view them as an objective effect of bad policing.

It isn't really enough to say burning a media van (for example) is bad.  Of course it's bad.  But it's also apparent that a burned police van in KC is one possible result of bad policing (locally and elsewhere).  So let's do our best not to have bad policing -- not only because it will result in fewer lives lost as a proximate cause of the bad/unjust policing, but also because it will result in less violence/lives lost as a possible response.

When police do bad things, more bad things (and maybe even worse things) happen.  So it becomes very important for police not to do bad things.

In general my views started to shade this way by watching all the videos of the protests and actually seeing how the majority of protesters behave, and then how the cops behave. Most protesters are doing what all protesters ever do, mostly chanting, walking, marching, sign holding, etc. But the cops? How have they reacted? With tear gas, rubber bullets, steam rolling through people both in the protest and bystanders. Like, we're literally watching you all being protested in large part for police brutality and you're literally showing police brutality in response.

So for me (along with seeing that meme about you can't protest like this! not that, no not that, not not that") that really encapsulates the true anger and desire to stop seeing a large amount of the police behave the way they have. And while you shouldn't torch crap, you shouldn't be violent, you're being met violently. It's the only sort of rational way in that situation for it to go. It's truly disheartening, but also truly what would happen in response.
A&M Style: 1/19/13 Co-Champion of THE ED's College Basketball Challenge

The art of the deal with it poors

OG Elon hater with a tesla


Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #609 on: June 02, 2020, 11:18:24 AM »
I think the violent rioting does a lot to reduce overall support for change from the general population.
Then I don't think the people you're referencing are acting logically.

Yeah. I don't, either.

Offline cfbandyman

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9217
  • To da 'ville.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #610 on: June 02, 2020, 11:20:02 AM »
Oh, weird.


https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1267626627967725570

in the category of things we already knew

But, but, but Soros is behind the white supremacist group behind the antifa group!
A&M Style: 1/19/13 Co-Champion of THE ED's College Basketball Challenge

The art of the deal with it poors

OG Elon hater with a tesla


Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 37049
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #611 on: June 02, 2020, 11:23:50 AM »
The police reaction to all of this kind of seems like they are staging their own violent protest against having to protect minorities.

Offline treysolid

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3483
  • complacent and self-involved
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #612 on: June 02, 2020, 11:25:32 AM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

I think you should be able to say that about the reverse here too correct?  There are good cops right?.  I'm curious what % of bad cops you think there are?

No, they are two different things. The current police system is "bad" and needs to change, regardless of what percentage of individual cops are "good". The presence of "good cops" does not mean the system of policing is good. I'd also argue that the only true "good cops" are ones that completely want to change the system, which I would guess is a pretty low percentage.

On the flip side, someone setting a van on fire does not mean people protesting the current law enforcement system are wrong.

So to you and Tsolid, this is a hell of a lot more rational than, "eff all cops".  I don't agree that the whole system needs to be revamped.  I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there where the system works just fine and we can copy those examples instead of tearing it all down.

Because you're living a very privileged life. I would encourage you to talk to as many black and brown people as you can and listen to their experiences with law enforcement and the judicial system here in america

Offline mocat

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 39044
    • View Profile

Offline treysolid

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3483
  • complacent and self-involved
    • View Profile

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2740
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #615 on: June 02, 2020, 12:25:56 PM »
So to you and Tsolid, this is a hell of a lot more rational than, "eff all cops".  I don't agree that the whole system needs to be revamped.  I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there where the system works just fine and we can copy those examples instead of tearing it all down. 

to be clear, eff all cops

Well that's nice!  How incredibly ignorant, pathetic and sad.
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15791
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #616 on: June 02, 2020, 12:27:42 PM »
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15107
    • View Profile
The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #617 on: June 02, 2020, 12:38:58 PM »
Kellie Carter Jackson hits this one out of the park.

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/06/riots-are-american-way-george-floyd-protests/612466/?utm_source=digg
They’re solid points other than failing to address that the types of violent protests and revolutions held up as exemplars occurred over 200 years ago, with relatively successful nonviolent movements led by MLK, Ghandi, and Mandela since then.

I don’t think we’re wrong to hold the nonviolent movements up as the goal, but I definitely keep coming back to Kap and other athletes peacefully protesting the exact same stuff and being told it wasn’t the right way. We’re reaping what we sewed in that regard.

Online michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53677
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #618 on: June 02, 2020, 12:55:09 PM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

Also poorly worded. No doubt, there are some garbage/racist cops out there but this statement would make one assume that all cops are bad guys.

"cops" refers to the broken system of policing and anyone who is a cop that supports the current system

Offline IPA4Me

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 6962
  • El Guapo
    • View Profile
    • Life Advice
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #619 on: June 02, 2020, 01:01:07 PM »
RIP Omaha. Your governor is a racist.

[tweet]1267871444685459460[/tweet]


https://twitter.com/chicagotribune/status/1267854250605981696

Offline I_have_purplewood

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2740
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #620 on: June 02, 2020, 01:11:31 PM »
I don't think setting news vehicles on fire is helping their cause, though.

why isn't it your cause too?
I guess because i'm not out there too right now. I fully support the message of the protest. My apologies if I worded it wrongly.

:thumbs: don't let a news van burned by some knuckleheads make you forget that cops are the bad guys here!

I think you should be able to say that about the reverse here too correct?  There are good cops right?.  I'm curious what % of bad cops you think there are?

No, they are two different things. The current police system is "bad" and needs to change, regardless of what percentage of individual cops are "good". The presence of "good cops" does not mean the system of policing is good. I'd also argue that the only true "good cops" are ones that completely want to change the system, which I would guess is a pretty low percentage.

On the flip side, someone setting a van on fire does not mean people protesting the current law enforcement system are wrong.

So to you and Tsolid, this is a hell of a lot more rational than, "eff all cops".  I don't agree that the whole system needs to be revamped.  I'm sure there are plenty of examples out there where the system works just fine and we can copy those examples instead of tearing it all down.

Because you're living a very privileged life. I would encourage you to talk to as many black and brown people as you can and listen to their experiences with law enforcement and the judicial system here in america

Wait what, I am?  No crap.  You on the other hand I'm sure have traveled this great country far and wide and know exactly the trials and tribulations that the "black and brown" people have suffered eh?  gmafb with this painting of the broad brush.  It gets tiresome.  Change will need to happen so I agree with you. I just don't think it needs to be stripped down to it's core and it doesn't have anything to do with how privileged my life is.
What are YOU currently doing to start this 'stripping down' of the system?  Hopefully more than just continuing to pound on your keyboard in this forum?  Not that you haven't done a bang-up job..
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline DQ12

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 22226
  • #TeamChestHair
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #621 on: June 02, 2020, 01:12:56 PM »
The problem is phrases like "the whole system needs revamped" is such a vague statement that I think wood and rusty are probably imagining two different things.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Cire

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 19684
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #622 on: June 02, 2020, 01:14:17 PM »
Cops in this country literally get away with murder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline star seed 7

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 63776
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: The riot to reform police thread
« Reply #623 on: June 02, 2020, 01:17:51 PM »
RIP Omaha. Your governor is a racist.

[tweet]1267871444685459460[/tweet]


https://twitter.com/chicagotribune/status/1267854250605981696

Watched the video but not going to read the article, does it ever say what his problem with "you people" is? Maybe it's that they are just too darn likable?

Grey area
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline nicname

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15791
  • Deal with it.
    • View Profile
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.