Author Topic: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread  (Read 1558597 times)

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Offline Justwin

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1225 on: March 15, 2020, 11:31:20 PM »
The governor pretty clearly states that he's concerned with and is working on addressing the economic impact.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1239376580729700352

So what is he actually doing to address the economic impact, besides expressing his concern?

Offline Trim

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1226 on: March 15, 2020, 11:40:19 PM »
The governor pretty clearly states that he's concerned with and is working on addressing the economic impact.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1239376580729700352

The jobless here that are familiar with the governor and the county and the city council aren't moved.

Offline chum1

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1227 on: March 15, 2020, 11:45:10 PM »
They did the closures here earlier tonight but forgot the part of implementing something for all the business owners and now-unemployed or even saying anything's being considered.

The city council?

State but specifically to the county, it's supposed to be right now rather than starting tomorrow.

The council seems to be doing their part. And so is the public at 01:49:15.


Offline Trim

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1228 on: March 15, 2020, 11:54:10 PM »
The council seems to be doing their part. And so is the public at 01:49:15.



:emawkid:

Council and mayor had a big circlejerk over their pledge to make grants of up to $10K available to small businesses affected.  Turned out that to qualify, the small business had to have 5 or less employees.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1229 on: March 15, 2020, 11:55:24 PM »
The governor pretty clearly states that he's concerned with and is working on addressing the economic impact.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1239376580729700352

The jobless here that are familiar with the governor and the county and the city council aren't moved.

You said nothing was being considered, which was wrong. I get that you don't think it's enough and I agree with you, There should have at least been eviction and utiillity shutoff moratoriums in place that I mentioned before but I still think they're making the right call.

Offline Trim

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1230 on: March 15, 2020, 11:58:14 PM »
The governor pretty clearly states that he's concerned with and is working on addressing the economic impact.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1239376580729700352

The jobless here that are familiar with the governor and the county and the city council aren't moved.

You said nothing was being considered, which was wrong. I get that you don't think it's enough and I agree with you, There should have at least been eviction and utiillity shutoff moratoriums in place that I mentioned before but I still think they're making the right call.

Where are you getting that something was/is being considered?  This from Inslee's tweet?

Quote
We have, and will continue to take steps to mitigate those challenges.

Offline treysolid

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1231 on: March 16, 2020, 01:04:20 AM »
how do we factor in the long-term health effects of covid-19 (like loss of lung function) into justwins table???

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1232 on: March 16, 2020, 01:20:31 AM »
ELI5 to me how this and H1N1 differed as it rolled out around the world and we didn't cancel anything?

this one is like 20-150 times more lethal.

Does it also spread easier?  Spread more with asymptotic people?

Looking at the H1N1 stats it looks like a lot of people got it and a lot of people died but I don't remember doing crap different in my life in 2009.

I'm getting caught up and I'm sure this has been addressed but there is no connection at all to what H1N1 was in this country and what COVID-19 is. Unlike most on this board, and in America I had a very scary front row to H1N1, this is much scarier. For starters H1N1 wasn't widespread, it was limited to pockets. I was in one of those pockets. I was assistant director at a summer camp that had 23 cases of H1N1. The first important distinction I want to make is how the diseases were diagnosed. H1N1 was a flu, meaning it was much easier to diagnose, in fact it may have been over diagnosed, as at the time other strains of flu were not distinguished. The second distinction that should be pointed out is because H1N1 was a flu, you could have taken Tamiflu to mitigate the symptoms, and for the most part those flu symptoms are what killed people. Those dying from COVID aren't dying from that but from a host of other associated diseases, ones that can't be treated with a series of 5 pills. I had my first born, a 5 month old, among that H1N1 outbreak. 11 years later, I'm much more fearful for her now than I was then, despite this being much less deadly for her age now than H1N1 was then.

Long story short COVID is much harder to diagnose, much more widespread, and doesn't come with the treatment options that H1N1 did.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1233 on: March 16, 2020, 01:38:35 AM »
local school districts are alos struggling with this in areas where local departments of health are being indecisive.

it is almost like bottom up leadership is problematic
Yep. They don't want to be the ones blamed if kids don't get meals or parents can't go to work because they don't have anyone to watch their kids

Exactly what I struggled with. The state of Iowa hadn't been shut down, in fact as of Saturday night the governor and the state dept of public health advised schools to stay open. We were slated to have spring break camp starting Monday morning. Because all of these parents still have to work, I felt obligated to stay open so they won't miss checks because they have to stay home with their children. Well with tonight's new guidance from the CDC, and now public spread in Iowa, before all cases were 14 elderly people who were on the same Greek cruise, the governor changed her tone and ordered all schools closed for the next four weeks. I decided to cancel camp this week, 80 kids each day, and now we're going to talk about cancelling summer camp. Half of our staff are international, including 23 Europeans.

I feel awful for the parents with kids at home, some absolutely missing meals and paychecks. FWIW, everyone we called tonight were total sweethearts.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1234 on: March 16, 2020, 01:39:25 AM »
The US healthcare system will pull itself up by its bootstraps for sure.

lol, I see what you did here.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1235 on: March 16, 2020, 01:50:48 AM »
on the one hand we could listen to epidemiologists, on the other we could listen to ksuw calling us little girls.

So what are the epidemiologists saying is the number of QALYs we are saving through all of these actions?

I sure hope this is a joke, like a complete punchline I'm missing. My wife is scared shitless that she's going to lose her mother, grandmother, and grandfather before our son turns 1, I'm worried about the same about my mother, who lost her mother the day before my 1st birthday. We have people on here seemingly wondering about the benefits of thinning the herd.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1236 on: March 16, 2020, 01:54:03 AM »
https://twitter.com/pklinkne/status/1239212239263055872

3% mortality rate!  Ha!  People using that as a mortality rate are either clueless or fear mongering.  It is much more likely that the mortality rate is 0.5% than it is 3%.

Moreover, there is no adjustment for age of death in those statistics.  Again either as a result of someone who is clueless or a fear mongerer.

Nope, no punchline this [redacted] was being dead serious. Well I suppose he can take solace in the fact that he doesn't know anyone on this board and can be unaffected if/when some of us lose ones because who gives a eff, they're old anyway. Party on!

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1237 on: March 16, 2020, 02:19:32 AM »
Actuarial tables should not be mistaken for a moral framework.

No truer words spoken.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1238 on: March 16, 2020, 02:40:26 AM »
The governor pretty clearly states that he's concerned with and is working on addressing the economic impact.

https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/1239376580729700352

The jobless here that are familiar with the governor and the county and the city council aren't moved.

You said nothing was being considered, which was wrong. I get that you don't think it's enough and I agree with you, There should have at least been eviction and utiillity shutoff moratoriums in place that I mentioned before but I still think they're making the right call.

Where are you getting that something was/is being considered?  This from Inslee's tweet?

Quote
We have, and will continue to take steps to mitigate those challenges.

You've questioned the efforts to close restaurants and bars without a solution for those missing income, but unless I've missed something I haven't seen you propose a solution. It's very easy to just believe that everyone else has it wrong. Are you proposing for a federal solution, state, local? All of these, before any action can be taken to mitigate the growth of this pandemic? Doesn't it stand to reason that waiting for a perfect solution could damage the economy in the long term enough to do more permanent harm to these restaurant and bar positions than closing on a short term basis? Also is all this hand wringing about restaurant and bars simply about restaurant and bars or just a metaphor for all hourly, non-unionized employees? If we're speaking frankly about the winners and losers of the economic impact of this, restaurant and bar employees are way down on my list of concern for a variety of reasons, the most of those being they are working in a highly volatile industry that could literally see them lose their job any day, without warning. It's damn near the least bit of job security for any industry out there.

Offline Trim

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1239 on: March 16, 2020, 02:46:52 AM »
You missed something.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1240 on: March 16, 2020, 05:08:12 AM »
I went back to page 45 and didn't see anything close to a proposed solution. I fear if I go back farther I'll see more questions about face touching.

Online steve dave

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Online steve dave

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1242 on: March 16, 2020, 07:47:12 AM »

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1243 on: March 16, 2020, 07:49:03 AM »
They did the closures here earlier tonight but forgot the part of implementing something for all the business owners and now-unemployed or even saying anything's being considered.

Shouldn't these employees be falling back on unemployment in the short term?  No doubt government isn't going to have an emergency funding plan right now.


Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1245 on: March 16, 2020, 09:35:37 AM »
70 year olds aren't going to die in a few months you braindead moron.

Ok waks you got me there.  Except that most 70 year olds that get coronavirus won't die!

The people that die from coronavirus are on average 81 years old and have underlying health (especially respiratory and immune) issues that mean their life expectancy is not very long.

That is the average age in Italy because they have a much older population. It wasn’t the average age in China. It will not be the average age in the US and it certainly won’t be the average age in Africa.

Offline Justwin

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1246 on: March 16, 2020, 10:13:24 AM »
I sure hope this is a joke, like a complete punchline I'm missing. My wife is scared shitless that she's going to lose her mother, grandmother, and grandfather before our son turns 1, I'm worried about the same about my mother, who lost her mother the day before my 1st birthday. We have people on here seemingly wondering about the benefits of thinning the herd.

Nope, no punchline this [redacted] was being dead serious. Well I suppose he can take solace in the fact that he doesn't know anyone on this board and can be unaffected if/when some of us lose ones because who gives a eff, they're old anyway. Party on!

There are people out there that are scared shitless they are going to lose their homes, lose their cars, go into bankruptcy due to all of the closings.  Businesses are being destroyed and people are losing their jobs, but there is no concern being paid to this collateral damage.  Financial distress is a leading precursor of suicide.  There is little doubt that people are going to commit suicide largely due to the financial destruction being wrought by these policies being enacted in response to COVID-19.  There will also be an increase in depression, alcohol abuse and drug abuse.  Cash transfers and other temporary financial solutions won't bring businesses back that are being destroyed.  Those individuals may have lost their livelihood forever.

There are officials also talking about implementing a complete lock down.  How many women and children is this going to lock into a domestic violence situation that will be exacerbated by the lock down.  Will this result in any deaths?

Nobody likes to weigh costs and benefits in situations like these.  It makes them uncomfortable trying to place a value on saving people's lives.  However that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.  I have 80+ year old grandparents and parents that are 65+.  I know plenty of people that are at a higher risk of mortality from COVID-19.  I just don't think that my personal fears should preempt a rational evaluation of the proposals to mitigate the effects of COVID-19.

Offline Justwin

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1247 on: March 16, 2020, 10:17:22 AM »
70 year olds aren't going to die in a few months you braindead moron.

Ok waks you got me there.  Except that most 70 year olds that get coronavirus won't die!

The people that die from coronavirus are on average 81 years old and have underlying health (especially respiratory and immune) issues that mean their life expectancy is not very long.

That is the average age in Italy because they have a much older population. It wasn’t the average age in China. It will not be the average age in the US and it certainly won’t be the average age in Africa.

That's a fair point.  However, the average life expectancy for someone who dies from COVID-19 is not going to be anywhere near the average life expectancy for a typical person of the same age.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #1248 on: March 16, 2020, 10:25:43 AM »
I sure hope this is a joke, like a complete punchline I'm missing. My wife is scared shitless that she's going to lose her mother, grandmother, and grandfather before our son turns 1, I'm worried about the same about my mother, who lost her mother the day before my 1st birthday. We have people on here seemingly wondering about the benefits of thinning the herd.

Nope, no punchline this [redacted] was being dead serious. Well I suppose he can take solace in the fact that he doesn't know anyone on this board and can be unaffected if/when some of us lose ones because who gives a eff, they're old anyway. Party on!

There are people out there that are scared shitless they are going to lose their homes, lose their cars, go into bankruptcy due to all of the closings.  Businesses are being destroyed and people are losing their jobs, but there is no concern being paid to this collateral damage.  Financial distress is a leading precursor of suicide.  There is little doubt that people are going to commit suicide largely due to the financial destruction being wrought by these policies being enacted in response to COVID-19.  There will also be an increase in depression, alcohol abuse and drug abuse.  Cash transfers and other temporary financial solutions won't bring businesses back that are being destroyed.  Those individuals may have lost their livelihood forever.

There are officials also talking about implementing a complete lock down.  How many women and children is this going to lock into a domestic violence situation that will be exacerbated by the lock down.  Will this result in any deaths?

Nobody likes to weigh costs and benefits in situations like these.  It makes them uncomfortable trying to place a value on saving people's lives.  However that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.  I have 80+ year old grandparents and parents that are 65+.  I know plenty of people that are at a higher risk of mortality from COVID-19.  I just don't think that my personal fears should preempt a rational evaluation of the proposals to mitigate the effects of COVID-19.

Is your argument that the stress effects would be less if drastic measures wasn't taken and the number of deaths would be measured in the millions? Bold take.