Courtney Messingham is a proven loser

[muqluk]

To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance

That's not giving him a chance

That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.

I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything

If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)

[MakeItRain]

Like, I'm ok if Mess is gone but we're not gonna see dominant offense until there's a dominating OL (and a decent QB)

We definitely need an entire new crop of quarterbacks. If Rubley is a miss, then not having a QB in this class makes the miss 100x worse. You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.

[michigancat]

You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.

They got beaten up on the plays people are losing their minds over. I think they were a better unit overall last year.

To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance

That's not giving him a chance

That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.

I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything

If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)

They tried three different plays in four of the short plays people are losing their minds over.

[muqluk]

You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.

They got beaten up on the plays people are losing their minds over. I think they were a better unit overall last year.

To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance

That's not giving him a chance

That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.

I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything

If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)

They tried three different plays in four of the short plays people are losing their minds over.

If you think that's all people are upset about then I don't know what to tell you 

The ineptitude on display in such a blatant fashion on those plays just happened to be the straw(s) that broke the camel's back.

But that's besides the point - you're changing the topic.

Address the original please.  How is it on the OL at all?

[Trim]

Messingham does suck, but it's kind of lol pathetic that what we're mad about is him not adapting well to having a qb only competent at running adequately fast in a straight line most times.  And that KSU has a history of being in that situation and thus has a fanbase that thinks/knows there's a simple way to work around that.

Did you even watch the game, familiar with Texas? The rough ridin' work around was to hand the ball to the all American in the backfield who averaged six yards a rush, SIX. He had 24 carries, not nearly enough. I don't know if I pointed it out here or on twitter but only Iowa State had less rushes in conference play. If you have a quarterback who is as bad as you make him out to be, you take the rough ridin' ball out of his hands.

You can't make fun of Howard then act like the fans are irrational because the offensive coordinator thought it was a good idea to run the rough ridin' option with him on a fourth down. I defy anyone to come up with a worse play call than that option call on the last fourth down. Will Howard threw 13 passes for 65 yards and was given the chance to run a speed option on the last play of the game. What the eff are we even talking about here?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  I was the one advocating for us to not even have a QB and if that's too outrageous, to have him involved with anything as little as possible.

So yes, the workaround was obvious and Messingham sucks for not doing it.

That said, it's mumped up that we're accustomed to needing it.  And that predates the entire Fh era.

[wiley]

I don’t know why they didn’t call a timeout on the 4th and 1 from our 30 and reassess.  This defensive front had this play stuffed before the ball was snapped.

[MakeItRain]

Rusty, those wildcat plays and particularly the speed option don't play to the strengths of our line, as evidenced by the fact we didn't do those things other than yesterday. They aren't pros, they're not going to blow the defense off the ball on every play, particularly those they don't block for often. Even with those awful three plays, the team averaged 6.5 rushes for the entire game. It's ridiculous to place any blame on the line when the team ran 35 times for 288 yards. They were hugely successful running single back and full back sets between the tackles. If mess stuck to what was working, he was making the calls, he should have known, no one is calling for his job, his coach wouldn't have called him out in the post game, and you wouldn't have to be reaching to blame anyone other than the dude paid to put the college athletes in the position to be most successful.

[michigancat]

Rusty, those wildcat plays and particularly the speed option don't play to the strengths of our line, as evidenced by the fact we didn't do those things other than yesterday. They aren't pros, they're not going to blow the defense off the ball on every play, particularly those they don't block for often. Even with those awful three plays, the team averaged 6.5 rushes for the entire game. It's ridiculous to place any blame on the line when the team ran 35 times for 288 yards. They were hugely successful running single back and full back sets between the tackles. If mess stuck to what was working, he was making the calls, he should have known, no one is calling for his job, his coach wouldn't have called him out in the post game, and you wouldn't have to be reaching to blame anyone other than the dude paid to put the college athletes in the position to be most successful.

Very fair! Again, the first third and short was a fullback lead, it wasn't an automatic first down. Also the run before the second third and short looked like a terrible spot and should have been a first down and then it probably wouldn't have mattered!

[MakeItRain]

I don’t know why they didn’t call a timeout on the 4th and 1 from our 30 and reassess.  This defensive front had this play stuffed before the ball was snapped.

They also should have called time out on that play where Deuce lost his shoe and then we ran some bullshit with Will. Both of these situations are on Klieman.

[MakeItRain]

Rusty, those wildcat plays and particularly the speed option don't play to the strengths of our line, as evidenced by the fact we didn't do those things other than yesterday. They aren't pros, they're not going to blow the defense off the ball on every play, particularly those they don't block for often. Even with those awful three plays, the team averaged 6.5 rushes for the entire game. It's ridiculous to place any blame on the line when the team ran 35 times for 288 yards. They were hugely successful running single back and full back sets between the tackles. If mess stuck to what was working, he was making the calls, he should have known, no one is calling for his job, his coach wouldn't have called him out in the post game, and you wouldn't have to be reaching to blame anyone other than the dude paid to put the college athletes in the position to be most successful.

Very fair! Again, the first third and short was a fullback lead, it wasn't an automatic first down. Also the run before the second third and short looked like a terrible spot and should have been a first down and then it probably wouldn't have mattered!

Back to back bad spots that were very frustrating.

[wiley]

I don’t know why they didn’t call a timeout on the 4th and 1 from our 30 and reassess.  This defensive front had this play stuffed before the ball was snapped.

They also should have called time out on that play where Deuce lost his shoe and then we ran some bullshit with Will. Both of these situations are on Klieman.

Agreed.  I didn’t get to see much of the game but caught that one as well oddly enough.

With the game on the line, i was also surprised that the play went to the right side of the oline.  But the interior was blown up, (on that play) so that may not have been the design.

[catastrophe]

I think it’s fair (although so obvious it’s practically pointless) to say that a change at OC might not fix anything, but I think it’s beyond argument that Mess has done nothing to make a case for keeping his job.

[DQ12]

I've been a pretty big Mess apologist, mostly because I agree with the general philosophy: Pro style with elements of QB run mixed in.  Personnel has hamstrung us a bit during Mess's tenure -- OL has been pretty good, not great (the offense requires a great OL, and I think we're on our way there); inconsistent QB play (both with and without Skylar, but especially without); and a below average WR corp.

That said, the Baylor and Texas games were pretty unforgiveable in my eyes.  Totally, 100% lost because the offense was terrible. 

[EMAWzifried]

Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?

[michigancat]

Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?

I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase

[wetwillie]

Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?

I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase

About a year too late for that I’m afraid

[michigancat]

Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?

I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase

About a year too late for that I’m afraid

Why?

[wetwillie]

He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.

[stunted]

how hard is it to draw up good pass plays? the field is so big

[michigancat]

He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.

Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though

[MakeItRain]

He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.

Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though

He's probably close to a million already and he's staying with Campbell. When Campbell got his latest extension he got a ton of money for his assistants so they don't get poached.

That being said I wouldn't want him anyway. He and that program haven't recruited better than this staff enough to garner that much reverence. They got Hall largely because they were first. They run a better offense than we do, they don't seem to be all that more talented though. Hall is slightly better than Deuce, despite him being careless, I do think Purdy is slightly better than Skylar. Other than that, I don't see any recruits they've landed better than anyone we have here.

[wetwillie]

He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.

Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though

He's probably close to a million already and he's staying with Campbell. When Campbell got his latest extension he got a ton of money for his assistants so they don't get poached.

That being said I wouldn't want him anyway. He and that program haven't recruited better than this staff enough to garner that much reverence. They got Hall largely because they were first. They run a better offense than we do, they don't seem to be all that more talented though. Hall is slightly better than Deuce, despite him being careless, I do think Purdy is slightly better than Skylar. Other than that, I don't see any recruits they've landed better than anyone we have here.

Jaylin Noel and Gregory Gaines come to mind

[michigancat]

Scheelhaase's public salary is $500k.

https://247sports.com/Article/Iowa-State-football-assistant-coach-salaries-revealed-Matt-Campbell-Jon-Heacock-Tom-Manning-166867261/Amp/

They seem to have a decent class this year

[michigancat]

But I am open to other names too

[wetwillie]

You’ll get Wells and you’ll like it