Post by: eastcat on September 29, 2019, 01:43:12 PM
Post by: catbacker 73 on September 30, 2019, 03:08:06 AM
Quote
eastcat
Courtney Messingham is a proven loser
Iowa State wash up. :Ugh:
I totally agree, eastcat. Those two National Championships coupled with beating Ms St on the road, 1st times K-State has done that, Just no good.
And then........ then you throw in the fact that the K-State running game is off the fastest start after 3 games in the last Seventy Years.
Time for Mess to go. :ksu:
BTW, I promise that I'll never ask you to cover my back on a street at noon on a very sunny day, much less in a tight jam.
Post by: eastcat on October 03, 2019, 09:02:35 PM
Quoteeastcat
Courtney Messingham is a proven loser
Iowa State wash up. :Ugh:
I totally agree, eastcat. Those two National Championships coupled with beating Ms St on the road, 1st times K-State has done that, Just no good.
And then........ then you throw in the fact that the K-State running game is off the fastest start after 3 games in the last Seventy Years.
Time for Mess to go. :ksu:
BTW, I promise that I'll never ask you to cover my back on a street at noon on a very sunny day, much less in a tight jam.
Refresh my mind. How good is our run game?
Post by: catbacker 73 on October 05, 2019, 04:32:03 AM
Quote
And then........ then you throw in the fact that the K-State running game is off the fastest start after 3 games in the last Seventy Years.[/b][/i][/u]
Sneer if you choose, not a good look though for a K-State fan. Since it's better than HOFHCBS did.
Post by: nicname on October 05, 2019, 02:55:18 PM
Post by: steve dave on October 05, 2019, 04:00:36 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: I_have_purplewood on October 05, 2019, 04:02:19 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on October 05, 2019, 04:41:16 PM
Post by: nicname on October 05, 2019, 05:46:58 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on October 05, 2019, 05:47:30 PM
Post by: Dugout DickStone on October 09, 2019, 11:46:58 AM
Post by: wetwillie on October 09, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
Post by: Kid In the Hall on October 09, 2019, 12:25:20 PM
Now, increase that by a factor of 1,000 and that's what it would take for Klieman to fire his college roommate.
Post by: nicname on October 09, 2019, 01:19:59 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/13e3d1ee2f0448268bdb333cce4f0238.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After rewatching the Baylor game, I think I was way too hard on Mess with this. The play calls were pretty decent for the most part. Mistakes by players or just generally getting owned by BU’s talented d-line were more typical culprits.
Post by: meow meow on October 09, 2019, 01:36:17 PM
Post by: nicname on October 09, 2019, 02:51:46 PM
why would you rewatch that?
Kinda fun to try to dissect a game sometimes for me.
Post by: KITNfury on October 09, 2019, 07:26:52 PM
Post by: wetwillie on October 09, 2019, 07:36:45 PM
I don't think play calling is even a top 5 problem.
Alright let’s hear the top 5 buddy!
Post by: MakeItRain on October 09, 2019, 08:01:15 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/13e3d1ee2f0448268bdb333cce4f0238.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After rewatching the Baylor game, I think I was way too hard on Mess with this. The play calls were pretty decent for the most part. Mistakes by players or just generally getting owned by BU’s talented d-line were more typical culprits.
Baylor also put 683 people in the box, and pressed the corners, knowing our quarterback wasn't going to complete anything beyond 3 yards down the field
Post by: Katpappy on October 09, 2019, 08:28:56 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/13e3d1ee2f0448268bdb333cce4f0238.jpg)
:thumbsup:
Nice pig snout. :love:
Post by: KITNfury on October 09, 2019, 08:45:29 PM
They basically all equate to talent, but no returning running backs, no real receivers coming back, losing Dickey and elite OL talent (as a whole, OL is primary reason for the offensive crap show), etc. No time to pass, can't run...you can't just play call around that. Mess might suck, but how would you even know with what he has to work with.I don't think play calling is even a top 5 problem.
Alright let’s hear the top 5 buddy!
Post by: Shooter Jones on October 09, 2019, 08:59:44 PM
Post by: meow meow on October 10, 2019, 08:21:02 AM
Post by: 'taterblast on October 10, 2019, 09:06:14 AM
Post by: catastrophe on October 10, 2019, 09:32:20 AM
Post by: catbacker 73 on October 13, 2019, 03:32:30 PM
Quote
this doesn't even really need to be said at this point, but who the OC is doesn't matter until we get better talent. FIRE DIMEL became FIRE COLEMAN became FIRE MESSINGHAM. it's a constant cycle of crap because we roll out Dalton Gruntley and a rough ridin' Weber as two of the main options to throw to.
Just so. After 3-4 years of HCCK putting his people in, there's where the difference will come.
Quote
Chris Klieman’s attempt to carry over LHC Bill Snyder’s physical and disciplined approach to football has a chance to be a shock to the Big 12 and put the Wildcats back in contention, but it’s going to come down to recruiting. Not whether Klieman can recruit Texas or the south for skill athletes like the other programs around the league, but whether he can find the same kinds of big framed, physical bullies that he built the Bison dynasty around. If he can, the skill athletes from the JUCOs, Oklahoma, Texas, and Missouri are going to flock to Manhattan.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2018/12/11/18135990/can-chris-klieman-duplicate-bison-dominance-at-kansas-state-north-dakota-state
Post by: nicname on November 26, 2021, 01:54:04 PM
Post by: Winters on November 26, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Post by: wiley on November 26, 2021, 01:59:56 PM
Needs to be fired immediately.I’ll be his contract is renewed for another 2 or 3 years.
Post by: PurpleOil on November 26, 2021, 02:44:55 PM
Post by: BIG APPLE CAT on November 26, 2021, 03:42:07 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 26, 2021, 04:16:54 PM
Post by: steve dave on November 26, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Post by: nicname on November 26, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: muqluk on November 26, 2021, 05:57:29 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 26, 2021, 09:04:48 PM
Man, don't hire your friends for jobs. This is going to change his friendship with Klieman forever. Either they ride this out eventually ending with both of them getting fired when Gene retires or Klieman fires him to salvage his program.
Post by: outofstate on November 26, 2021, 09:31:31 PM
Post by: muqluk on November 26, 2021, 09:32:51 PM
Then what it looks like subtracting NDSU
Post by: MakeItRain on November 26, 2021, 09:57:54 PM
are there any coaches on the offense worth keeping? Riley? Anderson?
I'm fine with anyone other than the person calling plays. Our offense isn't great to watch, or recruit to, it lessens the margin of error, and the play calling is schizophrenic.
The position coaches need to recruit and develop. Both of these things need to improve but in both cases it's too early to hit three reset button. A program like ours needs to develop continuity and consistency
Post by: Kid In the Hall on November 26, 2021, 10:02:02 PM
are there any coaches on the offense worth keeping? Riley? Anderson?
I'm fine with anyone other than the person calling plays. Our offense isn't great to watch, or recruit to, it lessens the margin of error, and the play calling is schizophrenic.
The position coaches need to recruit and develop. Both of these things need to improve but in both cases it's too early to hit three reset button. A program like ours needs to develop continuity and consistency
Aside from Messingham, Ray would be a top target for a pink slip. Gundy fired him after 2 years as WR coach at OSU and then he toiled in FCS until being picked up off the scrap heap. The fact that he was essentially demoted for this year (from WR coach to TE/FB coach) isn't a great sign...
Post by: MakeItRain on November 26, 2021, 10:52:06 PM
Post by: catastrophe on November 26, 2021, 10:52:14 PM
Post by: tdaver on November 27, 2021, 01:05:01 AM
Post by: Houstoncat93 on November 27, 2021, 08:06:53 AM
https://twitter.com/cole_manbeck/status/1464456900792225795?s=21
15 avg yards per drive
4.3 yards per play
2.4 yards per play when you take out the KU 75 yarder
1.27 points per drive
0 turnovers :ksu: (had to find something positive in that stinking pile of rancid crap)
Post by: PurpleOil on November 27, 2021, 08:23:29 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 27, 2021, 08:35:37 AM
It's 8:23am and Courtney Messingham is still somehow employed
He’s going to retire. They will give him that dignity.
Post by: Houstoncat93 on November 27, 2021, 09:48:28 AM
https://twitter.com/Cole_Manbeck/status/1464615030092177419?s=20
https://twitter.com/Cole_Manbeck/status/1464620658927747073?s=20
Post by: outofstate on November 27, 2021, 11:00:54 AM
are there any coaches on the offense worth keeping? Riley? Anderson?
I'm fine with anyone other than the person calling plays. Our offense isn't great to watch, or recruit to, it lessens the margin of error, and the play calling is schizophrenic.
The position coaches need to recruit and develop. Both of these things need to improve but in both cases it's too early to hit three reset button. A program like ours needs to develop continuity and consistency
I agree that isn't time to blow it up, but Ray was demoted after last year and I don't think he has done enough to retain him, especially if you can upgrade. No doubt CM needs to go whether he is fired, moves on or retires. just needs to :buh-bye:
Post by: Purple Derpathy on November 27, 2021, 11:05:52 AM
Post by: Cire on November 27, 2021, 11:10:57 AM
He’s had 3 years to make jacardia ready and he’s unplayable apparently
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on November 27, 2021, 11:17:03 AM
crap don’t give Anderson a pass
He’s had 3 years to make jacardia ready and he’s unplayable apparently
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You really do play your part well, I’ll give you that.
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 27, 2021, 12:13:51 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 12:42:10 PM
crap don’t give Anderson a pass
He’s had 3 years to make jacardia ready and he’s unplayable apparently
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What the eff? You're serious?
Post by: stunted on November 27, 2021, 12:46:43 PM
Only Jake can calm these Waters.
Remember his bombs? :love: :love: :love:
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 12:49:43 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 12:51:52 PM
K-State Twitter is still incredibly angry, I haven't seen the fan base this united against a coach since Tim Tibesar and even that wasn't like this because Tibesar didn't have a solitary game that saw everyone quickly turn against him.IMO it's a bit over the top
Post by: wetwillie on November 27, 2021, 12:54:44 PM
K-State Twitter is still incredibly angry, I haven't seen the fan base this united against a coach since Tim Tibesar and even that wasn't like this because Tibesar didn't have a solitary game that saw everyone quickly turn against him.IMO it's a bit over the top
Let’s see some of the better excerpts!
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 27, 2021, 01:03:34 PM
Post by: pissclams on November 27, 2021, 01:10:45 PM
Post by: wetwillie on November 27, 2021, 01:19:50 PM
Post by: Cire on November 27, 2021, 03:14:13 PM
His resume is complete ass.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 04:39:50 PM
K-State Twitter is still incredibly angry, I haven't seen the fan base this united against a coach since Tim Tibesar and even that wasn't like this because Tibesar didn't have a solitary game that saw everyone quickly turn against him.IMO it's a bit over the top
Let’s see some of the better excerpts!
It's literally just people still mad, no one threatening violence, no boycotts, no doxxing just lots of tweets calling for him to be fired and pointing out things happening in other games when the OC doesn't crap himself.
Post by: muqluk on November 27, 2021, 05:09:10 PM
So people being generally reasonably outraged thenK-State Twitter is still incredibly angry, I haven't seen the fan base this united against a coach since Tim Tibesar and even that wasn't like this because Tibesar didn't have a solitary game that saw everyone quickly turn against him.IMO it's a bit over the top
Let’s see some of the better excerpts!
It's literally just people still mad, no one threatening violence, no boycotts, no doxxing just lots of tweets calling for him to be fired and pointing out things happening in other games when the OC doesn't crap himself.
Post by: wetwillie on November 27, 2021, 05:59:44 PM
Post by: Winters on November 27, 2021, 07:28:52 PM
God forbid being passionate and doing it within reason because they want to do better. As long as there isn't violence being threatened or family members brought up it's justified in this case. Im with the mob.So people being generally reasonably outraged thenK-State Twitter is still incredibly angry, I haven't seen the fan base this united against a coach since Tim Tibesar and even that wasn't like this because Tibesar didn't have a solitary game that saw everyone quickly turn against him.IMO it's a bit over the top
Let’s see some of the better excerpts!
It's literally just people still mad, no one threatening violence, no boycotts, no doxxing just lots of tweets calling for him to be fired and pointing out things happening in other games when the OC doesn't crap himself.
Post by: Trim on November 27, 2021, 07:31:41 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 07:50:45 PM
Messingham does suck, but it's kind of lol pathetic that what we're mad about is him not adapting well to having a qb only competent at running adequately fast in a straight line most times. And that KSU has a history of being in that situation and thus has a fanbase that thinks/knows there's a simple way to work around that.Yeah tbh with better players he'd be amazing. An OC change won't fix much unless they can recruit a QB with a second skill (plus OL and WR)
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 07:54:54 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 09:33:28 PM
Messingham does suck, but it's kind of lol pathetic that what we're mad about is him not adapting well to having a qb only competent at running adequately fast in a straight line most times. And that KSU has a history of being in that situation and thus has a fanbase that thinks/knows there's a simple way to work around that.
Did you even watch the game, familiar with Texas? The rough ridin' work around was to hand the ball to the all American in the backfield who averaged six yards a rush, SIX. He had 24 carries, not nearly enough. I don't know if I pointed it out here or on twitter but only Iowa State had less rushes in conference play. If you have a quarterback who is as bad as you make him out to be, you take the rough ridin' ball out of his hands.
You can't make fun of Howard then act like the fans are irrational because the offensive coordinator thought it was a good idea to run the rough ridin' option with him on a fourth down. I defy anyone to come up with a worse play call than that option call on the last fourth down. Will Howard threw 13 passes for 65 yards and was given the chance to run a speed option on the last play of the game. What the eff are we even talking about here?
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 09:39:34 PM
Post by: muqluk on November 27, 2021, 09:44:52 PM
To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance
That's not giving him a chance
That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 09:46:19 PM
To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance
That's not giving him a chance
That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.
I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 09:51:19 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 09:52:24 PM
Like those fourth and short play calls weren't great but the OL should be able to get a yard regardless of play call and if they can't there aren't a ton of surefire plays there
The wildcat play by Deuce and that stupid option call both require the ball carrier to make proper reads. The option also requires the wide receiver to make the block.
Deuce had 4 carries for no gain or a loss. One of those was the first play of the game, the second, third, & fourth were when he ran the wildcat. That wasn't on the o line, they did a great job, that was stubborn play calling.
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 09:54:36 PM
The third and short for no gain was a handoff...Like those fourth and short play calls weren't great but the OL should be able to get a yard regardless of play call and if they can't there aren't a ton of surefire plays there
The wildcat play by Deuce and that stupid option call both require the ball carrier to make proper reads. The option also requires the wide receiver to make the block.
Deuce had 4 carries for no gain or a loss. One of those was the first play of the game, the second, third, & fourth were when he ran the wildcat. That wasn't on the o line, they did a great job, that was stubborn play calling.
Post by: muqluk on November 27, 2021, 09:54:53 PM
To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance
That's not giving him a chance
That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.
I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything
If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 09:56:05 PM
Like, I'm ok if Mess is gone but we're not gonna see dominant offense until there's a dominating OL (and a decent QB)
We definitely need an entire new crop of quarterbacks. If Rubley is a miss, then not having a QB in this class makes the miss 100x worse. You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 10:04:14 PM
You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.
They got beaten up on the plays people are losing their minds over. I think they were a better unit overall last year.
To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance
That's not giving him a chance
That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.
I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything
If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)
They tried three different plays in four of the short plays people are losing their minds over.
Post by: muqluk on November 27, 2021, 10:06:22 PM
You can't have a running back in college as productive as Deuce behind a bad line, they've been good.
They got beaten up on the plays people are losing their minds over. I think they were a better unit overall last year.To be fair they tried giving deuce the ball on three straight one-yard-to-gain plays and all three had failed. Granted two of them were in the wildcat but it wasn't like they didn't give Deuce a chance
That's not giving him a chance
That's incompetence at such a level of mastery that it's impossible to differentiate between that and willfully throwing the game.
I think it says more about the quality of the OL than anything
If it really were the OL then it would still be an indictment of the OC and the play calls themselves - for being criminally stupid enough to call a play the OL cannot block for (mutltiple times!)
They tried three different plays in four of the short plays people are losing their minds over.
If you think that's all people are upset about then I don't know what to tell you :dunno:
The ineptitude on display in such a blatant fashion on those plays just happened to be the straw(s) that broke the camel's back.
But that's besides the point - you're changing the topic.
Address the original please. How is it on the OL at all?
Post by: Trim on November 27, 2021, 10:07:56 PM
Messingham does suck, but it's kind of lol pathetic that what we're mad about is him not adapting well to having a qb only competent at running adequately fast in a straight line most times. And that KSU has a history of being in that situation and thus has a fanbase that thinks/knows there's a simple way to work around that.
Did you even watch the game, familiar with Texas? The rough ridin' work around was to hand the ball to the all American in the backfield who averaged six yards a rush, SIX. He had 24 carries, not nearly enough. I don't know if I pointed it out here or on twitter but only Iowa State had less rushes in conference play. If you have a quarterback who is as bad as you make him out to be, you take the rough ridin' ball out of his hands.
You can't make fun of Howard then act like the fans are irrational because the offensive coordinator thought it was a good idea to run the rough ridin' option with him on a fourth down. I defy anyone to come up with a worse play call than that option call on the last fourth down. Will Howard threw 13 passes for 65 yards and was given the chance to run a speed option on the last play of the game. What the eff are we even talking about here?
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I was the one advocating for us to not even have a QB and if that's too outrageous, to have him involved with anything as little as possible.
So yes, the workaround was obvious and Messingham sucks for not doing it.
That said, it's mumped up that we're accustomed to needing it. And that predates the entire Fh era.
Post by: wiley on November 27, 2021, 10:13:02 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211128/707b81bcdd407bb1a7113dfa685e8fa2.jpg)
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 10:15:44 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 27, 2021, 10:19:00 PM
Rusty, those wildcat plays and particularly the speed option don't play to the strengths of our line, as evidenced by the fact we didn't do those things other than yesterday. They aren't pros, they're not going to blow the defense off the ball on every play, particularly those they don't block for often. Even with those awful three plays, the team averaged 6.5 rushes for the entire game. It's ridiculous to place any blame on the line when the team ran 35 times for 288 yards. They were hugely successful running single back and full back sets between the tackles. If mess stuck to what was working, he was making the calls, he should have known, no one is calling for his job, his coach wouldn't have called him out in the post game, and you wouldn't have to be reaching to blame anyone other than the dude paid to put the college athletes in the position to be most successful.
Very fair! Again, the first third and short was a fullback lead, it wasn't an automatic first down. Also the run before the second third and short looked like a terrible spot and should have been a first down and then it probably wouldn't have mattered!
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 10:21:25 PM
I don’t know why they didn’t call a timeout on the 4th and 1 from our 30 and reassess. This defensive front had this play stuffed before the ball was snapped.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211128/707b81bcdd407bb1a7113dfa685e8fa2.jpg)
They also should have called time out on that play where Deuce lost his shoe and then we ran some bullshit with Will. Both of these situations are on Klieman.
Post by: MakeItRain on November 27, 2021, 10:22:28 PM
Rusty, those wildcat plays and particularly the speed option don't play to the strengths of our line, as evidenced by the fact we didn't do those things other than yesterday. They aren't pros, they're not going to blow the defense off the ball on every play, particularly those they don't block for often. Even with those awful three plays, the team averaged 6.5 rushes for the entire game. It's ridiculous to place any blame on the line when the team ran 35 times for 288 yards. They were hugely successful running single back and full back sets between the tackles. If mess stuck to what was working, he was making the calls, he should have known, no one is calling for his job, his coach wouldn't have called him out in the post game, and you wouldn't have to be reaching to blame anyone other than the dude paid to put the college athletes in the position to be most successful.
Very fair! Again, the first third and short was a fullback lead, it wasn't an automatic first down. Also the run before the second third and short looked like a terrible spot and should have been a first down and then it probably wouldn't have mattered!
Back to back bad spots that were very frustrating.
Post by: wiley on November 27, 2021, 10:23:54 PM
Agreed. I didn’t get to see much of the game but caught that one as well oddly enough.I don’t know why they didn’t call a timeout on the 4th and 1 from our 30 and reassess. This defensive front had this play stuffed before the ball was snapped.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211128/707b81bcdd407bb1a7113dfa685e8fa2.jpg)
They also should have called time out on that play where Deuce lost his shoe and then we ran some bullshit with Will. Both of these situations are on Klieman.
With the game on the line, i was also surprised that the play went to the right side of the oline. But the interior was blown up, (on that play) so that may not have been the design.
Post by: catastrophe on November 27, 2021, 10:41:01 PM
Post by: DQ12 on November 28, 2021, 11:10:09 AM
That said, the Baylor and Texas games were pretty unforgiveable in my eyes. Totally, 100% lost because the offense was terrible.
Post by: EMAWzifried on November 28, 2021, 11:46:48 AM
Post by: michigancat on November 28, 2021, 11:52:16 AM
Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase
Post by: wetwillie on November 28, 2021, 11:56:56 AM
Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase
About a year too late for that I’m afraid
Post by: michigancat on November 28, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Why?Can we dream the new OC would be a crackerjack recruiter?I think we should throw the bank and a promotion at Nathan Scheelhaase
About a year too late for that I’m afraid
Post by: wetwillie on November 28, 2021, 12:01:15 PM
Post by: stunted on November 28, 2021, 12:04:53 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 28, 2021, 12:06:09 PM
He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though
Post by: MakeItRain on November 28, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though
He's probably close to a million already and he's staying with Campbell. When Campbell got his latest extension he got a ton of money for his assistants so they don't get poached.
That being said I wouldn't want him anyway. He and that program haven't recruited better than this staff enough to garner that much reverence. They got Hall largely because they were first. They run a better offense than we do, they don't seem to be all that more talented though. Hall is slightly better than Deuce, despite him being careless, I do think Purdy is slightly better than Skylar. Other than that, I don't see any recruits they've landed better than anyone we have here.
Post by: wetwillie on November 28, 2021, 01:44:29 PM
He’s likely going to get an offer to be a big programs OC for 1M+ or he will be the OC at ISU if Campbell leaves.Who is going to pay him $1 million when he hasn't been an OC? I can see him getting promoted or following Campbell though
He's probably close to a million already and he's staying with Campbell. When Campbell got his latest extension he got a ton of money for his assistants so they don't get poached.
That being said I wouldn't want him anyway. He and that program haven't recruited better than this staff enough to garner that much reverence. They got Hall largely because they were first. They run a better offense than we do, they don't seem to be all that more talented though. Hall is slightly better than Deuce, despite him being careless, I do think Purdy is slightly better than Skylar. Other than that, I don't see any recruits they've landed better than anyone we have here.
Jaylin Noel and Gregory Gaines come to mind
Post by: michigancat on November 28, 2021, 01:45:17 PM
https://247sports.com/Article/Iowa-State-football-assistant-coach-salaries-revealed-Matt-Campbell-Jon-Heacock-Tom-Manning-166867261/Amp/
They seem to have a decent class this year
Post by: michigancat on November 28, 2021, 01:49:01 PM
Post by: wetwillie on November 28, 2021, 01:52:46 PM
Post by: nicname on November 28, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
My boy Ricky Rahne is currently getting paid ~750k/yr as HC at ODU. He’s showing early success in his rebuild there.
Not sure we’d be able to give him the kind of raise he’d want tho. My be too big a fish.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on November 28, 2021, 04:52:22 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 28, 2021, 04:57:24 PM
If in fact Klieman is targeting Wells, we'll probably need to wait for the carousel to slow down to see if we can get him. Wells will almost certainly try to get a G5 job.
Post by: wetwillie on November 28, 2021, 05:01:43 PM
A lot of P5 OCs got crap canned today.
If in fact Klieman is targeting Wells, we'll probably need to wait for the carousel to slow down to see if we can get him. Wells will almost certainly try to get a G5 job.
Yea this is not ideal environment for the Wells to KSU contingent.
Post by: MakeItRain on November 28, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
A lot of P5 OCs got crap canned today.
If in fact Klieman is targeting Wells, we'll probably need to wait for the carousel to slow down to see if we can get him. Wells will almost certainly try to get a G5 job.
Yea this is not ideal environment for the Wells to KSU contingent.
I'm confused as to why Steve Addazio hasn't been fired yet, probably coming and there's going to be a lot of G5 openings.
Post by: Katpappy on November 28, 2021, 07:57:48 PM
Post by: tdaver on November 28, 2021, 08:15:58 PM
A lot of P5 OCs got crap canned today.
If in fact Klieman is targeting Wells, we'll probably need to wait for the carousel to slow down to see if we can get him. Wells will almost certainly try to get a G5 job.
Yea this is not ideal environment for the Wells to KSU contingent.
I'm confused as to why Steve Addazio hasn't been fired yet, probably coming and there's going to be a lot of G5 openings.
His buyout drops $2MM (from 5 to 3) on Thursday
Post by: MakeItRain on November 28, 2021, 10:52:21 PM
I don't think a 4-10 record will get a new coach fired. Also the team loves him, and he is a two time BCS champion.
Are you talking about Addazio? LOL, everyone there hates him. He's been an abject disaster on the field and he got ejected from their game this weekend. A football coach, ejected. tdaver laid it out, he'll be gone on Thursday.
Post by: DQ12 on November 28, 2021, 11:06:17 PM
That would be my target if I was trying to replace Mess.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 07:49:45 AM
I’d hire Anthony Tucker out of Utah State. Been around the block a bit. Has coordinated some pretty good offenses at UCF and Utah State. Fairly similar conceptually to what we’ve been trying to do. Certainly a guy we could get.He'd only been co-OC for one year at UCF and the other co-OC followed Heupel to Tennessee.
That would be my target if I was trying to replace Mess.
Intriguing but I don't see it happening unless he's like co-OC with Klein (who probably wouldn't like that, either). It's definitely not a clear upgrade
Post by: DQ12 on November 29, 2021, 08:18:12 AM
Post by: DQ12 on November 29, 2021, 08:21:49 AM
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 08:48:37 AM
Well we’re either going to have to take a chance on someone kind of green or we’re going to get some guy who is proven to be mediocre, imo.
I agree, which is why I like the idea of Scheelhaase (plus he adds recruiting cred, which might be more important!). But I think we can get someone with a little more G5 coordinator experience as well. (or maybe not).
Post by: DQ12 on November 29, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
Yeah, the problem is that a lot of those G5 coordinators don't stay G5 coordinators for long if their offense is anything to write home about.Well we’re either going to have to take a chance on someone kind of green or we’re going to get some guy who is proven to be mediocre, imo.
I agree, which is why I like the idea of Scheelhaase (plus he adds recruiting cred, which might be more important!). But I think we can get someone with a little more G5 coordinator experience as well. (or maybe not).
I'm all for Scheelhaase btw, I just think he'd be a tough one to nab, money-wise.
Post by: Katpappy on November 29, 2021, 11:12:36 AM
I don't think a 4-10 record will get a new coach fired. Also the team loves him, and he is a two time BCS champion.
Are you talking about Addazio? LOL, everyone there hates him. He's been an abject disaster on the field and he got ejected from their game this weekend. A football coach, ejected. tdaver laid it out, he'll be gone on Thursday.
Here are a few quotes from his players.What They Are Saying:
"Coach Addazio is an outstanding coach and an incredible person. He helped shape my brother and I into the men we are today. I would not be where I am today without Coach Addazio. He brings out the best in everyone he interacts with. He loves his players and we love him."
- Atlanta Falcons 2019 1st Round Draft Selection and former BC Eagle offensive lineman Chris Lindstrom
"I am so happy for Colorado State University! The Rams got a great man and great football coach in Steve Addazio. I wouldn't be the man I am today without him! Not only did he help me become the football player I am today, he was also was a father figure to me and my brother, Maurkice, while away from our family at the University of Florida. He turned two young kids from Lakeland, Fla. into men. I am now a Colorado State fan!"
- Former Florida offensive lineman and 1st round draft pick, current Los Angles Charger, Mike Pouncey
"When I think of football, I think of Steve Addazio. He is a great leader of men, and his knowledge of the game is like none other! Coach Addazio has always been another father figure to my brother and I. We love you coach, and good luck on your new journey!"
- Former Florida offensive lineman and 1st round draft pick, current Pittsburgh Steeler, Maurkice Pouncey
"Steve Addazio has all of the qualities you want in a head football coach. Coach Addazio and I have a long-standing relationship through coaching, including winning two national championships together at Florida, and I have seen first-hand how passionate he is about the game of football, the players he coaches, and the programs he leads. He is one of the nation's top recruiters and will represent Colorado State well. I am excited to see the Rams develop under his leadership."
- National Championship-winning head coach Urban Meyer
"Steve Addazio is a great recruiter, a better coach, an even better leader, and most importantly a better person. I am very excited for the Colorado State family and the future of Ram football."
– Former Boston College Athletic Director Brad Bates
"Steve Addazio is an outstanding coach, mentor, father and husband. He is passionate, a relentless recruiter and a creative football mind. Congratulations to Colorado State for hiring such a great coach and role model who will inspire students, alumni and fans."
– North Carolina Athletic Director Bubba Cunningham
Footer
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
https://youtube.com/shorts/YzSVmsrJEzk?feature=share
Post by: ChiComCat on November 29, 2021, 11:19:03 AM
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 11:22:03 AM
I'm worried that co-coordinator with Klein has a lot less appeal than being the lone guy. Additionally, Messingham catches all the crap for the offense but the fans give Klein a pass. Those would be pretty big negatives to me if I'm a coordinator with other P5 interest.I know MiR disagrees that CK was a factor but IMO Skylar did not develop well over his six years. Obviously injuries hurt but still.
Also Klein is not co-OC any more.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 11:23:29 AM
He makes less than Mess. And I assume we'll need a decent increase for whoever replaces MessYeah, the problem is that a lot of those G5 coordinators don't stay G5 coordinators for long if their offense is anything to write home about.Well we’re either going to have to take a chance on someone kind of green or we’re going to get some guy who is proven to be mediocre, imo.
I agree, which is why I like the idea of Scheelhaase (plus he adds recruiting cred, which might be more important!). But I think we can get someone with a little more G5 coordinator experience as well. (or maybe not).
I'm all for Scheelhaase btw, I just think he'd be a tough one to nab, money-wise.
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 11:26:03 AM
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 11:27:49 AM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
Post by: Shooter Jones on November 29, 2021, 11:28:47 AM
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 29, 2021, 11:32:53 AM
Post by: Cire on November 29, 2021, 11:58:53 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
My wetwillie trifecta would be Wells, Beaty, Held to replace Mess, Klein, and Ray.
Post by: Houstoncat93 on November 29, 2021, 12:12:43 PM
zero rumors that he is done
Aren't the rumors exactly the opposite? (ie team was told he is staying)
Post by: Shooter Jones on November 29, 2021, 12:16:59 PM
Are there rumors out there that Mess is done or are we all assuming? Seeing rando vague tweets about it.
Just assuming at this point, similarly to the conversations that took place after each shitty season during Snyder's time. This is the style of play for Klieman (Snyder then), and skilled guys/WR's will not want to be apart of it. Especially if Howard is your plan moving forward.
I would assume if Mess feels pressure and ends of retiring or leaves, CK will just bring in someone very similar to him, because that's almost all he's ever known.
Post by: ChiComCat on November 29, 2021, 12:20:14 PM
I'm worried that co-coordinator with Klein has a lot less appeal than being the lone guy. Additionally, Messingham catches all the crap for the offense but the fans give Klein a pass. Those would be pretty big negatives to me if I'm a coordinator with other P5 interest.I know MiR disagrees that CK was a factor but IMO Skylar did not develop well over his six years. Obviously injuries hurt but still.
Also Klein is not co-OC any more.
I didn't realize that he wasn't co-OC. That makes me feel better. I agree on Skylar. I don't think he ever went through progressions well and was as bad at it as ever against Baylor. The worst part about it against Baylor is that he was too injured to try to cover for it by running. On the plus side, I think Klein has recruited Colorado pretty well.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
My wetwillie trifecta would be Wells, Beaty, Held to replace Mess, Klein, and Ray.
tbh I'd prefer 2 of the 3 be young hotshot recruiters (of which we seem to have none) if we replace three.
Post by: catastrophe on November 29, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Post by: chum1 on November 29, 2021, 01:10:47 PM
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 01:20:31 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
My wetwillie trifecta would be Wells, Beaty, Held to replace Mess, Klein, and Ray.
tbh I'd prefer 2 of the 3 be young hotshot recruiters (of which we seem to have none) if we replace three.
Held definitely fits the criteria. Beaty riding on his hover board probably still wouldn’t earn him a young hot shot tag tho.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 01:26:09 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
My wetwillie trifecta would be Wells, Beaty, Held to replace Mess, Klein, and Ray.
tbh I'd prefer 2 of the 3 be young hotshot recruiters (of which we seem to have none) if we replace three.
Held definitely fits the criteria. Beaty riding on his hover board probably still wouldn’t earn him a young hot shot tag tho.
he's definitely not what I'd consider "young" but he's relatively new to D1. Why did he get fired? just to clean out the offensive staff?
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 01:29:05 PM
I trust Kleiman to make the right choice on where to put Klein. I don’t trust him to do the same with Mess.
I assume every D1 football coach would fire his mother if they thought it would help win football games
Post by: catastrophe on November 29, 2021, 01:50:36 PM
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 01:51:57 PM
My concern is with his judgment in that department, not his ethics.
if he can judge klein he can judge mess
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 01:53:25 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
My wetwillie trifecta would be Wells, Beaty, Held to replace Mess, Klein, and Ray.
tbh I'd prefer 2 of the 3 be young hotshot recruiters (of which we seem to have none) if we replace three.
Held definitely fits the criteria. Beaty riding on his hover board probably still wouldn’t earn him a young hot shot tag tho.
he's definitely not what I'd consider "young" but he's relatively new to D1. Why did he get fired? just to clean out the offensive staff?
Yea you are right older than I thought, but yes the Nebraska AD forced Scott to fire his offensive assistants since that side of the ball had been lacking.
Post by: Trim on November 29, 2021, 02:20:05 PM
I trust Kleiman to make the right choice on where to put Klein. I don’t trust him to do the same with Mess.
I assume every D1 football coach would fire his mother if they thought it would help win football games
This will make for a good data point on the d1/d2 thing.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on November 29, 2021, 02:20:52 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 02:29:47 PM
I'm worried that co-coordinator with Klein has a lot less appeal than being the lone guy. Additionally, Messingham catches all the crap for the offense but the fans give Klein a pass. Those would be pretty big negatives to me if I'm a coordinator with other P5 interest.I know MiR disagrees that CK was a factor but IMO Skylar did not develop well over his six years. Obviously injuries hurt but still.
Also Klein is not co-OC any more.
I mean it's ludicrous that Skylar didn't develop, just a preposterous notion. Let's just forget about the fact that under Snyder he couldn't win the job from Alex Delton. He had a month to know he was going to be the starter for that Cactus Bowl game and was 3-7 for 27 yards, 1 interception, and 5 carries for 4 yards. Just a complete horror show. So I'm going to not include the his numbers from his two Snyder years.
Here are his numbers in 2019:
177/297 60%
2315 yds
12 tds
5 ints
Passer rating of 135.0
178 yards per game
13.0 yards per completion
7.7 yards per attempt
After he came back from his injury he was praised across the board for how different he looks, a complete passer, here are those numbers since his injury
129/187 69%
1614 yards
9 tds
2 ints
Passer rating of 155.8
230.5 ypg
12.5 ypc
8.6 ypa
He's miles and miles and miles better now than when he got here. The notion that he now would have trouble beating Alex Delton out is silly.
Furthermore, the notion that a quarterback coach's role is to simply show linear improvement for each and every quarterback on the roster seems absurd to me. These guys don't start at the same place. Asking a QB coach to get Will Howard to even in the same neighborhood as Blake Shapen is dumb. I'd assume the larger role of the QB coach is with regard to the gameplan and the helping the QBs to understand the playbook.
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 02:34:49 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
I think it would be silly to give a wide receivers coach who hasn't worked in three years the keys to a P5 offense.
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 02:42:21 PM
My concern is with his judgment in that department, not his ethics.
if he can judge klein he can judge mess
He was college roommates with mess, it's significantly different. Not saying that he wouldn't fire his buddy, but he's known mess for 35 years, he's worked with Klein for 3.
Also I know I said this but if mess leaves, he isn't retiring, he's only 55.
I also contend that there is no way that Klieman told the team that mess is coming back, it makes no sense. The need to tell the team he's coming back indicates that he definitely shouldn't be coming back and telling the team as such would just make whatever reason he needs to tell them, even worse.
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
I think it would be silly to give a wide receivers coach who hasn't worked in three years the keys to a P5 offense.
I don’t think making him the WR coach is exactly handing him the keys
Post by: stunted on November 29, 2021, 03:05:35 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 03:14:55 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
I think it would be silly to give a wide receivers coach who hasn't worked in three years the keys to a P5 offense.
I don’t think making him the WR coach is exactly handing him the keys
Ah, I thought y'all were talking about the OC. Is he accomplished enough as a recruiter to be excited to hire a 51 year old WR coach who hasn't worked in 3 years?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on November 29, 2021, 03:16:36 PM
if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
Post by: stunted on November 29, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
FAMILY
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 03:21:08 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
I think it would be silly to give a wide receivers coach who hasn't worked in three years the keys to a P5 offense.
I don’t think making him the WR coach is exactly handing him the keys
Ah, I thought y'all were talking about the OC. Is he accomplished enough as a recruiter to be excited to hire a 51 year old WR coach who hasn't worked in 3 years?
I think he worked in some capacity at Texas in 2019. Would think his Texas HS recruiting ties are still decent as well.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 03:22:44 PM
if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
gene fired the most legendary coach in KSU history
Post by: Shooter Jones on November 29, 2021, 03:24:47 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
A couple, yeah.
(https://www.cleveland.com/resizer/TqzoqcsAJjRN_MhByohgAgaPipA=/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/4YHBYNE2NZCLFIOVVKRLDYN2ZI.JPG)
(https://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/styles/904x490/public/c/2015/05/53907_h.png)
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 03:29:38 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
I think it would be silly to give a wide receivers coach who hasn't worked in three years the keys to a P5 offense.
I don’t think making him the WR coach is exactly handing him the keys
Ah, I thought y'all were talking about the OC. Is he accomplished enough as a recruiter to be excited to hire a 51 year old WR coach who hasn't worked in 3 years?
I think he worked in some capacity at Texas in 2019. Would think his Texas HS recruiting ties are still decent as well.
He had that analyst job for like 2 days, KU messing that up became part of the lawsuit.
https://www.hookem.com/2020/04/15/report-kansas-ad-cautioned-texas-hiring-former-football-coach-david-beaty/
https://footballscoop.com/news/david-beaty-jeff-long-kept-me-from-getting-hired-at-texas
Post by: MakeItRain on November 29, 2021, 03:32:22 PM
What would you guys think about David Beaty on this offensive staff.I like it quite a bit because I think he's a decent recruiter
How do you figure? Did he land some big fishes at A&M that I'm unaware of.
A couple, yeah.
(https://www.cleveland.com/resizer/TqzoqcsAJjRN_MhByohgAgaPipA=/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/4YHBYNE2NZCLFIOVVKRLDYN2ZI.JPG)
(https://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/styles/904x490/public/c/2015/05/53907_h.png)
Nice!
Post by: yoga-like_abana on November 29, 2021, 03:34:58 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211129/6ec6d539eab15d3e979fb13370808244.jpg)if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
FAMILY
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: PurpleOil on November 29, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
My worst fear is that this is true and ends up happening. If so, might as well give up on KSU football.
Post by: michigancat on November 29, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
if he doesn't have it in him to fire mess, it's over for him. but ksu embraced the culture of hiring their best buds, so we kind of deserve it.Yep. And Gene doesn't have the stones to tell him Mess has to go
My worst fear is that this is true and ends up happening. If so, might as well give up on KSU football.
if that's all it takes you should just give it up now
Post by: PurpleOil on November 29, 2021, 04:47:21 PM
Post by: DQ12 on November 29, 2021, 10:13:54 PM
I think we could probably upgrade both.
Post by: ELL3 on November 29, 2021, 10:57:57 PM
Post by: chum1 on November 29, 2021, 11:08:12 PM
Quote
Offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Courtney Messingham and running backs coach Kenith Pope have been relieved of their duties, Rhoads announced in a school release Sunday afternoon.
...
The Cyclones quarterbacks were inconsistent throughout much of the year. Quarterback Sam Richardson did not progress as expected during his sophomore season
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/10064660/iowa-state-cyclones-fire-offensive-coordinator-courtney-messingham-running-backs-coach-kenith-pope
Post by: wetwillie on November 29, 2021, 11:23:50 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on November 30, 2021, 12:09:38 AM
Why is a coach who is 19 and 16, with a losing conference record allowed to further let this program go into the dumpster? Oh yes, he was lost 10 of his last 17 games. If Kleeman does not want to fire Courtney then he too should lose his job.
lol, be more dramatic, Jesus Christ.
Post by: wiley on November 30, 2021, 12:12:48 AM
I think we will see Messingham “retire”, Klein take a job at another school, and Ray get fired.Retiring in your mid 50’s sounds amazing.
Post by: catastrophe on November 30, 2021, 09:55:08 AM
Post by: wetwillie on November 30, 2021, 10:43:17 AM
Post by: schreds21 on November 30, 2021, 08:16:34 PM
Post by: wiley on November 30, 2021, 08:36:06 PM
Spending more time with family etc…Opening up a spot for ol Tim Polasek to come in and run the offense?
Post by: muqluk on December 01, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
Don't we need to keep Klein around in some capacity so that we are a lock for his expected progeny?
And now I'm wondering just exactly what the progeny of an M1 Abrams cross bred with a Lamborghini Countach 'would' look like...
Post by: PurpleOil on December 01, 2021, 11:12:37 AM
Don't we need to keep Klein around in some capacity so that we are a lock for his expected progeny?
And now I'm wondering just exactly what the progeny of an M1 Abrams cross bred with a Lamborghini Countach 'would' look like...
I'm betting it looks like the dude in the Twisted Metal video game that had wheels for arms.
(https://i.ibb.co/85HKQ4G/dbfws1g-91aa2db3-e9c1-487a-8b40-03277211ffe5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C7f1Ss4)
Post by: wetwillie on December 01, 2021, 11:45:23 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 11:56:26 AM
Probably should start getting familiar with Tim Polasek as future OC. I think the Wells ship has sailed.
I don't think Wells was a clear upgrade but Tim Polasek definitely isn't a clear upgrade
Post by: wiley on December 01, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
Probably should start getting familiar with Tim Polasek as future OC. I think the Wells ship has sailed.Dont do this to me
Post by: wetwillie on December 01, 2021, 11:58:28 AM
Probably should start getting familiar with Tim Polasek as future OC. I think the Wells ship has sailed.
I don't think Wells was a clear upgrade but Tim Polasek definitely isn't a clear upgrade
Won’t get an argument out of me on that one, not a name that gets me excited.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 01, 2021, 12:02:18 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 01, 2021, 12:03:11 PM
I'd be particularly concerned if we fire the initial NDSU OC to hire a new NDSU coach. I would think the Gene/CK would avoid that.
Lol
Post by: Dugout DickStone on December 01, 2021, 12:17:56 PM
I'd be particularly concerned if we fire the initial NDSU OC to hire a new NDSU coach. I would think the Gene/CK would avoid that.
Lol
pffffft. The mole is going to hand out KSU money to his loser friends as long as he is here.
Post by: stunted on December 01, 2021, 02:44:06 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 01, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
He’s not going to do it is he? Just reading that they were not only just guys that happened to be on the same staff at NDSU, but they were even little league teammates :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
They will let him retire with some kind of dignity i think. He won’t be on the staff next year though.
Post by: outofstate on December 01, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
Post by: bucket on December 01, 2021, 03:08:43 PM
Eagle has an article about assistant contracts expiring in February.
That was pretty much the extent of the article. All coaches, except Kli and the strength and conditioning coach, have their contracts run out in February.
Post by: wiley on December 01, 2021, 03:19:13 PM
More surprising (although it shouldn’t be), it’s Messingham at 600k+, Connor Riley 400k+, then everyone else essentially in the 300k range.Eagle has an article about assistant contracts expiring in February.
That was pretty much the extent of the article. All coaches, except Kli and the strength and conditioning coach, have their contracts run out in February.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on December 01, 2021, 03:23:57 PM
Post by: ChiComCat on December 01, 2021, 03:32:40 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?
There are too many changes/staffs taking shape that if we don't do it soon, we're going to likely be stuck with someone just as bad.
Post by: outofstate on December 01, 2021, 03:38:04 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?I'm guessing CK is deleting the reminder to renew Mess' contract in February or at least turning off the alert.
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 03:43:17 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?
There are too many changes/staffs taking shape that if we don't do it soon, we're going to likely be stuck with someone just as bad.
I mean, I don't think Mess is as bad as everyone thinks, but we hired Hazelton after signing day.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on December 01, 2021, 03:44:09 PM
Post by: ChiComCat on December 01, 2021, 03:59:00 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?
There are too many changes/staffs taking shape that if we don't do it soon, we're going to likely be stuck with someone just as bad.
I mean, I don't think Mess is as bad as everyone thinks, but we hired Hazelton after signing day.
I was on the fence but the last two games pushed me towards wanting him gone. To come up empty in the second half against UT with the field position we had is unforgivable.
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 04:10:21 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?
There are too many changes/staffs taking shape that if we don't do it soon, we're going to likely be stuck with someone just as bad.
I mean, I don't think Mess is as bad as everyone thinks, but we hired Hazelton after signing day.
I was on the fence but the last two games pushed me towards wanting him gone. To come up empty in the second half against UT with the field position we had is unforgivable.
I'll forgive it based on the overall body of work. I'd also be OK with replacing him, but people are acting like Klieman's career would be destroyed if Mess comes back, which I think is just a tad extreme.
Post by: PurpleOil on December 01, 2021, 04:13:54 PM
If he's not gone by now do we assume he won't be gone? Or wait until bowl game or what?
There are too many changes/staffs taking shape that if we don't do it soon, we're going to likely be stuck with someone just as bad.
I mean, I don't think Mess is as bad as everyone thinks, but we hired Hazelton after signing day.
I was on the fence but the last two games pushed me towards wanting him gone. To come up empty in the second half against UT with the field position we had is unforgivable.
I'll forgive it based on the overall body of work. I'd also be OK with replacing him, but people are acting like Klieman's career would be destroyed if Mess comes back, which I think is just a tad extreme.
I don't. Messingham is a proven loser. Keeping proven losers on your coaching staff means you're a loser as well.
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 04:31:51 PM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Post by: muqluk on December 01, 2021, 04:58:04 PM
Don't we need to keep Klein around in some capacity so that we are a lock for his expected progeny?
And now I'm wondering just exactly what the progeny of an M1 Abrams cross bred with a Lamborghini Countach 'would' look like...
I'm betting it looks like the dude in the Twisted Metal video game that had wheels for arms.
(https://i.ibb.co/85HKQ4G/dbfws1g-91aa2db3-e9c1-487a-8b40-03277211ffe5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C7f1Ss4)
I’ll accept that
Post by: stunted on December 01, 2021, 06:01:29 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 06:12:34 PM
One thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
Post by: wetwillie on December 01, 2021, 06:24:32 PM
One thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 06:28:25 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
Post by: Spracne on December 01, 2021, 06:31:12 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
The Deuce Effect. Imagine if you had a decent to good QB.
Post by: wetwillie on December 01, 2021, 06:32:25 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
if sky remains even halfway viable for Texas, we win by two scores and Mess keeps his job. It's a high stakes job so its hard to feel too bad for Mess but his overall body of work wasn't that bad.
Post by: stunted on December 01, 2021, 06:37:28 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
yea maybe i'm just in a BID mode.
i guess it's logical to not know wtf to do when you got will howard leading the way. but somebody has got to figure out the qb situation god damnit!
Post by: KCFDcat on December 01, 2021, 07:01:55 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
if sky remains even halfway viable for Texas, we win by two scores and Mess keeps his job. It's a high stakes job so its hard to feel too bad for Mess but his overall body of work wasn't that bad.
True, but if Howard is the qb of the future then we need an OC that knows how to run an offense around him. Mess has shown zero ability to make a game plan around Howard’s skill set.
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 07:04:01 PM
He's been the KSU OC for 35 games. The outcome of the Texas game with Will Howard at quarterback should not be the deciding factor.Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
if sky remains even halfway viable for Texas, we win by two scores and Mess keeps his job. It's a high stakes job so its hard to feel too bad for Mess but his overall body of work wasn't that bad.
Post by: michigancat on December 01, 2021, 07:07:20 PM
Well, Howard's a fumble prone running QB who can't pass worth a crap. Not sure there's a great way to scheme around that, even though he had a great long run against Texas.Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
if sky remains even halfway viable for Texas, we win by two scores and Mess keeps his job. It's a high stakes job so its hard to feel too bad for Mess but his overall body of work wasn't that bad.
True, but if Howard is the qb of the future then we need an OC that knows how to run an offense around him. Mess has shown zero ability to make a game plan around Howard’s skill set.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 01, 2021, 08:15:50 PM
Defense was really good! Offense was fifth in the same metric? Not too bad considering who got a ton of snaps at QBOne thing for sure is the offense is not over performing their talent level while the defense is.
Is that really for sure?
pace adjusted defensive stats had us as the second best defense this year in the big 12
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play (https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/opponent-points-per-play)
if sky remains even halfway viable for Texas, we win by two scores and Mess keeps his job. It's a high stakes job so its hard to feel too bad for Mess but his overall body of work wasn't that bad.
I'm not so sure about that. That game really needed us to run the ball roughly a million times. I'm furious about those three play calls at the end of the game, I'm more angry that we didn't run nearly as much as we should have. I thought playing Will should have been an advantage but we didn't do that. I can't imagine how many passes he would have had Skylar throwing. I think he completely bottles the game plan, even worse, with Skylar.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 01, 2021, 08:25:09 PM
He’s not going to do it is he? Just reading that they were not only just guys that happened to be on the same staff at NDSU, but they were even little league teammates :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
They will let him retire with some kind of dignity i think. He won’t be on the staff next year though.
He was out recruiting yesterday, he's coming back.
https://twitter.com/PHSPantherFB/status/1465821933296041989
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 01, 2021, 09:05:59 PM
Post by: PurpleOil on December 02, 2021, 08:45:02 AM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Post by: ChiComCat on December 02, 2021, 08:47:39 AM
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Of course we improve by replacing him with a better coordinator. The argument is that it's not a given that we get a better coordinator
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2021, 08:51:39 AM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 02, 2021, 09:03:26 AM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
If that's the case then we should've given him the ball more against Baylor when he was averaging 10+ yards a touch
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2021, 09:06:32 AM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
If that's the case then we should've given him the ball more against Baylor when he was averaging 10+ yards a touch
yeah probably
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2021, 09:09:38 AM
I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
If that's the case then we should've given him the ball more against Baylor when he was averaging 10+ yards a touch
That was the problem the last two games and I'll say it again, it's my issue with Mess. He either isn't smart enough to see what works or he's constantly over thinking himself. Maybe when Klieman said he's going to get involved in the game planning that he means exactly this. He's seeing that we aren't using our best player enough when everything else doesn't seem to be working.
Post by: yoga-like_abana on December 02, 2021, 09:14:43 AM
We also have a "pitch count" for deuce I'm sure.I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
If that's the case then we should've given him the ball more against Baylor when he was averaging 10+ yards a touch
That was the problem the last two games and I'll say it again, it's my issue with Mess. He either isn't smart enough to see what works or he's constantly over thinking himself. Maybe when Klieman said he's going to get involved in the game planning that he means exactly this. He's seeing that we aren't using our best player enough when everything else doesn't seem to be working.
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2021, 09:17:25 AM
We also have a "pitch count" for deuce I'm sure.I want CK to do so well that a school throws stupid money at him to try and poach him. Do you think anyone's going to try and steal a marginally better than .500 coach who keeps his besties on his staff with him wherever he goes?
I think it's pretty naive to think not replacing the OC is all that's preventing CK from achieving significantly more than he is now.
Let's ask ourselves this question a different way. We had a defense that was good enough to win the conference this year. There were only 3 teams able to score more than 30 points on us all year, and all 3 of those teams spent time in the top 10 rankings. Most opponents struggled just to make it to 20, including current #9 Baylor. Even a marginally above average offense in the Big XII should be able to score 4 touchdowns and a field goal. Instead, in 12 games, we limped along and constantly struggled to score points in the 2nd half of games despite having a pretty decent 6th year QB and arguably one of the better RBs in program history. Messingham has had questionable play calling follow him his entire career, so the issues are not just isolated to our program, and this season it was on full display in several of our loses.
I don't think our offensive talent was very good outside of Deuce.
If that's the case then we should've given him the ball more against Baylor when he was averaging 10+ yards a touch
That was the problem the last two games and I'll say it again, it's my issue with Mess. He either isn't smart enough to see what works or he's constantly over thinking himself. Maybe when Klieman said he's going to get involved in the game planning that he means exactly this. He's seeing that we aren't using our best player enough when everything else doesn't seem to be working.
which is a good idea IMO. I don't think he was really underused at Texas but probably was against Baylor.
Post by: Cire on December 02, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
I bet if you look at carson wentz easton stick offense, they are probably average/below average pace but that's just spitballing.
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2021, 09:37:05 AM
Quote
Despite Vaughn's diminutive stature -- he's 5-foot-6, 173 pounds -- Klieman said recently that he might give the running back as many as 25 touches a game this season.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/stanford-can-expect-big-doses-of-deuce-vaughn-against-kansas-st/
Post by: PurpleOil on December 02, 2021, 11:52:42 AM
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Of course we improve by replacing him with a better coordinator. The argument is that it's not a given that we get a better coordinator
This is the type of thinking you employ when you've got a Pelini or Gundy winning 10 games a year and you're questioning whether you should push for a coaching change.
It's not what you worry about when you're limping into a 7-5 regular season and needing to inject life and energy into your program.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 02, 2021, 02:32:17 PM
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Of course we improve by replacing him with a better coordinator. The argument is that it's not a given that we get a better coordinator
This is the type of thinking you employ when you've got a Pelini or Gundy winning 10 games a year and you're questioning whether you should push for a coaching change.
It's not what you worry about when you're limping into a 7-5 regular season and needing to inject life and energy into your program.
The way you phrased your question was that a better coordinator was a given. I'm all for making a change but there is still risk worth acknowledging.
Post by: stunted on December 02, 2021, 02:42:46 PM
Post by: PurpleOil on December 02, 2021, 03:28:15 PM
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Of course we improve by replacing him with a better coordinator. The argument is that it's not a given that we get a better coordinator
This is the type of thinking you employ when you've got a Pelini or Gundy winning 10 games a year and you're questioning whether you should push for a coaching change.
It's not what you worry about when you're limping into a 7-5 regular season and needing to inject life and energy into your program.
The way you phrased your question was that a better coordinator was a given. I'm all for making a change but there is still risk worth acknowledging.
Did you watch the same Texas game the rest of us did? How would a coordinator have called a worse game?
Yes, there is certainly a risk there that things could somehow get even worse, but I think that risk is outweighed by getting rid of the aggravating play calling and frustration of the players/transfers that will be caused by keeping the mess that is Mess.
Post by: michigancat on December 02, 2021, 03:31:24 PM
What is the case for keeping him? How would we NOT improve by replacing him with a better coordinator?
Of course we improve by replacing him with a better coordinator. The argument is that it's not a given that we get a better coordinator
This is the type of thinking you employ when you've got a Pelini or Gundy winning 10 games a year and you're questioning whether you should push for a coaching change.
It's not what you worry about when you're limping into a 7-5 regular season and needing to inject life and energy into your program.
The way you phrased your question was that a better coordinator was a given. I'm all for making a change but there is still risk worth acknowledging.
Did you watch the same Texas game the rest of us did? How would a coordinator have called a worse game?
Could have ran Will more and lost fumbles. Could have given Deuce too many carries and got him hurt. could have had an offensive penalty. Could have not set up Will's long run. Like there's a billion scenarios that could have gone worse. :dunno:
Post by: muqluk on December 02, 2021, 04:02:02 PM
Post by: ChiComCat on December 02, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
I can say all of that and know that he was actually around the middle of the pack in the B12 in most advanced stats. He isn't the worst OC over the course of a season but he's pretty close a couple of times a year. As I've said, I'm all for making a change and we should do it sooner than later before some of the newer staffs start filling roles.
Post by: tdaver on December 02, 2021, 05:25:05 PM
A lot of P5 OCs got crap canned today.
If in fact Klieman is targeting Wells, we'll probably need to wait for the carousel to slow down to see if we can get him. Wells will almost certainly try to get a G5 job.
Yea this is not ideal environment for the Wells to KSU contingent.
I'm confused as to why Steve Addazio hasn't been fired yet, probably coming and there's going to be a lot of G5 openings.
His buyout drops $2MM (from 5 to 3) on Thursday
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1466454450642501633?s=20
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2021, 06:07:09 PM
sounds like the pitch count has been around 25 touches/gameQuoteDespite Vaughn's diminutive stature -- he's 5-foot-6, 173 pounds -- Klieman said recently that he might give the running back as many as 25 touches a game this season.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/stanford-can-expect-big-doses-of-deuce-vaughn-against-kansas-st/
Then he said later in the year, postgame after Nevada, if memory serves me right, that Deuce doesn't have a cap on his carries.
Capping his carries is dumb unless they have noticed a pattern of his production waning after a certain number of carries, which it isn't.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2021, 06:11:32 PM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
Chi & Rusty, or anyone else for that matter, aren't defending him, they're just saying that we could do worse, which is a statistical fact. No one is advocating for keeping that dude, everyone knows it could also be significantly better.
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 02, 2021, 06:37:59 PM
Post by: Trim on December 02, 2021, 09:08:29 PM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 02, 2021, 09:35:47 PM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
You miss the the last 9 pages of him being best buds with Kleigoober? He wasn't hired for his history of success....
Post by: MakeItRain on December 02, 2021, 10:41:01 PM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
You miss the the last 9 pages of him being best buds with Kleigoober? He wasn't hired for his history of success....
I mean he had back to back national championships as an offensive coordinator immediately before taking the job, but I'm sure you knew that.
Post by: DQ12 on December 02, 2021, 10:48:13 PM
CLEAN THE MESS
Post by: stunted on December 02, 2021, 10:54:01 PM
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 06:06:00 AM
He’s here because his buddy threw him a bone at North Dakota state
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 06:06:29 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: nicname on December 03, 2021, 07:02:20 AM
His 30+ year resume is incredibly underwhelming
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What if I told you that our offense this season was the best he's ever had at the FBS level?
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 07:20:31 AM
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 07:55:48 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 08:00:08 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
Is the offense really THAT unique or is it just designed to limit turnovers and go at a slow pace? I'd probably look at low TO rate offenses, pace is easy to control. I might do that later today.
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 08:16:35 AM
This was almost exactly a year ago!
https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2020/12/02/kansas-state-may-have-itself-an-offensive-coordinator-problem/
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 08:19:43 AM
1991-92 St. Ambrose [Iowa] (Offensive Coordinator/QB)
1993-94 Iowa Lakes CC (Offensive Coordinator/QB)
1995-96 Truman State (Running Backs/Tight Ends)
1997-98 Truman State (Offensive Coordinator)
1999 Missouri State (Wide Receivers/Tight Ends)
2000-02 Missouri State (Offensive Coordinator)
2003-04 Upper Iowa (Head Coach)
2005-06 Southern Miss (Wide Receivers)
2007 Southern Miss (Running Backs)
2008 Missouri State (Special Teams Coordinator/WR)
2009-10 Iowa State (Tight Ends)
2011 Iowa State (Wide Receivers)
2012-13 Iowa State (Offensive Coordinator/QB)
2014-15 Indiana (Offensive/Special Teams Quality Control)
2016 Montana State (Offensive Coordinator/QB)
2017-18 North Dakota State (Offensive Coordinator/RB)
2019-20 Kansas State (Offensive Coordinator/TE/FB)
2021 Kansas State (Offensive Coordinator/WR)
The ONLY reason he got hired at NDS was because of his friendship.
He was a failed coach
Post by: muqluk on December 03, 2021, 08:28:54 AM
Otherwise he wouldnt have been promoted so many times only to end in short tenures as OC
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 08:49:56 AM
Truman State and missouri state were both garbage when he was there.
ISU/Rhoades enough said
Indiana he was Stanton Weber
Montana state won like 3 games
Post by: yoga-like_abana on December 03, 2021, 09:01:53 AM
Seems like he must be a reasonably good positional coach - just terrible OCThink it's more because he's nice and well liked by his peers
Otherwise he wouldnt have been promoted so many times only to end in short tenures as OC
Post by: Maccat on December 03, 2021, 09:34:53 AM
Seems like he must be a reasonably good positional coach - just terrible OCThink it's more because he's nice and well liked by his peers
Otherwise he wouldnt have been promoted so many times only to end in short tenures as OC
And hated by the fans. During the ISU game sat by one of those hayseeds and he was laughing at us that we wouldn't fire Mess.
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 09:51:29 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
you know what's also really tough is that Mess led a top 40 offense this year according to most advanced stats. Most teams ahead are P5, and we're not gonna poach a sitting P5 OC unless they are foolishly undervalued..
Like, on the FEI offensive ratings, Fresno's offense was ranked #65 and (121st in turnovers so Grubb would definitely be a no-go).
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overalloff/2020
This guy would be interesting, low turnovers, runs a run-heavy offense, coached in west texas and at Eastern Illinois:
https://kentstatesports.com/staff-directory/andrew-sowder/309
But I'd probably go harder after this guy - low turnovers the last two seasons, just below KSU in efficiency this year (seems like he will be in demand):
https://goutsa.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/barry-lunney-jr-/1188
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 09:53:23 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 09:57:54 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
you know what's also really tough is that Mess led a top 40 offense this year according to most advanced stats. Most teams ahead are P5, and we're not gonna poach a sitting P5 OC unless they are foolishly undervalued..
Like, on the FEI offensive ratings, Fresno's offense was ranked #65 and (121st in turnovers so Grubb would definitely be a no-go).
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overalloff/2020
looking at this I would definitely give Mike Bobo a call
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 10:03:19 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
you know what's also really tough is that Mess led a top 40 offense this year according to most advanced stats. Most teams ahead are P5, and we're not gonna poach a sitting P5 OC unless they are foolishly undervalued..
Like, on the FEI offensive ratings, Fresno's offense was ranked #65 and (121st in turnovers so Grubb would definitely be a no-go).
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overalloff/2020
looking at this I would definitely give Mike Bobo a call
I’d kill a drifter for Mike Bobo
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 10:06:37 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
you know what's also really tough is that Mess led a top 40 offense this year according to most advanced stats. Most teams ahead are P5, and we're not gonna poach a sitting P5 OC unless they are foolishly undervalued..
Like, on the FEI offensive ratings, Fresno's offense was ranked #65 and (121st in turnovers so Grubb would definitely be a no-go).
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overalloff/2020
looking at this I would definitely give Mike Bobo a call
I’d kill a drifter for Mike Bobo
I mean what's his play? be a QC coach for Saban? Position coach for an SEC school? I can't imagine he'd get an OC job in the SEC. Seems like he'd be attainable. :dunno:
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 10:13:09 AM
It’s an exercise in futility because Klieman appears dead set on running this specific offense and basically no one else runs it. TCU went and got Garrett Riley, you’d think Scheelhase would be a candidate if we let him run what he wanted to. You start looking at G5 OC’s like Ryan Grubb or QB coach like Jason Beck at Virginia
you know what's also really tough is that Mess led a top 40 offense this year according to most advanced stats. Most teams ahead are P5, and we're not gonna poach a sitting P5 OC unless they are foolishly undervalued..
Like, on the FEI offensive ratings, Fresno's offense was ranked #65 and (121st in turnovers so Grubb would definitely be a no-go).
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fei/overalloff/2020
looking at this I would definitely give Mike Bobo a call
I’d kill a drifter for Mike Bobo
I mean what's his play? be a QC coach for Saban? Position coach for an SEC school? I can't imagine he'd get an OC job in the SEC. Seems like he'd be attainable. :dunno:
He had a 3 year contract for $1.3 million/year. If I were him I'd go do QC for Saban or Kirby until the firing stink wears off. KSU would barely pay him half that.
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 03, 2021, 10:51:58 AM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
You miss the the last 9 pages of him being best buds with Kleigoober? He wasn't hired for his history of success....
I mean he had back to back national championships as an offensive coordinator immediately before taking the job, but I'm sure you knew that.
Lol. I suppose you knew they also won 4 national championships in the 5 years before he got there in addition to the one immediately thereafter. Much like any OC/DC at Alabama, you're going to be successful regardless of how bad you suck as an individual.
Post by: Trim on December 03, 2021, 10:57:43 AM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
You miss the the last 9 pages of him being best buds with Kleigoober? He wasn't hired for his history of success....
Then the problem isn’t messingham.
Post by: pissclams on December 03, 2021, 11:23:37 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 03, 2021, 11:35:39 AM
Puzzling how, after looking at the last ~10-15 years of Messingham’s resume - and the stats for those teams during his tenures, anyone would bother defending him.
If true, more puzzling would be that he got hired.
You miss the the last 9 pages of him being best buds with Kleigoober? He wasn't hired for his history of success....
I mean he had back to back national championships as an offensive coordinator immediately before taking the job, but I'm sure you knew that.
Lol. I suppose you knew they also won 4 national championships in the 5 years before he got there in addition to the one immediately thereafter. Much like any OC/DC at Alabama, you're going to be successful regardless of how bad you suck as an individual.
Alabama fans will very much not agree with this. Bill O'Brien trends on Twitter every Saturday and it's not because he's being praised. FWIW, they didn't love Lane either.
Post by: Dugout DickStone on December 03, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Mediocrity is something you can attain while also getting rich with your bros
Post by: bucket on December 03, 2021, 03:22:44 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 03:27:05 PM
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 03:28:21 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: DaBigTrain on December 03, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
Post by: muqluk on December 03, 2021, 03:29:07 PM
https://twitter.com/KellisRobinett/status/1466880100775911433:billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance: :billdance:
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 03:29:29 PM
I hope ksu ups coordinator pay and we're able to land a good oc and pay klanderman more than 325k/yr
Post by: CHONGS on December 03, 2021, 03:29:52 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 03:31:43 PM
Let's go get a hungry young person.Or two!!!
Post by: IPA4Me on December 03, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 03:33:13 PM
Post by: wiley on December 03, 2021, 03:34:30 PM
Klein is interim OC for bowl game….Oh man, so this is like as of now.
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 03:36:54 PM
Klieman was legit pissed in the Texas post game presser. Not hard to see this happening.That loss cost Klieman an automatic extension. People thought he would accept that because Mess was his bud lol
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 03:37:08 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 03:38:45 PM
Klieman was legit pissed in the Texas post game presser. Not hard to see this happening.That loss cost Klieman an automatic extension. People thought he would accept that because Mess was his bud lol
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Yea it was like 5 million guaranteed or something with the buyout reset and extra year of the contract. That’s a big fuckup.
Post by: IPA4Me on December 03, 2021, 03:39:59 PM
There's not a single person I wouldn't fire over that much money. DON'T MESS WITH MY INCOME!Klieman was legit pissed in the Texas post game presser. Not hard to see this happening.That loss cost Klieman an automatic extension. People thought he would accept that because Mess was his bud lol
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Yea it was like 5 million guaranteed or something with the buyout reset and extra year of the contract. That’s a big fuckup.
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 03:40:08 PM
Klein is interim OC for bowl game….
Howard is gonna be so sketti brained he won't know what hit him
Post by: stunted on December 03, 2021, 03:40:43 PM
Post by: Stupid Fitz on December 03, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Respect for Kleiman just went up 10000%
If he hires another one of his shitty pals, it will make it worse though. I'm hoping he learned his lesson. Hire a young "up and comer" that will at least try to recruit. If he hires that guy from Wyoming, I'm going to start posting in the fire Kleinman thread again.
Post by: star seed 7 on December 03, 2021, 03:49:47 PM
Post by: yoga-like_abana on December 03, 2021, 03:52:10 PM
Post by: Spracne on December 03, 2021, 03:53:21 PM
Post by: Hurricane Cat on December 03, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Let's go get a hungry young person.
Yeah, 'make sure that he's hungry, and make sure he's alone'
Post by: CHONGS on December 03, 2021, 03:59:20 PM
Post by: Winters on December 03, 2021, 04:01:23 PM
Post by: catastrophe on December 03, 2021, 04:03:21 PM
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 03, 2021, 04:07:18 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
Agreed.
Post by: ChiComCat on December 03, 2021, 04:08:53 PM
Didn't someone mention it became a whole lot cheaper to fire Mess as of yesterday? This makes sense.
I think his contract may have just been up. I don't believe it was a money thing but lets him leave without being "fired"
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 04:09:08 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
if he hires someone w an innovative offense from outside the ndsu tree I will be ecstatic. If he hires Polasek or someone like him i=I'll probably be more disengaged than if messingham were kept on.
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 03, 2021, 04:11:34 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 04:17:58 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
if he hires someone w an innovative offense from outside the ndsu tree I will be ecstatic. If he hires Polasek or someone like him i=I'll probably be more disengaged than if messingham were kept on.
To be fair this was how we got Hazelton
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 04:18:19 PM
I think we either need to start recruiting about 10x better than we are now or we need to keep using a slow offense that shortens the game.
Yep
Post by: catastrophe on December 03, 2021, 04:21:41 PM
I think we either need to start recruiting about 10x better than we are now or we need to keep using a slow offense that shortens the game.Slow paced offense doesn’t bother me. 2011-12 were both super fun years to watch. A big part of that is because if we ever needed a yard on third or fourth down we did exactly what everyone thought we were gonna do, with a damn near 100% success rate.
Post by: muqluk on December 03, 2021, 04:22:46 PM
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 04:22:51 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
if he hires someone w an innovative offense from outside the ndsu tree I will be ecstatic. If he hires Polasek or someone like him i=I'll probably be more disengaged than if messingham were kept on.
To be fair this was how we got Hazelton
this is a good point.
Post by: catastrophe on December 03, 2021, 04:24:01 PM
https://twitter.com/GPCwallace/status/1466888897946923009A good point to keep in mind for the folks suggesting Mess’s playcalling was limited by his weapons.
Post by: KCFDcat on December 03, 2021, 04:25:30 PM
I think we either need to start recruiting about 10x better than we are now or we need to keep using a slow offense that shortens the game.Slow paced offense doesn’t bother me. 2011-12 were both super fun years to watch. A big part of that is because if we ever needed a yard on third or fourth down we did exactly what everyone thought we were gonna do, with a damn near 100% success rate.
I think you can be innovative while still taking ball control/pace into mind. I'm not advocating for a no huddle mike leach offense, just something that makes DCs guess every once in awhile. Never felt like we had any sort of identity on offense, seemed like a guy that opened a playbook and blindly pointed to a play.
Post by: PurpleOil on December 03, 2021, 04:28:24 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
This is how I'm feeling as well. :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:
Post by: Shooter Jones on December 03, 2021, 04:39:04 PM
Awesome news. Obviously just as interested in who we get but this gives me a lot of hope for KSUFB.
if he hires someone w an innovative offense from outside the ndsu tree I will be ecstatic. If he hires Polasek or someone like him i=I'll probably be more disengaged than if messingham were kept on.
To be fair this was how we got Hazelton
this is a good point.
The same Hazelton that currently has one of/if not the worst defense in all of D1 football? Like Mess was most likely close to the worst offense at ISU with way less talent.
(I had this typed and wanted to look. It's just dead last in passing defense, 117th in total D for Hazelton)
Either way, not every fit is right. I guess we just need to see where this hiring process goes.
Post by: ben ji on December 03, 2021, 04:44:38 PM
Will Howard better write down all his favorite childhood memories before the bowl game.Klein is interim OC for bowl game….
Howard is gonna be so sketti brained he won't know what hit him
Post by: Winters on December 03, 2021, 05:46:27 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 06:42:16 PM
Just watched a little of UTSA and yeah that OC would be a great fit
Yea I’d take him in a heartbeat. I’m trying to figure out why he went from San Jose St OC/QB coach to a high school football coach. He must have really wanted to move back home to Arkansas.
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Just watched a little of UTSA and yeah that OC would be a great fit
Yea I’d take him in a heartbeat. I’m trying to figure out why he went from San Jose St OC/QB coach to a high school football coach. He must have really wanted to move back home to Arkansas.
well SJSU went 5-17 while he was OC (actually co-OC) and the coach was fired at 2004. Still, he wasn't even head coach in Arkansas! he was a high school offensive coordinator!
Post by: wetwillie on December 03, 2021, 06:58:32 PM
Just watched a little of UTSA and yeah that OC would be a great fit
Yea I’d take him in a heartbeat. I’m trying to figure out why he went from San Jose St OC/QB coach to a high school football coach. He must have really wanted to move back home to Arkansas.
well SJSU went 5-17 while he was OC (actually co-OC) and the coach was fired at 2004. Still, he wasn't even head coach in Arkansas! he was a high school offensive coordinator!
Lol looks like his dad was the HC at Bentonville High. I wonder if he is waiting for Briles to get a HC job at vacate that Arkansas OC job.
Post by: jtksu on December 03, 2021, 06:58:43 PM
Will Howard better write down all his favorite childhood memories before the bowl game.Klein is interim OC for bowl game….
Howard is gonna be so sketti brained he won't know what hit him
:surprised:
Post by: michigancat on December 03, 2021, 07:04:07 PM
Just watched a little of UTSA and yeah that OC would be a great fit
Yea I’d take him in a heartbeat. I’m trying to figure out why he went from San Jose St OC/QB coach to a high school football coach. He must have really wanted to move back home to Arkansas.
well SJSU went 5-17 while he was OC (actually co-OC) and the coach was fired at 2004. Still, he wasn't even head coach in Arkansas! he was a high school offensive coordinator!
Lol looks like his dad was the HC at Bentonville High. I wonder if he is waiting for Briles to get a HC job at vacate that Arkansas OC job.
haha.
I mean Pittman could have kept him as TE coach but he went with this guy instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Cooper_(American_football)
And then Pittman fired that guy and hired another Arkansas alumnus: https://arkansasrazorbacks.com/coache/dowell-loggains/
Post by: Cire on December 03, 2021, 08:27:02 PM
Maybe we could hire him again
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: nicname on December 03, 2021, 08:27:14 PM
Klein is interim OC for bowl game….
Howard is gonna be so sketti brained he won't know what hit him
He's going to run 17 times for 127 yards, 1 Td and a scraped elbow.
Post by: cfbandyman on December 03, 2021, 11:52:53 PM
Will Howard better write down all his favorite childhood memories before the bowl game.Klein is interim OC for bowl game….
Howard is gonna be so sketti brained he won't know what hit him
Man, I have been laughing far, far too much at that. Ashamed how much honestly.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 03, 2021, 11:53:27 PM
Post by: jtksu on December 04, 2021, 12:54:47 AM
Andy Ludwig is back at Utah
Maybe we could hire him again
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had totally forgotten that person even existed.
Post by: BW on December 04, 2021, 12:14:35 PM
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 12:21:00 PM
https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19)
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Holy crap, he isn't even 30 yet. That's a very very very good fcs program. Good for him.
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 12:28:20 PM
https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19)
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Holy crap, he isn't even 30 yet. That's a very very very good fcs program. Good for him.
Nepotism is a hell of a career boost
Post by: Kid In the Hall on December 04, 2021, 12:50:32 PM
Post by: Cire on December 04, 2021, 01:02:26 PM
Also if you want to die inside. Will Howard and Blake shapen were ranked the same by 247
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 01:12:31 PM
https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19)
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Holy crap, he isn't even 30 yet. That's a very very very good fcs program. Good for him.
Nepotism is a hell of a career boost
He's only ever been with his dad, playing or coaching, his redshirt year at K-State.
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 01:22:11 PM
Nepotism doesn't start and end with fathers hiring sons. I mean look at that Lane Kiffin story you just shared! That was nepotism!https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19)
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Holy crap, he isn't even 30 yet. That's a very very very good fcs program. Good for him.
Nepotism is a hell of a career boost
He's only ever been with his dad, playing or coaching, his redshirt year at K-State.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 01:46:39 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
https://twitter.com/Marcus_Freeman1/status/1463869607337418756
Post by: Skipper44 on December 04, 2021, 02:37:34 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 02:38:13 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 04, 2021, 02:42:30 PM
Post by: Winters on December 04, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
true catholicsLOL
Post by: sys on December 04, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 03:58:58 PM
should we hire the osu o coord when they fire him?
I don't know if that's a great idea
Post by: Pete on December 04, 2021, 08:56:25 PM
Post by: Winters on December 04, 2021, 09:02:23 PM
Is there any chance that we get someone who was NOT somehow associated with NDSU at some point?Nope :frown:
Post by: KCFDcat on December 04, 2021, 09:06:45 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 04, 2021, 09:09:33 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 09:36:29 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 09:36:46 PM
Is there any chance that we get someone who was NOT somehow associated with NDSU at some point?The last hire Klieman made (S&C coordinator) was completely unconnected to NDSU. So definitely a decent chance.
And remember most people convinced we'll get an NDSU retread were also convinced Klieman would never fire his lifelong friend.
Post by: wetwillie on December 04, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
Post by: Winters on December 04, 2021, 09:38:50 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted:driving:
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 09:51:06 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
Post by: catastrophe on December 04, 2021, 09:56:34 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conductedI’m a little embarrassed I’ve never felt the need to look into this before, but does Kleiman need approval to name the new OC? Or would that only be necessary if their pay was greater than Mess?
I’m just a little intrigued by how some updates make this sound similar to a HC search when I really expected it would be like 99% up to Kleiman (in which case I wouldn’t really expect any interim updates).
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 09:58:28 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conductedI’m a little embarrassed I’ve never felt the need to look into this before, but does Kleiman need approval to name the new OC? Or would that only be necessary if their pay was greater than Mess?
I’m just a little intrigued by how some updates make this sound similar to a HC search when I really expected it would be like 99% up to Kleiman (in which case I wouldn’t really expect any interim updates).
All coaching hires have to be approved by Gene, but unless it's a huge salary increase, that approval is a rubber stamp once the background check clears.
Post by: Kid In the Hall on December 04, 2021, 10:04:45 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
To be fair, the guy hired Messingham in the first place. And, Ray for that matter. Both of them had been fired from their only Power 5 jobs before being part of the NDSU reclamation project.
But, it would be absolutely insane for Klieman to go back to the NDSU well at this point.
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2021, 10:08:46 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
To be fair, the guy hired Messingham in the first place. And, Ray for that matter. Both of them had been fired from their only Power 5 jobs before being part of the NDSU reclamation project.
yes but after he hired messingham he fired him which makes me think he might be willing to hire someone that isn't as close to Messingham as it gets.
He might hire two more NDSU guys, but I'd be surprised and the idea that it's a given is just so stupid
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2021, 10:31:36 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
To be fair, the guy hired Messingham in the first place. And, Ray for that matter. Both of them had been fired from their only Power 5 jobs before being part of the NDSU reclamation project.
But, it would be absolutely insane for Klieman to go back to the NDSU well at this point.
He was keeping a previously successful staff together, this isn't the case anymore.
Post by: Kid In the Hall on December 05, 2021, 12:49:11 AM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
To be fair, the guy hired Messingham in the first place. And, Ray for that matter. Both of them had been fired from their only Power 5 jobs before being part of the NDSU reclamation project.
But, it would be absolutely insane for Klieman to go back to the NDSU well at this point.
He was keeping a previously successful staff together, this isn't the case anymore.
Klieman had the ammo to have an understanding that Messingham and Ray were not good enough to be quality power 5 level coaches (frankly - either schematically or from a recruiting standpoint - they've both been dogshit in both areas - both before KSU and during their KSU tenures).
To have moved forward with bringing them on board for the sake of continuity is silly (if - and I don't know - that was his reason). If he wanted to throw a bone to his friends, fine, I guess. Messsingham and Ray have been failures at previous coaching stops, so this end result shouldn't be some enormous surprise for anyone.
Post by: wetwillie on December 05, 2021, 07:34:57 AM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
What other hires? He had to replace his initial DC that never made it to campus and did it with a former NDSU guy Scottie Hazelton. When Hazelton left he promoted Klanderman and brought in Stanard(another NDSU guy). The only replacement he has made outside that tree so far is coach Tru, who I think has been awesome for the program.
Post by: KSUfaithful on December 05, 2021, 07:48:39 AM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
To be fair, the guy hired Messingham in the first place. And, Ray for that matter. Both of them had been fired from their only Power 5 jobs before being part of the NDSU reclamation project.
But, it would be absolutely insane for Klieman to go back to the NDSU well at this point.
He was keeping a previously successful staff together, this isn't the case anymore.
Klieman had the ammo to have an understanding that Messingham and Ray were not good enough to be quality power 5 level coaches (frankly - either schematically or from a recruiting standpoint - they've both been dogshit in both areas - both before KSU and during their KSU tenures).
To have moved forward with bringing them on board for the sake of continuity is silly (if - and I don't know - that was his reason). If he wanted to throw a bone to his friends, fine, I guess. Messsingham and Ray have been failures at previous coaching stops, so this end result shouldn't be some enormous surprise for anyone.
This 100%. These hires should really never had been made in the first place. Messingham has been a disaster everywhere he’s been - outside of his recent NDSU experience - where he basically inherited a championship team to work with. Surprisingly he didn’t screw that up. I guess some of the same points can be said for Coach K as well (inheriting a championship team and not falling off)
Post by: wiley on December 05, 2021, 07:57:01 AM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 05, 2021, 01:09:44 PM
Some rumblings of a more robust open search to be conducted
As rusty pointed out, it was always going to be this way. He didn't fire Messingham just to family farm the job. He didn't do that with the others hire he made. People are not giving Klieman the benefit of the doubt because they think he's lazy and dumb like most kso posters are.
What other hires? He had to replace his initial DC that never made it to campus and did it with a former NDSU guy Scottie Hazelton. When Hazelton left he promoted Klanderman and brought in Stanard(another NDSU guy). The only replacement he has made outside that tree so far is coach Tru, who I think has been awesome for the program.
Rusty pointed out tru and I was agreeing with him.
Post by: outofstate on December 17, 2021, 08:43:28 PM
Post by: PandaXpanda on December 17, 2021, 08:50:05 PM
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
Post by: wetwillie on December 17, 2021, 08:57:28 PM
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2021, 09:55:41 PM
https://twitter.com/Wildcats_B12C/status/1471994040593920004That would be really interesting. I love the idea of hiring someone that was at a program that kicked our ass in recruiting, even if they got fired.
Post by: michigancat on December 17, 2021, 09:57:05 PM
Post by: wetwillie on December 17, 2021, 10:30:20 PM
Post by: bucket on December 17, 2021, 10:31:00 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 17, 2021, 10:39:58 PM
https://twitter.com/Wildcats_B12C/status/1471994040593920004
lol, no way.
Post by: MakeItRain on December 17, 2021, 10:46:31 PM
And he looks cool as eff.
https://twitter.com/KCMattKluck/status/1025234711059226624
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/X5h7u8UBaYUVMIa6tAZcdOyPV3g=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/12314903/verduzco.jpg)
Post by: DaBigTrain on December 17, 2021, 10:48:05 PM
Post by: MakeItRain on December 17, 2021, 10:49:25 PM
That there’s a QB whisperer Rusty
Yes, his track record of developing QBs is unparalleled
1977–1986
Soquel HS (CA) (assistant)
1987–1989
Gavilan College (OC/QB/WR)
1990–1991
San Jose State (GA)
1991–1993
De Anza College (assoc. HC / OC / QB / WR)
1994–1995
De Anza College
1996–2000
Rutgers (QB/RC)
2001–2005
Northern Iowa (QB)
2006–2014
Northern Iowa (co-OC/QB)
2015
Missouri State (OC/QB)
2016–2017
UCF (QB)
2018–2021
Nebraska (QB)
Post by: wetwillie on December 17, 2021, 11:14:15 PM
Has Coached with Klieman: check
Spent 4 years with Adrian Martinez: check
He checks all the boxes folks
Post by: slackcat on December 18, 2021, 06:01:28 AM
cigar makes it a yes
Post by: michigancat on December 18, 2021, 06:17:36 AM
Post by: TheHamburglar on December 18, 2021, 06:39:56 AM
Post by: Cire on December 18, 2021, 07:53:58 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Cire on December 18, 2021, 07:55:06 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MakeItRain on December 18, 2021, 09:48:35 AM
Maybe don’t bring in Adrian Martinez, then bring in his position coach that turned him into such an inconsistent passer & turnover machine that it gave me schadenfrued watching him struggle as Nebraska QB.
Exactly
Post by: Dugout DickStone on December 18, 2021, 10:10:39 AM
Maybe don’t bring in Adrian Martinez, then bring in his position coach that turned him into such an inconsistent passer & turnover machine that it gave me schadenfrued watching him struggle as Nebraska QB.
Exactly
Yeah, that band can stay broken up.
Post by: outofstate on December 19, 2021, 09:47:13 PM
Post by: Kat Kid on December 19, 2021, 09:57:02 PM
Post by: muqluk on December 20, 2021, 12:11:58 AM
Bring Andre Home!
But why?
I may be way off here, but he wasn’t really churning out star receivers in his first round here. Am I doing him dirty?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 20, 2021, 12:18:52 AM
Bring Andre Home!
But why?
I may be way off here, but he wasn’t really churning out star receivers in his first round here. Am I doing him dirty?
No. I love Andre and I don't hold any LHC Bill Snyder assistant accountable for recruiting issues, they were definitely operating with a huge handicap. However, if you read that article it says that he's on the outs with Sark because of philosophical differences and recruiting misses. If we wanted to bring in a former player, I'm sure there's some young hungry guys coaching at high schools all throughout the Big 12 region who would love to devote 16 hours a day to wooing high school sophomores and juniors.
Post by: nicname on December 20, 2021, 01:55:27 AM
Post by: meow meow on December 20, 2021, 10:25:35 AM
Post by: michigancat on December 20, 2021, 10:27:04 AM
Post by: ChiComCat on December 20, 2021, 10:38:59 AM
if we hired a WR coach that was just fired everyone would be mad, but when it's a former player/coach under snyder, k-state fans want them to come home! it's so k-state
Meh, fired from an embattled coach at UT deserves an asterisk. Sark is placing blame and he's going to go after the holdovers from the previous regime before he goes after the guys he brought in. I'm not saying we should bring him back, but I think there's plenty of context to his firing. I'm certainly for any good Texas recruiting connections for anyone added to the staff.
Post by: IPA4Me on December 20, 2021, 11:40:36 AM
No one really wants ColemanFormer players wanted him to replace Bill.
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Post by: michigancat on December 20, 2021, 11:46:34 AM
No one really wants ColemanFormer players wanted him to replace Bill.
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
lol
Post by: IPA4Me on December 20, 2021, 12:49:31 PM
No joke. I graduated high school with a former Cat coach. Was laughing my ass off when he told me about it. Big push for Dre to coach. Obviously didn't happen but they were pushing nonetheless.No one really wants ColemanFormer players wanted him to replace Bill. (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji102.png)
Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
lol
Post by: ChiComCat on December 20, 2021, 12:53:39 PM
Post by: KSNimrod on December 20, 2021, 01:37:37 PM
Post by: pissclams on December 20, 2021, 05:58:28 PM
No one really wants Colemanas our WR coach? i’d take him in a minute.
Post by: Purple Derpathy on December 20, 2021, 09:45:45 PM
No one really wants Colemanas our WR coach? i’d take him in a minute.
You mean you haven't been impressed by the WR recruiting or development the past few years?
Post by: michigancat on January 21, 2022, 11:56:46 AM
Nepotism doesn't start and end with fathers hiring sons. I mean look at that Lane Kiffin story you just shared! That was nepotism!https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/FootballScoop/status/1467193677403590662?t=FZ23G65TG5WOOiOOgihrDA&s=19)
Another old friend, if we hurry we can outbid the spiders.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Holy crap, he isn't even 30 yet. That's a very very very good fcs program. Good for him.
Nepotism is a hell of a career boost
He's only ever been with his dad, playing or coaching, his redshirt year at K-State.
speaking of that lane kiffin nepotism story, he hired Charlie Weis, Jr. and Chris Kiffin to his staff this week
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on January 21, 2022, 12:52:34 PM
Post by: 'taterblast on September 27, 2022, 07:36:00 PM
https://fightingillini.com/staff-directory/courtney-messingham/1958