Kansas- more liberal abortion laws than New York

[Pete]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

I don't like the lying and misleading. It does not fit into my belief system.  I have to chalk it up to the political world being comprised almost entirely of complete and utter fools.

Fools? I think just very selfish, sinful people. Many are very, very clever.

[steve dave]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

having grown up around being related to a massive amount of single issue abortion voters I can tell you that they will unabashedly fall back on the "greater good" argument. I have had otherwise normal people tell me that murdering an abortion doctor and bombing abortion clinics is reasonable and just because it "saves lives".

[Pete]

Organized religion loves the “greater good argument.”

[Dugout DickStone]

I wonder if they might start requiring loyalty oaths on this issue since such a huge number voted no

[DQ12]

Bummed out :[

I think you'll be fine

duh

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
I don't really think the ballot was very confusing.  A lot of people think so apparently, so who knows.  It reads pretty straightforward to me.  Saying that people in the Kansas legislature are idiotic wouldn't get much of a protest from me though.
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
I'm only aware of the one text that was apparently sent out on Monday night, which is complete dirty pool and should be condemned.
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
I'm only familiar with the Butker ad, and he didn't come close to making it sound like Yes is for pro choice.  If anything, he probably overstated the opposite (though both sides exaggerated the effect of passing/not passing imo.)
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 
I can't really speak to your experience on reddit.  My experience, at least on the KC subreddit, is that any comment that even approached support for a Yes vote got downvoted into oblivion.

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?
Like I said, I think the text was reprehensible.  Lying doesn't fit within my "belief system" (?).

[Kat Kid]

The joyous celebration of this is disturbing to me.  But I understand I have a starkly different opinion on this issue than most of you.

Interesting. Have you considered if the vote would have gone the other way the same people may have been disappointed or angry and many yes voters would be celebrating?

[Pete]

I accept LOTS of different policies that unfortunately result in death. For example:

- Self defense in threat of a person’s life
- shooting Home intruders
- drone strikes killing enemies and civilians at the same time
- keeping taxes lower by not lining every highway with concrete median barriers and eliminating head on collisions
- abortion

The list goes on. I don’t like it, but I accept it.

[DQ12]

The joyous celebration of this is disturbing to me.  But I understand I have a starkly different opinion on this issue than most of you.

Interesting. Have you considered if the vote would have gone the other way the same people may have been disappointed or angry and many yes voters would be celebrating?

I don't really have any issue at all with people celebrating.  It's a pretty big issue w/r/t personal freedom vs. saving lives.  Either side you're on, there was a lot at stake in the election.

[Pete]

I wonder if they might start requiring loyalty oaths on this issue since such a huge number voted no

Not if it lowers revenue

[steve dave]

it is pretty stunning how badly this thing got its entire ass whipped. I mean, public polling for abortion access is pretty unanimous in its support but, in KANSAS!?

[yoga-like_abana]

Less government involvement should be a good thing.

[CNS]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

I don't like the lying and misleading. It does not fit into my belief system.  I have to chalk it up to the political world being comprised almost entirely of complete and utter fools.

For me, as someone who doesn’t subscribe to the same belief system, this is one reason why I am rejoicing. The lying and misleading is received as what it is. It was, what I took, as an underhanded attempt to make me live your belief system. I will rejoice any loss of any religious group’s, especially one acting in an underhanded and dishonest way, attempt to force religion on those who don’t want it.

[Dugout DickStone]

it is pretty stunning how badly this thing got its entire ass whipped. I mean, public polling for abortion access is pretty unanimous in its support but, in KANSAS!?

I saw the (mostly) final numbers in the gym at lunch and could not believe how loudly the majority of Kansans rejected it.

[Pete]

it is pretty stunning how badly this thing got its entire ass whipped. I mean, public polling for abortion access is pretty unanimous in its support but, in KANSAS!?

Yeah, it’s a giant metaphorical “do not touch” sign for policy makers. Basically the next social security type issue it would seem.

[cfbandyman]

And again, if you want abortions to "go away", provide proper sex ed, advocate for contraception, and support women's choices

This has always been a sticking point for me.  There are ways to affect the number of abortions and right-wing doesn't want to do it.  And they work!!

https://cdphe.colorado.gov/fpp/about-us/colorados-success-long-acting-reversible-contraception-larc

Exactly. Contraception works so damn well to keep things in check.

And I had a pretty long rant about it in the abortion thread, but it ultimately comes down to religious zealots imposing their morality on people. Contraception means you're enabling kids to fornicate, teaching them about sex and contraception means they will on each other 24/7/365 with the seks to them. It's just maddening. And then of course most (obviously not all) then defund schools, healthcare, childcare, etc etc cause it's "socialist". It all adds up to a messed up world with a lot of unwanted kids (which is super shitty) living in a cruel in uncaring world that only celebrated them bursting forth from the womb.

[cfbandyman]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

I don't like the lying and misleading. It does not fit into my belief system.  I have to chalk it up to the political world being comprised almost entirely of complete and utter fools.

For me, as someone who doesn’t subscribe to the same belief system, this is one reason why I am rejoicing. The lying and misleading is received as what it is. It was, what I took, as an underhanded attempt to make me live your belief system. I will rejoice any loss of any religious group’s, especially one acting in an underhanded and dishonest way, attempt to force religion on those who don’t want it.

I guess that's also part of it for me as well. It also pissed me off to no end to see churches both with signs and with donations to the vote yes thing. That crap should either be illegal or we need to tax them into oblivion. They can preach it all they want, but to get as involved as they did, when there are tons of starving, unclothed, homeless kids no doubt who could've used all that $$$ they forked out to try and make sure there are more starving, unclothed, and homeless kids because of their belief system maybe they should stop and think about it, for once.

[steve dave]

taxing religious institutions is one of the top positions on which I will run for president on. metric system, fixing the seasons, I've got other bangers in there....

[DQ12]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

I don't like the lying and misleading. It does not fit into my belief system.  I have to chalk it up to the political world being comprised almost entirely of complete and utter fools.

For me, as someone who doesn’t subscribe to the same belief system, this is one reason why I am rejoicing. The lying and misleading is received as what it is. It was, what I took, as an underhanded attempt to make me live your belief system. I will rejoice any loss of any religious group’s, especially one acting in an underhanded and dishonest way, attempt to force religion on those who don’t want it.

I guess that's also part of it for me as well. It also pissed me off to no end to see churches both with signs and with donations to the vote yes thing. That crap should either be illegal or we need to tax them into oblivion. They can preach it all they want, but to get as involved as they did, when there are tons of starving, unclothed, homeless kids no doubt who could've used all that $$$ they forked out to try and make sure there are more starving, unclothed, and homeless kids because of their belief system maybe they should stop and think about it, for once.

Churches do a lot to help starving, unclothed, homeless kids.

They're allowed to support (in their view) laws prohibiting killing humans, in addition to their charity work.  You just see the issue differently than churches do, which is fine too obviously.

[catastrophe]

Historically speaking, I can’t think of many examples where the church actively tried to influence government and it worked out for the better.

[bucket]

I just hopped on FB and 

[michigancat]

The joyous celebration of this is disturbing to me.  But I understand I have a starkly different opinion on this issue than most of you.

Interesting. Have you considered if the vote would have gone the other way the same people may have been disappointed or angry and many yes voters would be celebrating?

I don't think many "Yes" voters actually cared that much. (given social media reactions)

[nicname]

I would be interesting to hear an honest answer from the Yes crowd regarding the obvious attempt to mislead the public.  It might have all been this one group, but I doubt it.
 - Amendment written in such a way that either it was intentionally misleading or written by idiots and incompetents
 - Lots of texts, mailers, etc that further mislead making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice
 - TV ads from Harrison Butker, Patty Dunn, etc all making it sound like Yes is for rights most would associate with pro choice.
 - I came across several Reddit discussions with people actively trying to deceive the entire convo, then once the light of day was shown completely and obviously, they would edit their post to call everyone baby murderers, then move to other subreddits and start all over. 

This seems too large, far reaching, and involving too many individuals for this to only be the Forge Alliance folks, unless they are huge.

If the Yes crowd are going to blame this solely on the Forge Alliance group, how did they not catch it and change it or stop it once the campaign began? 

Given all the smoke, how does the every day person who wanted Yes to prevail feel about all the lying and misleading?  How does said lying fit into their belief system?

I don't like the lying and misleading. It does not fit into my belief system.  I have to chalk it up to the political world being comprised almost entirely of complete and utter fools.

Fools? I think just very selfish, sinful people. Many are very, very clever.

I was going to post earlier about how I’d looked and tried to find an objective nutshell synopsis on what we were actually to be voting on, and how I was confused despite my searches.

Guess I wasn’t the only one.

[nicname]

Less government involvement should be a good thing.

Yeah, I take heart in this issue, and hopefully more in the future being left up to states and local municipalities.

[star seed 7]

Historically speaking, I can’t think of many examples where the church actively tried to influence government and it worked out for the better.

The abolitionist movement was pretty churchy

[nicname]

Historically speaking, I can’t think of many examples where the church actively tried to influence government and it worked out for the better.

The abolitionist movement was pretty churchy

As was the radical reconstruction movement.