Author Topic: EMERGENCY!  (Read 5921 times)

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Offline Dlew12

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #175 on: February 18, 2019, 11:09:46 AM »
Neither of them believe anything they say on here. It’s just escapism from real life to flame everyone and construct arguments counter to everyone else.
I don't think kazdub is in support of the federal government seizing land.

I support eminent domain for legitimate public use. It’s in the Constitution. There’s a big damn difference between a genuine public use, such as building an interstate highway or a dam or a border wall, and simply taking land from one owner to sell to a developer for the “public benefit” of higher tax revenue, as the Kelo decision held. What a shitty, inexcusably awful Supreme Court decision. A 5-4 decision with the libs plus Kennedy.

I believe everything I’ve said here about immigration. When I’m making fun of the liberals, it should be evident. Illegal immigration is a problem for all sorts of reasons: lack of assimilation, crime, a drain on public resources (health, education, etc.), driving down wages, etc. Border walls work, especially when combined with other resources, which is why we already have hundreds of miles of border wall and other barriers and why border agents overwhelmingly support more.

I think declaring an emergency to reallocate money to build the wall is legally complicated and questionable. It will certainly be enjoined by 9th circuit district and appellate judges, but that means nothing. Not sure how the SC would rule if they even granted cert. it’s certainly not my preferred way to build a wall, but Trump is never going to get adequate funds from Congress, and the Pubs are just as much to blame for that as the Dems.

Immigration is one of several areas where Trump has failed miserably because he is neither smart enough nor politically engaged to keep the Pubs in line. I have a seperate post outlining Trump’s successes and failures, and how those relate to his strengths and weaknesses.

What else do I need to say? Continue blathering away if it makes you happy.

Yeah, blighting out an area so a developer can come bang out a project is not what ED is for.  I agree with most of what you said. 

I think legislating through National Emergency is a bad plan for a lot of reasons.

:cheers: I agree with you. I don’t like it either, but mainly because I don’t like that we’ve come to this point. If Trump we’re smarter and more politically engaged, if many Republicans weren’t so corrupt, if the Democrats weren’t so uniformly desicated to open borders - there’s a lot of blame to go around.
But congressional stalemates exist for a reason, right?  The rules aren't supposed to be "well if Congress can't agree, the tiebreaker goes to the president and he can do whatever he wants."  That's the whole point of separation of powers.  Whether we want to fund a border wall seems like a quintessentially legislative task. 


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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #176 on: February 18, 2019, 11:57:23 AM »
Neither of them believe anything they say on here. It’s just escapism from real life to flame everyone and construct arguments counter to everyone else.
I don't think kazdub is in support of the federal government seizing land.

I support eminent domain for legitimate public use. It’s in the Constitution. There’s a big damn difference between a genuine public use, such as building an interstate highway or a dam or a border wall, and simply taking land from one owner to sell to a developer for the “public benefit” of higher tax revenue, as the Kelo decision held. What a shitty, inexcusably awful Supreme Court decision. A 5-4 decision with the libs plus Kennedy.

I believe everything I’ve said here about immigration. When I’m making fun of the liberals, it should be evident. Illegal immigration is a problem for all sorts of reasons: lack of assimilation, crime, a drain on public resources (health, education, etc.), driving down wages, etc. Border walls work, especially when combined with other resources, which is why we already have hundreds of miles of border wall and other barriers and why border agents overwhelmingly support more.

I think declaring an emergency to reallocate money to build the wall is legally complicated and questionable. It will certainly be enjoined by 9th circuit district and appellate judges, but that means nothing. Not sure how the SC would rule if they even granted cert. it’s certainly not my preferred way to build a wall, but Trump is never going to get adequate funds from Congress, and the Pubs are just as much to blame for that as the Dems.

Immigration is one of several areas where Trump has failed miserably because he is neither smart enough nor politically engaged to keep the Pubs in line. I have a seperate post outlining Trump’s successes and failures, and how those relate to his strengths and weaknesses.

What else do I need to say? Continue blathering away if it makes you happy.

Yeah, blighting out an area so a developer can come bang out a project is not what ED is for.  I agree with most of what you said. 

I think legislating through National Emergency is a bad plan for a lot of reasons.

:cheers: I agree with you. I don’t like it either, but mainly because I don’t like that we’ve come to this point. If Trump we’re smarter and more politically engaged, if many Republicans weren’t so corrupt, if the Democrats weren’t so uniformly desicated to open borders - there’s a lot of blame to go around.
But congressional stalemates exist for a reason, right?  The rules aren't supposed to be "well if Congress can't agree, the tiebreaker goes to the president and he can do whatever he wants."  That's the whole point of separation of powers.  Whether we want to fund a border wall seems like a quintessentially legislative task.

Enforcing laws - including all the existing immigration laws - is quintessentially a task for the executive branch. That’s Civics 101.

I honestly think we’ve gotten to a point where people have actually forgotten that it’s against the law to enter the United States without authorization. The border wall isn’t a new law (purview of the legislature) - it’s means of enforcing existing law. That’s the job of the executive.

Now, compare to what Obama did with DACA. He stretched the concept of “prosecutorial discretion” to a whole new level by exempting a broad classification of people from enforcement of existing immigration law. Changing laws is quintessentially a legislative function, not for the executive.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 12:01:48 PM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #177 on: February 18, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
Hey Dlew . . . you guys facilitated a climate with your guy where he didn't ask Congress for multiple things and he just went ahead and did them.

Libya, Iran, Syria etc. etc.



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Offline Spracne

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #178 on: February 18, 2019, 12:06:04 PM »
It's an interesting question of law. All judges profess to uphold the separation of powers, but in reality the jurisprudence is "squishy" (<-- super technical legal jargon). Sure, the purse strings belong to the Legislative branch, but the Executive branch has plenary authority over international affairs. Could they take that angle, and would it work? Lots of room for judges to rule however they want. Me personally, I think you have to take a pragmatic view and call this an unlawful usurpation of power by the Executive. Would be nice to get some good precedent in the books.

Offline Dlew12

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #179 on: February 18, 2019, 12:09:45 PM »
Hey Dlew . . . you guys facilitated a climate with your guy where he didn't ask Congress for multiple things and he just went ahead and did them.

Libya, Iran, Syria etc. etc.
Yes.  Dlew12, Obama apologist.  You've got me nailed on that one.

Enforcing laws - including all the existing immigration laws - is quintessentially a task for the executive branch. That’s Civics 101.

I honestly think we’ve gotten to a point where people have actually forgotten that it’s against the law to enter the United States without authorization. The border wall isn’t a new law (purview of the legislature) - it’s means of enforcing existing law. That’s the job of the executive.

Now, compare to what Obama did with DACA. He stretched the concept of “prosecutorial discretion” to a whole new level by exempting a broad classification of people from enforcement of existing immigration law. Changing laws is quintessentially a legislative function, not for the executive.
Sure, but allocating money for the wall (which is one, of many possible methods of "enforcing the law") isn't the responsibility of the executive.  You're getting pretty liberal with your job description of the president if you think he can unilaterally fund something like this - and, hey, maybe you want to expand executive power, but you have to understand that's what's happening here.


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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #180 on: February 18, 2019, 12:12:11 PM »
It's an interesting question of law. All judges profess to uphold the separation of powers, but in reality the jurisprudence is "squishy" (<-- super technical legal jargon). Sure, the purse strings belong to the Legislative branch, but the Executive branch has plenary authority over international affairs. Could they take that angle, and would it work? Lots of room for judges to rule however they want. Me personally, I think you have to take a pragmatic view and call this an unlawful usurpation of power by the Executive. Would be nice to get some good precedent in the books.

You’re getting into the source of the funding, which is an interesting and complicated legal issue. But more fundamentally, setting aside the cost of the wall, enforcing immigration law is not only appropriate for the executive - it is the executive’s responsibility. As for the funds, I think that Trump will probably prevail at the Supreme Court, but I wouldn’t say I’m nearly as confident as, say, the travel ban.
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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #181 on: February 18, 2019, 12:14:55 PM »
This isn’t about enforcing laws. This is about Trump asking for a budgeted amount to build a new structure, getting only part of the amount he asked for, and then budgeting the rest himself.

Offline DaBigTrain

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #182 on: February 18, 2019, 12:16:26 PM »
Dlew12 if you’re not marching and saluting Trump you are a Obama/Hillary apologist libderp in Dax’s eyes.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #183 on: February 18, 2019, 12:34:39 PM »
This isn’t about enforcing laws. This is about Trump asking for a budgeted amount to build a new structure, getting only part of the amount he asked for, and then budgeting the rest himself.

But the crux is that you're complaining about an empirical president, and yet you said nothing when your guy was acting like an empirical president.

The simple facts are, you stood complicity by and allowed forays to far off lands for unneeded wars, and now you complain when there is a real issue right at the front door of the homeland.





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Offline Dlew12

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #184 on: February 18, 2019, 12:49:31 PM »
It's an interesting question of law. All judges profess to uphold the separation of powers, but in reality the jurisprudence is "squishy" (<-- super technical legal jargon). Sure, the purse strings belong to the Legislative branch, but the Executive branch has plenary authority over international affairs. Could they take that angle, and would it work? Lots of room for judges to rule however they want. Me personally, I think you have to take a pragmatic view and call this an unlawful usurpation of power by the Executive. Would be nice to get some good precedent in the books.

You’re getting into the source of the funding, which is an interesting and complicated legal issue. But more fundamentally, setting aside the cost of the wall, enforcing immigration law is not only appropriate for the executive - it is the executive’s responsibility. As for the funds, I think that Trump will probably prevail at the Supreme Court, but I wouldn’t say I’m nearly as confident as, say, the travel ban.
Right.  We're "getting into the source of the funding" in a thread criticizing the president's declaration of a national emergency in order to fund something. 

Welcome to the thread.


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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #185 on: February 18, 2019, 12:52:55 PM »
This isn’t about enforcing laws. This is about Trump asking for a budgeted amount to build a new structure, getting only part of the amount he asked for, and then budgeting the rest himself.

But the crux is that you're complaining about an empirical president, and yet you said nothing when your guy was acting like an empirical president.

The simple facts are, you stood complicity by and allowed forays to far off lands for unneeded wars, and now you complain when there is a real issue right at the front door of the homeland.

Not sure what about my statement makes you think I’m part of libderp nation.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #186 on: February 18, 2019, 01:02:42 PM »
Anyone further left than Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh is libderp nation guys.  You should know this by now.
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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #187 on: February 18, 2019, 01:03:44 PM »
wall has no bearing on the executive responsibly to enforce laws, what a phony argument.

Kdub is mad that he is in the political minority on this issue and wants the president to be king for a day. It's sad he goes along with it.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline steve dave

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #188 on: February 18, 2019, 01:28:53 PM »
Not to toot my own horn but I said from day one all of the right wingers on this board would get in lockstep with literally anything Trump says/does. The thing about being a moderate is you are almost always right. It’s a heavy burden to bear.


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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #189 on: February 18, 2019, 01:37:53 PM »
I think dub is sad he has to swallow this huge expansion of the president's executive authority.  But he's swallowed worse from Trump.

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #190 on: February 18, 2019, 02:25:26 PM »
Trump should declare another national emergency, requiring that he be given the title of "King," and govern by Divine Right indefinitely.


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #191 on: February 18, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »
Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.

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Offline Dlew12

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #192 on: February 18, 2019, 02:54:48 PM »
Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.
I do not like when the executive effectively legislates.  I didn't like it when Obama did it.  I don't like it now.  I disapprove of the practice, and I do not believe the ends justify the means on this issue.

Dax/KSU-W (I assume) did not approve when Obama did it.  Do they approve of it when Trump does it?  Honest question.


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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #193 on: February 18, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.
I do not like when the executive effectively legislates.  I didn't like it when Obama did it.  I don't like it now.  I disapprove of the practice, and I do not believe the ends justify the means on this issue.

Dax/KSU-W (I assume) did not approve when Obama did it.  Do they approve of it when Trump does it?  Honest question.

I already explained above that at least with respect to immigration there is a significant difference between the propriety of Obama and Trump’s actions.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #194 on: February 18, 2019, 03:02:22 PM »
Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.
I do not like when the executive effectively legislates.  I didn't like it when Obama did it.  I don't like it now.  I disapprove of the practice, and I do not believe the ends justify the means on this issue.

Dax/KSU-W (I assume) did not approve when Obama did it.  Do they approve of it when Trump does it?  Honest question.

I am on the fence if I agree with it on this particular issue.   I would disagree with it very much if it meant another new war or similar. 

They're apprehending (again, that's just the number caught) 60K a month at the Southern Border.   It's an emergency.   The only reason that LibDerp Nation doesn't think it is, is because of Trump, period.

In regards to immigration and maintaining of national sovereignty, that falls exclusively under the executive branch.



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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #195 on: February 18, 2019, 03:06:39 PM »
Your gripe with Obama is that he decided to enforce the laws differently than you think they should be. It's no different than Jackson County Missouri deciding not to prosecute marijuana possession anymore.

Kdub is right that there is a significant difference between that and deciding congress isn't funding something that he wants so trump just does it anyway.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:09:55 PM by libstradamus »
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Dlew12

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #196 on: February 18, 2019, 03:11:03 PM »
Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.
I do not like when the executive effectively legislates.  I didn't like it when Obama did it.  I don't like it now.  I disapprove of the practice, and I do not believe the ends justify the means on this issue.

Dax/KSU-W (I assume) did not approve when Obama did it.  Do they approve of it when Trump does it?  Honest question.

I already explained above that at least with respect to immigration there is a significant difference between the propriety of Obama and Trump’s actions.
You didn't really explain it.  The overreach here is the president unilaterally securing funding for this, despite Congress' unambiguous opposition to the funding.  Do you think the president should have the power to fund projects after congress refuses to fund them?

Once again, resident LibDerp Nation and the resident Fake Moderate think that agreement with Trump on one set of issues, is an agreement with Trump on all issues.

Tremendous hyper partisanship on display as usual from these people.    You quite literally had years to make your voices heard on these exact same kind of issues, but chose to remain utterly complicit to your party and your guy in the White House.

SMDH, sad.
I do not like when the executive effectively legislates.  I didn't like it when Obama did it.  I don't like it now.  I disapprove of the practice, and I do not believe the ends justify the means on this issue.

Dax/KSU-W (I assume) did not approve when Obama did it.  Do they approve of it when Trump does it?  Honest question.

I am on the fence if I agree with it on this particular issue.   I would disagree with it very much if it meant another new war or similar. 

They're apprehending (again, that's just the number caught) 60K a month at the Southern Border.   It's an emergency.   The only reason that LibDerp Nation doesn't think it is, is because of Trump, period.

In regards to immigration and maintaining of national sovereignty, that falls exclusively under the executive branch.
Do you think SCOTUS (or some other body) should provide a high level of scrutiny as to what constitutes an "emergency" or should the executive be left to its own devices when it legislates like this?


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #197 on: March 01, 2019, 06:44:13 AM »
No Border, No Wall, No USA at all!!  No Border, No Wall, No USA at all!!  No Border, No Wall, No USA at all!! No Border, No Wall, No USA at all!!
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/27/nypd-ms-13-planning-to-target-off-duty-cops-at-their-homes/
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Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2019, 09:54:17 AM »
oh man just like Mexico where the cops are afraid of the cartel, this is gonna be great
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

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Re: EMERGENCY!
« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2019, 10:57:00 AM »
 :Ugh: