Author Topic: The Thread for Democratic Socialists/AOC watch with 24/7 AOC updates  (Read 181352 times)

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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2018, 10:28:03 PM »
Fedreal jobs guarantee? What does it mean to coin something a human right?

This is batshit. How you could anyone over the age of 12  possibly be like "yeah, totally reasonable"
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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2018, 10:29:21 PM »
also, it's not like "it's none of the government's business" has stopped the government from doing...anything before. Like, why does the government's business end with giving people a safety net in case they get sick? Weird threshold.

Probably the unfortunate realization that the govt only has 4 trillion dollars at its disposal

Get a grip, lunatic
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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2018, 10:31:53 PM »
i have no idea what #7 means and i'm against #s 4 and 14.  #s 5, 6 and 8 i'm for.  all of the others, i could either be for or against depending on how the slogan is translated into details.  i guess that's slightly true of 4 and 14 too (and 5, 6 and 8 in the other direction), but i'm far enough to one side of the spectrum that it'd be pretty hard to make me go the other way on those.

didn't realize you were strongly against glass steagall. I guess I've never seen you discuss it

I don't even know what Glass Steagall would really get us, but the way Bernie pitched it (tax on Wallstreet speculation) seemed pretty appealing to me at the time.

I 100% guarantee you bernie and this dingbat dont have the slightest idea of what G-S is or its practical application today, but eff WALL STREE FAT CATS
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Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2018, 10:43:09 PM »
didn't realize you were strongly against glass steagall. I guess I've never seen you discuss it

it doesn't come up much.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2018, 10:45:07 PM »
How much would Medicare for all cost, KSUW?

Well the estimate for California alone was $400 billion..... And have you ever known one of these estimates to overestimate cost?

http://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article151960182.html

Nobody with even half a brain can seriously contend that we can even come close to paying for “Medicare For All” without stupendously massive tax increases. Nor can they seriously contend that after spending all that money, most people would get healthcare better than our current model of socialized medicine - the VA.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2018, 10:52:56 PM »
It's just so troubling that allegedly educated adults not only indulge these fantasies, but by all accounts accept them at face value.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2018, 10:54:50 PM »
I don't know what her plan for number 7 is, but when KSU argues that part of the United States should be a 3rd world crap hole as a rebuttal, it's easy to agree with her.

We spend about $21 billion annually in federal aid to PR. How much more do you think will sufficient? To achieve what standard, exactly?

www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/09/storm-dealt-puerto-rico-knockout-blow-after-decades-fiscal-failure-corruption.amp.html
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2018, 10:56:01 PM »
It's just so troubling that allegedly educated adults not only indulge these fantasies, but by all accounts accept them at face value.

I saw about 4,000 of them at s recent rally. Still surprised there are so many on this board.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2018, 10:59:03 PM »
It's abject ignorance and willful stupidity, and they are the squeekiest wheels.
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Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2018, 11:00:58 PM »
Nobody with even half a brain can seriously contend that we can even come close to paying for “Medicare For All” without stupendously massive tax increases. Nor can they seriously contend that after spending all that money, most people would get healthcare better than our current model of socialized medicine - the VA.

we currently spend 17.9% of gdp on health care.  if we can't do medicare for all or some other public version of health care for less than that we should just give up trying to be a country and turn ourselves over to canada.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2018, 11:05:30 PM »
Sys is like level13 stupid, some how a counterproductive useful idiot because he fucks up the talking points so hard.
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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2018, 11:06:23 PM »
Mods, it's time to change sys' username to village fucktard
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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2018, 12:37:03 AM »
I don't know what her plan for number 7 is, but when KSU argues that part of the United States should be a 3rd world crap hole as a rebuttal, it's easy to agree with her.

We spend about $21 billion annually in federal aid to PR. How much more do you think will sufficient? To achieve what standard, exactly?

www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/09/storm-dealt-puerto-rico-knockout-blow-after-decades-fiscal-failure-corruption.amp.html

Whatever it takes to bring them from 3rd world to whatever Mississippi is.

Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2018, 08:32:04 AM »
there's just no possible way to pay for this without using the money we currently use to pay for the same service, so you can see it's quite impossible.  said the conservative, making perfect sense.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2018, 08:34:07 AM »
there's just no possible way to pay for this without using the money we currently use to pay for the same service, so you can see it's quite impossible.  said the conservative, making perfect sense.

I legit think that most of them assume that private health care spending would be unchanged and this is just a completely new government initiative requiring a completely new funding stream.


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Offline DQ12

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2018, 09:01:16 AM »
Whatever AOC is for, I'm for.


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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2018, 09:07:26 AM »
This is really so obvious that it shouldn’t require explanation, but evidently not for some, so here goes. First, most of the staggering cost estimates you see being bandied about are on top of what we’re already paying for publicly subsidized healthcare.

Second, whether the necessary increase in taxes would be less or more than the money saved on private healthcare premiums and deductibles depends upon many factors, but chiefly what your income is now and what you’re paying for healthcare. Some lower income people who aren’t on Medicaid might see a cost savings.

Many people with higher incomes will find that the increased taxes exceed the savings. This is particularly true when one considers that even under a Medicaid For All model, many people who can afford it will still pay privately for better care and quicker access to specialists than the publicly available care.

If you dispute either of these things, you have a serious lack of common sense and should probably see a healthcare professional about this.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline steve dave

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2018, 09:11:03 AM »
wrong

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2018, 09:14:03 AM »
I could see a medicare for all approach potentially making some rural hospitals shut down.

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2018, 09:14:18 AM »
Quote
Historically, Medicare-for-all has meant single-payer health insurance, a national government-run program that covered every American and replaced private coverage entirely

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/2/17468448/medicare-for-all-single-payer-health-care-2018-elections


this is what i assume people mean when they say medicare for all, not some hybrid program.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2018, 09:21:19 AM »


Every item on the Cortez platform that Hannity argued against is a noble goal that our government should be working toward. The arguments should be how to achieve those goals. When you argue against the goals themselves, you just look ridiculous.
Disagree. You can't argue much against the goals, most of them are great. However, you can certainly argue against the government's role in achieving them. Most of those are none of government's business.

Can you explain?  I am having a hard time understanding how private citizens/companies can achieve any of these goals really.

Okay, waited to be in front of a computer.  Re-reading the goals, I guess that doesn't really jive, but I was thinking more along the lines of everyone having housing, jobs, higher ed, etc. being a good goal for society.  Fundamentally, I disagree with socialism as much as anyone could.

Not an expert in any of these areas, merely trying to apply basic principles. Addressing each:

  • Medicare for All: Sure, healthcare is totally broken, the wrong people are getting paid too much, the right people aren't getting paid enough, people "pay" too much.  Burn the whole thing down and start over.
  • Housing as a Human Right: Not the government's business
  • A Federal Jobs Guarantee: Absolutely not.  If the jobs were needed and solvent, they would be there. UBI is flawed and still a huge overreach, but is a better solution.
  • Assault Weapons Ban: I fundamentally disagree. Gun control and background checks / training reqs are fine, but I think they will be ineffectual.
  • Criminal Justice Reform / End Private Prisons:  End drug use prosecutions.  Private prisons seems more a problem with campaign finance and lobbying which promotes incarcerating more people.  Don't think anything is inherently wrong with private prisons.
  • Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE: What is "immigration justice"?  Refugees should get legitimate hearings, parents shouldn't get separated from children.  That is clear.  This shouldn't mean free immigration.  Legal immigration should be selective in a manner to bring productive people to the US in fields that we need.  Illegal immigration should be prevented, period.  ICE has clearly gone off the rails, but someone needs to be in charge of preventing illegal immigration.
  • Solidarity with PR: Yes they are American citizens.  Yes we should provide federal disaster relief.  Shouldn't be federal government's job to send cash if they are otherwise broke.  Same as it isn't for Kansas, Illinois, Guam or Liberia.
  • Mobilizing Against Climate Change: Good, but depends on what "mobilizing" means.  Develop tech.
  • Clean Campaign Finance: Yes, this is the most important thing possible
  • Higher Ed for All: Not the government's job.  Not even close.  Certainly not the federal government.
  • Women's Rights: Assuming this means abortion rights? Great.
  • Support LGBTQIA+Seniors: This means nothing substantive?  Allow them to do what they want, same as anyone else.
  • Curb Wall Street Gambling / Restore Glass Steagall: No
:adios:

Offline sys

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2018, 09:30:02 AM »
private prisons are a moral and bureaucratic abomination.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2018, 09:32:30 AM »
education isn't the government's job?  that's an unusual ideological position.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2018, 09:34:57 AM »

Offline DQ12

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Re: The Thread for Democratic Socialists
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2018, 09:37:38 AM »
education isn't the government's job?  that's an unusual ideological position.
I think providing free education for children is certainly the government's job. 


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