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[Rage Against the McKee]

I think the federal government should set tuition caps for schools if they want their students to be eligible for loans.

[sys]

I think providing free education for children is certainly the government's job.

why do you distinguish between educating 17 year old citizens and 18 year old citizens?  and what does this even mean in practice.  are you and 8man opposed to our expansive system of state universities?

[DQ12]

I think providing free education for children is certainly the government's job.

why do you distinguish between educating 17 year old citizens and 18 year old citizens?  and what does this even mean in practice.  are you and 8man opposed to our expansive system of state universities?

I think there are some obvious differences between the aims of high schools (and elementary/junior highs) and colleges. 

We also force <18 year olds to attend school by law.  The choice to attend a college is elective.

[8manpick]

Idealogically, I don't think education should have anything to do with the federal government, which is what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is running for.

[8manpick]

private prisons are a moral and bureaucratic abomination.

Re: private prisons
http://www.justicepolicy.org/mobile/news/12006

That seems bad.  I know very little about the subject and don't feel strongly. Still think it is more a problem of lobbying. I don't see a reason why it would be inherently bad, even if the current setup is bad.

[sys]

We also force <18 year olds to attend school by law.  The choice to attend a college is elective.

when they say higher education for all, i don't assume they mean that it will be mandatory.

[sys]

Idealogically, I don't think education should have anything to do with the federal government, which is what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is running for.

the federal government currently subsidizes the operation of both state and private universities, do you oppose this?  and fundamentally, what difference does it make.  low state taxes/higher federal taxes and the feds kick money to public universities or higher state taxes/lower federal taxes and the states wholly self-fund public universities.  potayto/potahto.

[sonofdaxjones]

You hate private prisons then seek the immediate repeal of “we will bring them to heel” legislation/laws.

[DQ12]

We also force <18 year olds to attend school by law.  The choice to attend a college is elective.

when they say higher education for all, i don't assume they mean that it will be mandatory.

I know. I don't either.

You asked why I distinguished between free HS education and college education.  My point is that I think it's reasonable to provide free high school education considering we force everyone to attend high school.  If we want to make college education mandatory (bad idea imo), then I think it would make sense to make college education free too.  Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

[sys]

I don't see a reason why it would be inherently bad, even if the current setup is bad.

you don't see an inherent moral problem with a private entity exercising the power of life and liberty?

[michigancat]

here are some more concrete discussions of "housing as a human right":

https://www.nesri.org/programs/what-is-the-human-right-to-housing

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-housing-rights-human-rights-1.4414854

[chum1]

We also force <18 year olds to attend school by law.  The choice to attend a college is elective.

when they say higher education for all, i don't assume they mean that it will be mandatory.

I know. I don't either.

You asked why I distinguished between free HS education and college education.  My point is that I think it's reasonable to provide free high school education considering we force everyone to attend high school.  If we want to make college education mandatory (bad idea imo), then I think it would make sense to make college education free too.  Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

I don't think that part is true.

[sys]

Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

i think that a society can decide that it is advantageous to have a citizenry educated beyond secondary school and choose to subsidize the cost of that education even if it allows its citizens to choose for themselves whether or not they take advantage of that opportunity.

i do take your point that in making k-12 mandatory, they have an obligation to pay for the cost of that education.  whereas with higher education, the decision to subsidize the cost or not is a societal choice, not an obligation.

[michigancat]

private prisons are a moral and bureaucratic abomination.

Re: private prisons
http://www.justicepolicy.org/mobile/news/12006

That seems bad.  I know very little about the subject and don't feel strongly. Still think it is more a problem of lobbying. I don't see a reason why it would be inherently bad, even if the current setup is bad.

here's another good read: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer/

Private prisons will inevitably be inherently bad because any increased profit pretty much has to come at the expense of the safety and well-being of humans.

[sys]

here are some more concrete discussions of "housing as a human right":

https://www.nesri.org/programs/what-is-the-human-right-to-housing

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-housing-rights-human-rights-1.4414854

as vague as that is, it mostly sounds not good.  much better just to give people money.

[8manpick]

Idealogically, I don't think education should have anything to do with the federal government, which is what Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is running for.

the federal government currently subsidizes the operation of both state and private universities, do you oppose this?  and fundamentally, what difference does it make.  low state taxes/higher federal taxes and the feds kick money to public universities or higher state taxes/lower federal taxes and the states wholly self-fund public universities.  potayto/potahto.

Yes I do oppose that.  Higher state taxes, lower federal taxes means states have more freedom to decide differently what to do with the money for the people who live there.  Less homogenization between states, more experimentation.

I don't see a reason why it would be inherently bad, even if the current setup is bad.

you don't see an inherent moral problem with a private entity exercising the power of life and liberty?

The court system exercises the power of life and liberty, the private entity houses them.  As long as they are enforcing the government mandate in accordance with its terms, I don't see an inherent problem.  I'm out of my depth with any details on private prisons though.

[DQ12]

Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

i think that a society can decide that it is advantageous to have a citizenry educated beyond secondary school and choose to subsidize the cost of that education even if it allows its citizens to choose for themselves whether or not they take advantage of that opportunity.

i do take your point that in making k-12 mandatory, they have an obligation to pay for the cost of that education.  whereas with higher education, the decision to subsidize the cost or not is a societal choice, not an obligation.

We're on the same page.  Sounds like we just fall on different sides of the coin.

Would those demanding "higher education for all" also favor "graduate degree education for all"?  Should the cost of education ever fall on the student, and if so, where should we draw the line?

[8manpick]

private prisons are a moral and bureaucratic abomination.

Re: private prisons
http://www.justicepolicy.org/mobile/news/12006

That seems bad.  I know very little about the subject and don't feel strongly. Still think it is more a problem of lobbying. I don't see a reason why it would be inherently bad, even if the current setup is bad.

here's another good read: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer/

Private prisons will inevitably be inherently bad because any increased profit pretty much has to come at the expense of the safety and well-being of humans.

That makes sense.

[sys]

The court system exercises the power of life and liberty, the private entity houses them.  As long as they are enforcing the government mandate in accordance with its terms, I don't see an inherent problem.  I'm out of my depth with any details on private prisons though.

corrections is a branch of the criminal justice system.  they exercise power of an inmate's liberty that is not subject to judicial review (solitary, access to facilities, eligibility for work/educational programs, etc.).  i'm not sure if private prisons are also explicitly authorized to exercise judgement over things like parole, early release, etc.  however as the only possible non-inmate witnesses, they defacto have the power to impact all of that as well as prosecution for any prison crimes.

[star seed 7]

Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

i think that a society can decide that it is advantageous to have a citizenry educated beyond secondary school and choose to subsidize the cost of that education even if it allows its citizens to choose for themselves whether or not they take advantage of that opportunity.

i do take your point that in making k-12 mandatory, they have an obligation to pay for the cost of that education.  whereas with higher education, the decision to subsidize the cost or not is a societal choice, not an obligation.

We're on the same page.  Sounds like we just fall on different sides of the coin.

Would those demanding "higher education for all" also favor "graduate degree education for all"?  Should the cost of education ever fall on the student, and if so, where should we draw the line?

Why does a line need to be drawn?

[8manpick]

The court system exercises the power of life and liberty, the private entity houses them.  As long as they are enforcing the government mandate in accordance with its terms, I don't see an inherent problem.  I'm out of my depth with any details on private prisons though.

corrections is a branch of the criminal justice system.  they exercise power of an inmate's liberty that is not subject to judicial review (solitary, access to facilities, eligibility for work/educational programs, etc.).  i'm not sure if private prisons are also explicitly authorized to exercise judgement over things like parole, early release, etc.  however as the only possible non-inmate witnesses, they defacto have the power to impact all of that as well as prosecution for any prison crimes.

Well there you go.  I don't like private prisons now.

[Rage Against the McKee]

What is the approach to fixing skyrocketing tuition costs that doesn't involve heavy-handed intervention from the government? Is there anything that can happen other than a lot of people just deciding not to go to college?

[catastrophe]

I think the federal government should set tuition caps for schools if they want their students to be eligible for loans.

I really like the sound of this. There are a lot of strings that could be attached to loans in order to halt the ridiculous rate of tuition increases.

[sys]

 

[DQ12]

Given that the choice to attend college is completely discretionary, I think people can make the decision on whether they want to attend college -- including whether the choice to attend is worth the associated financial burdens.

i think that a society can decide that it is advantageous to have a citizenry educated beyond secondary school and choose to subsidize the cost of that education even if it allows its citizens to choose for themselves whether or not they take advantage of that opportunity.

i do take your point that in making k-12 mandatory, they have an obligation to pay for the cost of that education.  whereas with higher education, the decision to subsidize the cost or not is a societal choice, not an obligation.

We're on the same page.  Sounds like we just fall on different sides of the coin.

Would those demanding "higher education for all" also favor "graduate degree education for all"?  Should the cost of education ever fall on the student, and if so, where should we draw the line?

Why does a line need to be drawn?

....because that's inherent in the question. Should the cost of education ever fall on the student, and if so, when?