Author Topic: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats  (Read 534967 times)

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4375 on: January 14, 2020, 02:17:33 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Is your "surprise" that someone who has presidential aspirations doesn't want to step aside for someone else, actually real? Seems contrived as I don't know you to be naive.

Offline Trim

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4376 on: January 14, 2020, 02:28:50 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Is your "surprise" that someone who has presidential aspirations doesn't want to step aside for someone else, actually real? Seems contrived as I don't know you to be naive.

Nope, sarcastic.  But it should help people remember that bernie and warren are just politicians like the rest.

I don't think it's arguable that either one of them would have a much greater chance of winning the nomination had they jointly decided from jump which one would run for president and that one likely getting all the support of people who otherwise would've been split between them.  If what they each hoped to achieve as president was their pure goal, they'd have figured something out.  But to each of them (and to the whole field, not just these two), being president is at least a little more important than the principles they're running on.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4377 on: January 14, 2020, 02:31:39 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Didn’t Warren spectacularly fail at this when she stepped aside for Hillary?

 :confused:

I thought Warren didn’t make a 2016 run because she thought Hillary was better positioned to win. At least I’m not sure why else she would not have run. I remember Joe’s explanation.

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Offline ChiComCat

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4379 on: January 14, 2020, 04:12:56 PM »
https://twitter.com/AliceFromQueens/status/1217159213127999490?s=19

This was my take as well.  I also think if the Dem's aren't willing to broach that subject, they are putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4380 on: January 14, 2020, 04:42:21 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Is your "surprise" that someone who has presidential aspirations doesn't want to step aside for someone else, actually real? Seems contrived as I don't know you to be naive.

I know you stated you are caucusing for Warren, but does it make any sense that Bernie would encourage Warren to run against Hillary (apparently because he thought 2 women could potentially win the presidency!) and then 2 years later be so sexist that he told Warren that she shouldn’t run because a woman couldn’t win?

I also think if you are concerned with electability at all you should think twice about Warren, but the easiest argument against her is that she is a rough ridin' liar and does it pretty regularly as a way to benefit herself.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4381 on: January 14, 2020, 05:36:27 PM »
I mean him placing alot of weight on the results of the 2016 election with respect to how he views probability of election makes some sense. On the other hand what if he had fully endorsed Hillary enthusiastically earlier?  :dunno:

If the allegation is that Bernie is sexist, it makes no sense. If the allegation is that Bernie reminded Warren that Trump and America are sexist, then what are we talking about?

Bernie has been incredibly supportive of Warren and outright friendly to her and in the past 2 weeks her campaign has gone absolutely cold blooded and cynical once it looked like she might be done. If there is any justice it will be the end of her candidacy.

She should've ran in '16 instead of Bernie, but she was too big a coward.

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4383 on: January 14, 2020, 11:30:35 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Didn’t Warren spectacularly fail at this when she stepped aside for Hillary?

 :confused:

I thought Warren didn’t make a 2016 run because she thought Hillary was better positioned to win. At least I’m not sure why else she would not have run. I remember Joe’s explanation.

I don't know why she didn't run, but there is no reason to think that there's any truth to this. If anything she wouldn't have run out of deference to Bernie.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4384 on: January 14, 2020, 11:53:03 PM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Is your "surprise" that someone who has presidential aspirations doesn't want to step aside for someone else, actually real? Seems contrived as I don't know you to be naive.

I know you stated you are caucusing for Warren, but does it make any sense that Bernie would encourage Warren to run against Hillary (apparently because he thought 2 women could potentially win the presidency!) and then 2 years later be so sexist that he told Warren that she shouldn’t run because a woman couldn’t win?

I also think if you are concerned with electability at all you should think twice about Warren, but the easiest argument against her is that she is a rough ridin' liar and does it pretty regularly as a way to benefit herself.

I already said that while I do believe that Bernie said this, the context was not "I don't think a woman can be president," but something to the effect of "this country has shown that they aren't ready for a woman as president." No one rational thinks that Bernie is a sexist and I think Sanders supporters know this but are throwing the word sexiest around as a device, either this or y'all are being too emotional to see the very obvious nuance within this conversation.

I will say this, I do think he has a ton of sexists that support him, as do all men running in an election against a woman/women. I didn't think he spoke out enough against this behavior four years ago and he isn't doing it now, and it's calculated.

Now as far as electability, you're correct, Bernie is more electable, but it's simply because of the previously discussed sexism, I'm not going to punish her because some men don't want to vote for a woman, that's ridiculous. They are both 70 something, white people, representing New England as progressives. Both were more conservative when younger. Both favor the absurd medicare for all. I'd venture to guess there haven't been two presidential candidates who are closer in your lifetime, certainly not the same running in the same election.

Even if I buy your "pretty regular lies" line, you act as if Bernie isn't perfect. I'll call Liz a liar if you acknowledge that Bernie didn't and isn't doing enough to control the vitriol that seems to seep out of his campaigns.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4385 on: January 14, 2020, 11:55:24 PM »
I'm watching the debate now, the whole Liz/Bernie/Klo exchange was extremely cringe, like all time cringe.

I hate M4A with the heat of a thousand suns, but Warren's plan to involve the government in the manufacture of drugs is a winner.

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4387 on: January 15, 2020, 12:01:21 AM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Is your "surprise" that someone who has presidential aspirations doesn't want to step aside for someone else, actually real? Seems contrived as I don't know you to be naive.

Nope, sarcastic.  But it should help people remember that bernie and warren are just politicians like the rest.

I don't think it's arguable that either one of them would have a much greater chance of winning the nomination had they jointly decided from jump which one would run for president and that one likely getting all the support of people who otherwise would've been split between them.  If what they each hoped to achieve as president was their pure goal, they'd have figured something out.  But to each of them (and to the whole field, not just these two), being president is at least a little more important than the principles they're running on.

Agree with all of this. Obama permanently took away any illusions I had of presidential candidates being virtuous. Any presidential candidate who doesn't have the removal of money out of our processes as their highest priority doesn't stand on any principled high ground. Money in politics simply exists to get people to act against their or their constituents wishes.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4389 on: January 15, 2020, 12:07:19 AM »
:lol:

https://twitter.com/JordanDajani/status/1217299066108948482

Stunning to me that this was their first "private" moment since the weekend. They were in the building for over an hour together before the debate and there were two extended, off stage breaks during the debate. She was pissed, not behaving like someone who made that story up, yet bernie supporters are all over twitter crying about cnn setting bernie up by asking him about this lie.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4390 on: January 15, 2020, 12:28:53 AM »
There was a kind of funny moment after where an anchor said something like, “Bernie was responding as if this was some he said she said, but this story was reported out including by CNN” and Anderson Cooper awkwardly was like “yeah but just to be clear the reporting was basically about a he said she said.”

Offline catastrophe

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4391 on: January 15, 2020, 12:29:43 AM »
Also Klob forgetting the name of the KS Gov by trying her damndest to remember was pretty lol

Offline nicname

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4392 on: January 15, 2020, 12:34:51 AM »
Also Klob forgetting the name of the KS Gov by trying her damndest to remember was pretty lol

I did :lol:.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4393 on: January 15, 2020, 12:44:50 AM »
What are the big distinctions between bernie and warren as far as what they want to accomplish?

They're aren't any. Some ardent, and ill informed, supporters will try to act as if small differences on process make for philosophical differences.

That was my impression.  Interesting that they couldn't work this all out well before campaigns started and prioritize their shared goals for the country over their personal ambitions.

Didn’t Warren spectacularly fail at this when she stepped aside for Hillary?

 :confused:

I thought Warren didn’t make a 2016 run because she thought Hillary was better positioned to win. At least I’m not sure why else she would not have run. I remember Joe’s explanation.

I don't know why she didn't run, but there is no reason to think that there's any truth to this. If anything she wouldn't have run out of deference to Bernie.

Well if that was the reason it helps the analogy quite a bit!

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4394 on: January 15, 2020, 12:45:11 AM »
Also Klob forgetting the name of the KS Gov by trying her damndest to remember was pretty lol

I'm proud to know her...she's my friend...she's...

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4395 on: January 15, 2020, 12:52:18 AM »
My takeaway from tonight is that Bernie supporters are just as adept at ruining twitter as MAGA are. My God, what a crap show. There are literally 7 trending topics right now specifically filled with Sanders supporters crying, including #NeverWarren lol, unhinged.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4397 on: January 15, 2020, 06:31:32 AM »
Also Klob forgetting the name of the KS Gov by trying her damndest to remember was pretty lol

I did :lol:.

Just happened to catch this part on the radio and I didn't know who was speaking but def lol'd
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline chum1

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4398 on: January 15, 2020, 07:33:11 AM »
Last night was my first (or maybe first in a long time?) debate this primary. I could only stand to watch like half an hour. My impressions below.

Joe: have no idea if he's actually following along or just pretending to understand that you can now take a photograph with your telephone.

Pete (first time seeing him): similar to Trump in that he cares 100% about himself and 0% about any of the issues he talks about. Really gross, guys.

Bernie: super grumpy. Always thinks he knows this crap better than anyone. Also doesn't play well with others.

Warren: a constant fight between lucid and frazzled in which both sides win. Knows damn well that Bernie knows what he said.

Steyer: nice guy. "I've always wanted to make a big, positive difference in our society and, gosh darn it, you only live once, I'm gonna run for president" energy.

Klob: a rookie on the stage right now, but after this election is over will shoot a thousand jump shots every night after practice and will be back to dunk on your rough ridin' faces next time. Just you wait, motherfuckers.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #4399 on: January 15, 2020, 07:46:18 AM »
Also Klob forgetting the name of the KS Gov by trying her damndest to remember was pretty lol

I'm proud to know her...she's my friend...she's...

The best part was trying to mumble something that sounded like a name and ending with “thank you.”