pos 'pubs being complete pieces of crap

[MakeItRain]

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Literally education is all about "teaching your child xyz whether you like it or not," and that's true for public and private school. Every state in America has educational standards, things that have to be taught, this is the case even if you home school. Education in America isn't something that individual parents get to dictate, for obvious reasons. The only subjects under attack are ones that could possibly involve LTGBQ or race. These bills that state you can't discuss or teach gender before x grade is also a sham, because they're still discussing gender, unless they're also removing books that have any cisgender mentions, which we know isn't happening.

If you want to make this a parental rights issue then the proposed laws need to be giving the parents the ability to home school without state standards instead of targeting two subsets of a potential subjects and nothing else.

[DQ12]

It seems like the left is mostly on the side of restricting parent rights, but I may be forgetting something.

What does this refer to?

What is what referring to?  Left seems like they were on kids’/teachers’ side with the don’t say gay (requiring teachers to tell parents kids’ sexuality/gender stuff), school curricula, books, etc.

Not saying any of that is right or wrong, but in the general cultural dialogue, it seems like the right has mostly been the ones carrying the “parental rights!” banner on most things.  So Stone’s comment struck me as odd.

Either I had a stroke or you did because I don't understand this at all. How is not requiring teachers to tell a parent if their kid wants to identify as another gender a restriction of parents rights? There's no law mandating teachers to not tell. How does not allowing some psycho to get a book removed from a library because it might hurt their feelings a restriction of parental rights? Again, there's no law requiring all students to check out books from the library about race or gender?

These are only parental rights issues if one is of the belief that conservatives literally don't have the capability to mind their own rough ridin' business. My child checking out Uncle Tom's Cabin from the library literally has nothing to do with anyone who doesn't want to read that book.

These bills don't give any conservative parents any rights they didn't have before, all they do is make it harder for LTGBQ kids to feel like they aren't alone in their experiences.

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Yes the right says they are for parental rights because it sounds way better than "we hate gay people".

And I mentioned the banning of gender affirming care for youth as taking away parental rights, do you not see it that way?

of course it does. That’s why I asked LSOC if that’s what he was talking about in my original response.

[michigancat]

It seems like the left is mostly on the side of restricting parent rights, but I may be forgetting something.

What does this refer to?

What is what referring to?  Left seems like they were on kids’/teachers’ side with the don’t say gay (requiring teachers to tell parents kids’ sexuality/gender stuff), school curricula, books, etc.

Not saying any of that is right or wrong, but in the general cultural dialogue, it seems like the right has mostly been the ones carrying the “parental rights!” banner on most things.  So Stone’s comment struck me as odd.

Either I had a stroke or you did because I don't understand this at all. How is not requiring teachers to tell a parent if their kid wants to identify as another gender a restriction of parents rights? There's no law mandating teachers to not tell. How does not allowing some psycho to get a book removed from a library because it might hurt their feelings a restriction of parental rights? Again, there's no law requiring all students to check out books from the library about race or gender?

These are only parental rights issues if one is of the belief that conservatives literally don't have the capability to mind their own rough ridin' business. My child checking out Uncle Tom's Cabin from the library literally has nothing to do with anyone who doesn't want to read that book.

These bills don't give any conservative parents any rights they didn't have before, all they do is make it harder for LTGBQ kids to feel like they aren't alone in their experiences.

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Yes the right says they are for parental rights because it sounds way better than "we hate gay people".

And I mentioned the banning of gender affirming care for youth as taking away parental rights, do you not see it that way?

of course it does. That’s why I asked LSOC if that’s what he was talking about in my original response.

Lol I missed that because I didn't think it was possible to both recognize the right wants to ban gender affirming care but also think it's the side really in favor of parental rights.

I'd add drag bans as another example of the right taking away parental rights if you want one that's specifically about attacking LGBT people.

[catastrophe]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

https://twitter.com/banalplay/status/1662454674123890688

https://twitter.com/KUTV2News/status/1662204483558858752

Bomb threat was called in by ANTIFA/BLM

[DQ12]

It seems like the left is mostly on the side of restricting parent rights, but I may be forgetting something.

What does this refer to?

What is what referring to?  Left seems like they were on kids’/teachers’ side with the don’t say gay (requiring teachers to tell parents kids’ sexuality/gender stuff), school curricula, books, etc.

Not saying any of that is right or wrong, but in the general cultural dialogue, it seems like the right has mostly been the ones carrying the “parental rights!” banner on most things.  So Stone’s comment struck me as odd.

Either I had a stroke or you did because I don't understand this at all. How is not requiring teachers to tell a parent if their kid wants to identify as another gender a restriction of parents rights? There's no law mandating teachers to not tell. How does not allowing some psycho to get a book removed from a library because it might hurt their feelings a restriction of parental rights? Again, there's no law requiring all students to check out books from the library about race or gender?

These are only parental rights issues if one is of the belief that conservatives literally don't have the capability to mind their own rough ridin' business. My child checking out Uncle Tom's Cabin from the library literally has nothing to do with anyone who doesn't want to read that book.

These bills don't give any conservative parents any rights they didn't have before, all they do is make it harder for LTGBQ kids to feel like they aren't alone in their experiences.

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Yes the right says they are for parental rights because it sounds way better than "we hate gay people".

And I mentioned the banning of gender affirming care for youth as taking away parental rights, do you not see it that way?

of course it does. That’s why I asked LSOC if that’s what he was talking about in my original response.

Lol I missed that because I didn't think it was possible to both recognize the right wants to ban gender affirming care but also think it's the side really in favor of parental rights.

I'd add drag bans as another example of the right taking away parental rights if you want one that's specifically about attacking LGBT people.

Sure. Drag Bans is another good one.  Honestly I don’t really want anything. I was literally just asking what LSOC was referring to because right wing media stakes their flag on “parental rights” so often in the broader cultural conversation. 

[michigancat]

It seems like the left is mostly on the side of restricting parent rights, but I may be forgetting something.

What does this refer to?

What is what referring to?  Left seems like they were on kids’/teachers’ side with the don’t say gay (requiring teachers to tell parents kids’ sexuality/gender stuff), school curricula, books, etc.

Not saying any of that is right or wrong, but in the general cultural dialogue, it seems like the right has mostly been the ones carrying the “parental rights!” banner on most things.  So Stone’s comment struck me as odd.

Either I had a stroke or you did because I don't understand this at all. How is not requiring teachers to tell a parent if their kid wants to identify as another gender a restriction of parents rights? There's no law mandating teachers to not tell. How does not allowing some psycho to get a book removed from a library because it might hurt their feelings a restriction of parental rights? Again, there's no law requiring all students to check out books from the library about race or gender?

These are only parental rights issues if one is of the belief that conservatives literally don't have the capability to mind their own rough ridin' business. My child checking out Uncle Tom's Cabin from the library literally has nothing to do with anyone who doesn't want to read that book.

These bills don't give any conservative parents any rights they didn't have before, all they do is make it harder for LTGBQ kids to feel like they aren't alone in their experiences.

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Yes the right says they are for parental rights because it sounds way better than "we hate gay people".

And I mentioned the banning of gender affirming care for youth as taking away parental rights, do you not see it that way?

of course it does. That’s why I asked LSOC if that’s what he was talking about in my original response.

Lol I missed that because I didn't think it was possible to both recognize the right wants to ban gender affirming care but also think it's the side really in favor of parental rights.

I'd add drag bans as another example of the right taking away parental rights if you want one that's specifically about attacking LGBT people.

Sure. Drag Bans is another good one.  Honestly I don’t really want anything. I was literally just asking what LSOC was referring to because right wing media stakes their flag on “parental rights” so often in the broader cultural conversation.

It isn't that confusing if you are open to the idea that the right wing media is full of crap

[Spracne]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

I wouldn't want curricula to be a parents' rights issue, because what that really means is it's a few whack job mouthbreathers making the decision in large swaths of the country. Go home school your Mongoloid Jr. and let everyone else's kids receive a quality education that allows them to ask questions and challenge preconceptions.

[Justwin]

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Literally education is all about "teaching your child xyz whether you like it or not," and that's true for public and private school. Every state in America has educational standards, things that have to be taught, this is the case even if you home school. Education in America isn't something that individual parents get to dictate, for obvious reasons. The only subjects under attack are ones that could possibly involve LTGBQ or race. These bills that state you can't discuss or teach gender before x grade is also a sham, because they're still discussing gender, unless they're also removing books that have any cisgender mentions, which we know isn't happening.

If you want to make this a parental rights issue then the proposed laws need to be giving the parents the ability to home school without state standards instead of targeting two subsets of a potential subjects and nothing else.

I'm not sure you're familiar with homeschooling laws in all states. What am I required to teach my kids in Kansas when they are homeschooled?

[DQ12]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

I wouldn't want curricula to be a parents' rights issue, because what that really means is it's a few whack job mouthbreathers making the decision in large swaths of the country. Go home school your Mongoloid Jr. and let everyone else's kids receive a quality education that allows them to ask questions and challenge preconceptions.

I’m not super well versed in education topics, but don’t school boards typically deal with curricula materials?  I always thought that was one of their responsibilities.

[Spracne]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

I wouldn't want curricula to be a parents' rights issue, because what that really means is it's a few whack job mouthbreathers making the decision in large swaths of the country. Go home school your Mongoloid Jr. and let everyone else's kids receive a quality education that allows them to ask questions and challenge preconceptions.

I’m not super well versed in education topics, but don’t school boards typically deal with curricula materials?  I always thought that was one of their responsibilities.

That's kinda my point. Have you noticed a recent trend in school boards in certain swaths of the country?

[DQ12]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

I wouldn't want curricula to be a parents' rights issue, because what that really means is it's a few whack job mouthbreathers making the decision in large swaths of the country. Go home school your Mongoloid Jr. and let everyone else's kids receive a quality education that allows them to ask questions and challenge preconceptions.

I’m not super well versed in education topics, but don’t school boards typically deal with curricula materials?  I always thought that was one of their responsibilities.

That's kinda my point. Have you noticed a recent trend in school boards in certain swaths of the country?

So you’d prefer there to be no local influence on what is being taught?

[Spracne]

To the extent having a curriculum is a parents rights issue, it’s really hard to determine whether the left or right are to blame.

I wouldn't want curricula to be a parents' rights issue, because what that really means is it's a few whack job mouthbreathers making the decision in large swaths of the country. Go home school your Mongoloid Jr. and let everyone else's kids receive a quality education that allows them to ask questions and challenge preconceptions.

I’m not super well versed in education topics, but don’t school boards typically deal with curricula materials?  I always thought that was one of their responsibilities.

That's kinda my point. Have you noticed a recent trend in school boards in certain swaths of the country?

So you’d prefer there to be no local influence on what is being taught?

I'd prefer not, tbh. But I might be fine with it if the same Constitutional principles that apply to other governmental action (14th Amendment, in particular) applied to their curricula decisions. Let education professionals do their jobs.

[star seed 7]

Big education is an arm of the demonrat propaganda machine,along with big science, big medicine, and big theme park.

[MakeItRain]

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Literally education is all about "teaching your child xyz whether you like it or not," and that's true for public and private school. Every state in America has educational standards, things that have to be taught, this is the case even if you home school. Education in America isn't something that individual parents get to dictate, for obvious reasons. The only subjects under attack are ones that could possibly involve LTGBQ or race. These bills that state you can't discuss or teach gender before x grade is also a sham, because they're still discussing gender, unless they're also removing books that have any cisgender mentions, which we know isn't happening.

If you want to make this a parental rights issue then the proposed laws need to be giving the parents the ability to home school without state standards instead of targeting two subsets of a potential subjects and nothing else.

I'm not sure you're familiar with homeschooling laws in all states. What am I required to teach my kids in Kansas when they are homeschooled?

Are there not recognized academic and graduation standards? You can teach your kids how to make mac and cheese then consider them high school graduates?

[Cire]

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Literally education is all about "teaching your child xyz whether you like it or not," and that's true for public and private school. Every state in America has educational standards, things that have to be taught, this is the case even if you home school. Education in America isn't something that individual parents get to dictate, for obvious reasons. The only subjects under attack are ones that could possibly involve LTGBQ or race. These bills that state you can't discuss or teach gender before x grade is also a sham, because they're still discussing gender, unless they're also removing books that have any cisgender mentions, which we know isn't happening.

If you want to make this a parental rights issue then the proposed laws need to be giving the parents the ability to home school without state standards instead of targeting two subsets of a potential subjects and nothing else.

I'm not sure you're familiar with homeschooling laws in all states. What am I required to teach my kids in Kansas when they are homeschooled?

Are there not recognized academic and graduation standards? You can teach your kids how to make mac and cheese then consider them high school graduates?

You just teach them how to read, add subtract multiply divide and then send them to work at CULVERS the rest of the day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mocat]

I get you don’t agree with them (I don’t either) but saying “I’m going to teach your child xyz whether you like it or not” is a parental rights issue. “I’m not going to tell you things about your child that you want to know” also implicates parental rights.  “Your child must be vaccinated to do xyz.” Same deal.

These things also implicate a host of other issues (education/general interest/public health/child privacy rights, etc).  It also bears pointing out that “parental rights” take a back seat in like a ton of different situations (see child protection laws!). But in the cultural debate on these issues the right has been the one waving the “parental rights” - which is why LSOC’s comment threw me off.  I didn’t know what else he was referring to.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? Literally education is all about "teaching your child xyz whether you like it or not," and that's true for public and private school. Every state in America has educational standards, things that have to be taught, this is the case even if you home school. Education in America isn't something that individual parents get to dictate, for obvious reasons. The only subjects under attack are ones that could possibly involve LTGBQ or race. These bills that state you can't discuss or teach gender before x grade is also a sham, because they're still discussing gender, unless they're also removing books that have any cisgender mentions, which we know isn't happening.

If you want to make this a parental rights issue then the proposed laws need to be giving the parents the ability to home school without state standards instead of targeting two subsets of a potential subjects and nothing else.

I'm not sure you're familiar with homeschooling laws in all states. What am I required to teach my kids in Kansas when they are homeschooled?

Are there not recognized academic and graduation standards? You can teach your kids how to make mac and cheese then consider them high school graduates?

It varies wildly by state

[michigancat]

a quick google search showed Kansas has no curriculum or diploma requirements, just instruction time requirements. But I'm guessing if the kids want to go to college they'd need a GED. Also I imagine justwin is an expert on the subject but he wasn't very polite about it.

https://www.ksde.org/portals/0/ecsets/factsheets/factsheet-homeschool.pdf

[star seed 7]

Wow, that's totally nuts.

[MakeItRain]

Here's an idiot maga who 100% believes in patient parental choice in education. This stupid rough rider has nine kids, NINE and doesn't know what STEAM in the classroom is! I couldn't stand this jackass when she was on the real world.
https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/1662809368096587777

[Spracne]

But let's let parents direct public education. What could go wrong?

[star seed 7]

Lol saunas

[wetwillie]

When did you motherfuckers sneak an A into STEM.

[star seed 7]

Yeah getting away from arts was what stem was all about

[Justwin]

a quick google search showed Kansas has no curriculum or diploma requirements, just instruction time requirements. But I'm guessing if the kids want to go to college they'd need a GED. Also I imagine justwin is an expert on the subject but he wasn't very polite about it.

https://www.ksde.org/portals/0/ecsets/factsheets/factsheet-homeschool.pdf

In what way was I not polite? My point was primarily that if you know the homeschooling laws in your state, there is a very good chance that you don't know the laws in other states.

You are also required to assess in Kansas. This does not mean taking standardized tests, only that the students are being assessed on what they are supposed to be learning.

Another factoid for education in Kansas is that a kid is not required to attend school (or be homeschooled) until his/her 7th birthday.

In terms of going to college, a GED is not necessarily required. A homeschooled student is effectively going to be presenting a diploma from an unaccredited school in Kansas (that's what all homeschools are). You will need to be able to convince whoever (or whatever college) that this diploma is worth something. You can do that with a GED perhaps. It's also possible to present the work a student did as evidence of how they were educated. I also imagine that if you scored a pretty highly on the ACT or SAT, that would be convincing as well.